Krzyzewskiville

I haven't read this whole thread, but to get back to the first post, I think the gist of what they're saying is that there is an offer made, acceptance of the offer, and consideration sufficient to make the tech deal a binding contract. Is that correct? [/e-lawyered] EDIT: OOC: I was trying to sort of make a real-world law joke here to lighten the mood... but it fell flat. Probably because it's a Contracts joke.

I haven't read this whole thread, but to get back to the first post, I think the gist of what they're saying is that there is an offer made, acceptance of the offer, and consideration sufficient to make the tech deal a binding contract. Is that correct? [/e-lawyered]

[quote name='Instr' timestamp='1329923124' post='2925563'] Wait, let me get this right here. MK saying mean things about people on the Internet is worse than NPO rolling alliances with fabricated CBs? [/quote] I would say so, only because at least the fabricated CBs were basically an IC way of saying "We want you destroyed to maintain our dominance." That's better, in my book, than attacking the character of the guy behind the computer for the sake of some laughs and just making someone feel bad. It's different in my book. That's not to say that some of the things that NPO did weren't as bad, but you're comparing apples and oranges. Tracking rerolls across IPs has always been a huge problem in my book.

Congratulations, my friend! Sorry to see Mary step down, but her shoes are being filled by a great guy.

I guess I'm just not content to hear "We've always done it that way" and say that means it works and there isn't a better way.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1326494719' post='2899068'] VIII. the game is six years old and hasn't changed fundamentally at all and there is nothing that can really be done about that at least by us [/quote] The mechanics of the game haven't changed, but the community and the politics have changed plenty. If we blame the mechanics of the game for the community's problems, that's just ridiculous. [quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1326494896' post='2899070'] and here we go again [/quote] I know, right? I feel like this is at least well thought-out.

So, I wasn't really planning on posting anything like this, in spite of having these thoughts for a while, but it feels appropriate right now, given everything that's going on right now. Plus, I'm stuck in peace mode these days and bored, and I read so much crap on IRC and the OWF that I feel like we need to address it. This community is destroying itself in several ways, and I have 7 points that the community can/should address in order to make this game more enjoyable for all. You may not like all of my ideas, and you may believe that they come from a particular political viewpoint/alliance, but the reality is that more people in CN agree with (at least some of) them than you think, including leadership of "powerful" alliances. They may not be willing to admit it for a variety of reasons, primarily political. [b]I. Scrap the entire treaty system[/b] In my mind, we should either be fully allied or not at all allied. If you stand by someone, it's unconditional. Otherwise, you don't sign a treaty with them. With all of these "optional" treaties it's just crap, because you don't know who you can or cannot trust among allies, and isn't that a problem? The expanding treaty web has led every war to become either a global war or a tiny war. That means that alliances who are stuck in the middle try and stop every situation from blowing up, and it's just bad. The less treaties you have, the less being stuck in the middle that you are, and the more likely people will be willing to go to war instead of just sitting out. [b]II. A return to spying[/b] It may be frowned upon, but let's face it, it was the onus for so much war and action in the old days. I don't know why spying became so frowned upon among everyone and why spying has stopped, but it's obviously hurt things. We had such a pretense against spying and it was !@#$%^&*. Let's recognize it as a fully legitimate tactic and let it cause things to blow up. If I was a leader of any alliance, I would be sending out spies to gather intel on my enemes. Why? Because it's the best way to learn. Espionage works to get info and, especially, to stir things up. In my mind, the reason for this is the loss of influence of the !@#$%* players, as that game has/had a long tradition of spying. [b]III. Stop assessing reparations to losers of wars[/b] People keep fighting forever because they fear these. Once they're assessed, people are stuck paying them off for months and months at a time. That takes them out of the politics and keeps their allies from wanting to act. It slows down the game to a stand-still. In the real world, punitive reparations make more sense (I'd personally beg to differ, but I'm more Wilsonian in that regard and I can understand the merits). They're a deterrant, they're a way to keep a nation down. In this game, they do the same thing. Unfortunately, in a game where we want war and political movement for our fun, what's the point of them? More wars and more movement is fun. Even small-scale wars, ones that don't become gobal, are great. (Note: I'm a law student, we talked a lot about the purposes of punitive damages vs. compensatory damages in my 1L Torts class, and a lot of what we discussed rang true even in a game like this. That being said, I would still consider compensatory reparations to be extreme in a game where building and rebuilding happen very quickly) With all this being said: I can absolutely understand how punitive reparations, or the threat of them, could be a good way to get an alliance who is losing to make a peace agreement. But even then, I'm not so sure. [b]IV. Stop amassing huge warchests[/b] Without punitive reparations, there's not as much need to fight a war for months and months at a time. What the hell will you do with a $5b warchest? Sure, you use it for rebuilding, but realistically, we all just use it as an excuse to be able to fight a 6-month long war. Guess what: That's not fun, either! [b]V. Stop ordering your members into peace mode at the outset of a war[/b] If you're in a war, don't be a wimp. Your members, top to bottom, want to do something. After a month of just being in PM the whole time, they're bored. If you're building, building, building, and then don't even get to fight, you are going to want to quit the game. [b]VI. Increase artful and thought-out propaganda[/b] Let's face it, we're running out of good stuff. We come up with the first thing and just latch onto it. We use things that have been used about people's non-CN life against them. We can do better. Instead of the usual "ZOMG X ALLIANCE SUCKS" we can actually come up with fun things. As much as many of us all hated the old NPO propaganda team (Z'ha'dum, Josef Thorne, etc.), they at least were having more intelligent propaganda wars than we have now. Better than the style of propaganda we've got going these days, where everything devolves into ad hominem attacks, stereotypes of alliances from years ago that aren't true anymore, or veiled OOC attacks on people. I don't know about you, but I miss the days when there were at least semi-intelligent propaganda wars on the OWF and on IRC. [b]VII. Have fun and stop taking this game so seriously[/b] This is a GAME. Let's enjoy it and allow others to enjoy it, too. You CAN have IC animosity with someone and have a cordial OOC relationship.

It took me 5 minutes to figure out exactly why you were the one to jump into this war, onto NPO specifically, rather than Polar's allies countering specifically. The strategy is smart, I'll give you that, but if it took 5 minutes for me to unravel it, it's incredibly transparent (OOC: I've been out of CN for 3 months). I appreciate the move, because I recognize that it would've worked perfectly in this world 4 years ago. Unfortunately, Fark, it is not 2007 any more, and so a move this transparent will not work out the way you so intend because alliances now have this habit of ignoring one of two conflicting treaties in a war to do what they want, or simply ignoring the first treaty activated in order to be on the side they prefer. I'll give you kudos for having the cajones to make this move, though.

Dilber. He was the mastermind behind the brilliant post-GWI foreign affairs strategy of the NPO which led them to be able to fight hard in GW2 and then decisively finish off Aegis in GW3. Also, he's just an awesome dude.

So, I just (a little earlier today) deleted my nation. CN has been a fun/up-and-down ride for 4 and a half years, through the end of high school and all of my college years, but I decided that it's time to cut the cord completely, and just get out before something pulls me back in. I'm starting a new phase of my life with law school in about a month, and cannot afford a distraction like this game to be in my life while I'm trying to work my ass off in school. I guess that I'm now one of those old farts of CN, which is a bit crazy to me. I'd join the bandwagon of the "This game sucks now" people but honestly, thinking about it, it really doesn't. Any damage or any lessening of standards/morals/whatever else has been self-inflicted by the larger community that we all seem to love so much, that keeps us in even when we don't want out. Don't think about what the past was like when saying the game sucks, focus on making the current times enjoyable for everyone, even your enemy. This game was a ton of fun for me during most of my time here, in spite of some unpleasant events, because of the community, not just within my alliance but within the game. I'm a lot more likely to forget the somewhat bad stuff from this game, but I'll remember the good and the fun that I had. I'm gonna try to give some shoutouts to people, but honestly, I know that I'll miss some people. Apologies in advance Sky - You are one of the nicest/best person in this game, bar none. I hope your "vacation" from being active has been fun. Best of luck on the other side. TOP - Roll Polar. Please. Seriously. You're the best alliance that I've ever been in, and I hope you guys can keep strong through this stuff. Longbowe - Stop (seemingly) going out of your way to be a troll. People do actually like you. I like you. Just not when you're becoming way too obnoxious. Richard Rahl - Hang in there, and keep fighting the good fight, buddy. Waterana - Sorry we lost touch after my fallout with NPO. Hope all keeps going well with you. The rest of the Oceanus crew - O_o/ Jazzie - One of the best Legion-turned-NPO scum out there <3 Brehon and baka - You both, too. Triyun and Dilber - Thanks for giving me a shot in NPO at the FA stuff. Coursca (If you're still around) - Where did you go? Seriously? I liked you. You were a good person. Maybe I'll see you on the other side and not know it. OMFG, Argent, MK - You are awesome alliances. Stay awesome. Anyone else who I might've missed, I'm sorry if I did. Take care, stay awesome, etc etc etc. There are way too many people who have had a great impact on my CN experience who I cannot remember after 4.5 years, and a lot who have been there and had smaller impacts on my time. Moldavi and the other Tar Hole fans here - Go to hell, Carolina!

[quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1310132607' post='2752416'] While this is completely fine, why the pony show telling us you all wanted to talk? [spoiler] [20:32] <~killer04|Legion|MoD> So the cancellation is being held off on? 01[20:35] <Brehon[NPO]> Okay as I understand you all want us to wait until tomorrow so we can talk. As I understand the treaty notice = 48 countdown. So we can start the countdown, but we can also still talk. Then we can take it from there [20:36] <~killer04|Legion|MoD> Ok 01[20:36] <Brehon[NPO]> We had no intention on posting a cancellation until the 48 hour timer expires [20:37] <~killer04|Legion|MoD> Ok [20:37] <~killer04|Legion|MoD> Would you please be able to leave this chan for a little bit, that way I can bring some other people in [/spoiler] If you wanted to post it all you had to do was ask /shrugs. [/quote] +1 Respect for Pacifica. Good job in cutting a tie with a terrible alliance.

Congrats, both of you! Great treaty between 2 great alliances.

Congratulations! Good to see 2 of our great allies upgrade their treaty with each other.

Congrats to all of you!

Our Uranium/Wheat trade just got deleted for inactivity... 25 days. Ugh.

Congratulations to both of you. Two great alliances/allies of our are now allied to each other. Always a good thing

Diomede and SanderP are in gov? Oh great Admin, help us all. We're all doomed!

Paradox Vult! It's been an honor serving in this alliance.

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1305894466' post='2715488'] I think this is just Polaris point of view. It is hard to hate an alliance that came from Pacifica’s womb. [/quote] You have no idea how wrong you are. There was a time, right before the WotC, that Polar surpassed MK as the #1 enemy within NPO. The IOs and some members were involved in a covert campaign to spread the truth of Polar's NPO-undermining actions, and 2 members of that campaign betrayed the IO's plan to Sponge. It was pretty nasty around that time. The two alliances had only Moo and Sponge talking to each other, which was horrible, because they hated each other after Sponge tried to overthrow Moo. It was bad. It's lessened a lot since Karma, though.

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1305862110' post='2715316'] Then they will want fire and blood. Then you will want fire and blood. Then they will want fire and blood again. Then you will want fire and blood again. You attacking Polaris out of the blue will solve nothing. [/quote] Y'know, I pretty much agree with this, at least on an OOC level. Of course, I don't have nearly the level of hate for Polar that some of our members who were here for Bipolar do. Had I been here for Grub's backstabbing, I probably would hate your alliance far more. See... I was in the government a few months before, and every attempt from both sides to reconcile seemed sincere. Was I surprised that Crymson's plan to get NpO to backstab an ally failed? Nope. Not in the least. But I am surprised to hear Polar members telling me that they were basically pulling the long con on us. Because that is complete and utter crap. There was no long con, there was Grub finding himself in an opportunistic situation and taking advantage of it. Again, on an OOC level, I generally find that letting your actions in a game be dictated by revenge and anger is stupid. And so I play that way. I couldn't care less about Polar. Because people and alliances who act like Polar has tend to burn on their own accord. We don't need to roll you guys for you to get rolled. Every alliance eventually loses a war due to their own hubris. We certainly have.[/OOC]

GATO v. NPO - The biggest one, to me. This defined my first months in this game. NpO/NPO v. NAAC - And yet... a former NAAC leader became NpO emperor. Still, this was huge for so, so long. Legion v. Valhalla - How quickly this is forgotten. This one was terrible for so long. BAPS v. MK - So much vitriol on both sides, years later. GPA v. Itself - No control. No ability to say no to members. Failure to recognize their fundamental problems in their alliance's being. They didn't deserve to get rolled, but they were certainly their own worst enemy. IRON v. ODN v. FOK - A long time ago now, but this was a huge problem back in the day. The color wars of yore.

I've got Fish/Pigs and am looking for a TC. This looks like a good one to me.

Congratulations to all of you for this.

[Cattle] [Pigs] - SeasonsOfLove [Iron] [Sugar] [Spices] [Uranium] [Aluminum] [Fish] - SeasonsOfLove [Lumber] [Marble] [Water] [Wheat] Bonus Resources: [Fast Food] [Beer] [Construction] I'd prefer to keep this on orange, but I'm willing to switch to another color for a solid set of trades.

I've got Fish/Pigs. EDIT: Whoa. Never mind. Sorry.