Cenk Uygur
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Posts posted by Cenk Uygur
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Congratulations to Blackatron on finally escaping! It's been fun working with you.
Congratulations to Maine on his new role (but commiserations on how much of a time sink it will be for you)! TTK will be well served with you in charge of FA.
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3 hours ago, wes the wise said:
NADC Elections are notorious for being intense, but this is something different. Did someone leak internal NADC discussions when they realized they would lose the election? If my assumption is correct, then I respect the right of an alliance to discuss ANYTHING they please in private. Someone give me a rundown of what's going on.
Yes, you are correct in your assumption. We are almost certain that Bernkastel leaked copies (screenshots or other replications) of posts made during an election campaign when it was clear he was going to lose. The copies were provided to Polar/Oculus. Oculus, led by Polar, used it as an excuse to declare war on the NADC.
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2 hours ago, Noctis Lucis Caelum said:
When their response was,
"The NADC I lead will answer this attack and resist Oculus by all means available to us, not just for ourselves but to provide an example to others that Oculus must be resisted for the good of Planet Bob."
I expected they would likely activate every MDP they could, but seems like they weren't able to activate any. Had this war started when they were better prepared, the war could have been very different.
If NADC can't convince their mutual defense allies they weren't plotting against NpO & this is fully defensive for them; then I'm inclined to believe they were up to something and got caught before being better prepared.
You assume that we have asked them to assist.
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13 hours ago, Devialance said:
Then WHY did you use returning to blue as part of your campaign to regain power?, I personally do not understand it, if i felt that NpO was going to roll my alliance if we went to blue and i was running to be the leader the last thing i would do is base my whole job on moving back to blue, before you say thats not all it was, every leader wants to setup trades, tech deals and so on, but to make a point of returning to blue KNOWING what could happen is just foolish in truth.It's curious to me that one would blame the victim rather than the perpetrator of unwarranted violence. Nevertheless, as I said, Polaris would use any excuse to beat us up, it was only a matter of time. I'm sure if it had not been this, something else would have been "manufactured" to ensure war.
Please bear in mind also that my posts were made as a candidate running for leadership in a democratic alliance. I am obligated to inform the members of my alliance what my objectives and guiding principles are. It is true that there is always a risk that someone will leak internal discussions but the NADC has been of late quite disciplined in this regard - that is until quite recently.
In regards to why I felt returning to the Blue Team was important, I note that our alliance has been for the vast majority of its existence a Blue Team alliance. The NADC has a strong community that is proud of its history and heritage. I felt that a negotiated return to the Blue Team would help restore part of our heritage, which was lost when we were forced off the Blue Team. Bear in mind that, again, this was not official policy and was yet to be discussed by our alliance.
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All you have done is invited in the cowards and the dishonourable. They should find a suitable home in Polaris.
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From what I can see, most of it is more of the same. With respect, I am not going to waste time responding to those.
On 12/08/2017 at 8:12 PM, Morphine said:Without releasing anything too sensitive,
I'll quote Aurelius from the NADC forums
"To clarify it is not OPSEC, but if seen by polars people it has the potential to be problematic. My concern is they will react negatively to this when we are not ready"
So back to my original statement "YOU (NADC Govt) knew it would be a problem. YOU (NADC Govt) continued on with the plan regardless of the fact that you knew it would cause problems. Now your pissed because Polar did indeed react negatively to this? Or are you pissed simply because you "weren't ready"?
If you're going to quote, please don't cherry pick. Quote the next part too.
Aurelius said:The more general point is that I think internal discussions should remain internal (again, a return to the Blue Team objective is not official policy yet and is merely the expressed intention of one candidate). That is the attitude I have always taken, both in the past and going into the future. While it is not required by law, it does seem to me to be a natural courtesy.
Without a doubt, I made a mistake. But not the mistake you think. I made the mistake of thinking Bernkastel would be a gracious candidate in defeat. I did not know the true nature of his character.What I did know was that even the merest hint that I wished for us to return to the Blue Team was a pretext to declare war on us, regardless of the fact that: (a) it was not yet official policy; (b) it was not in breach of the agreement; and (c) even if I had adopted the most conciliatory means, they would assume hostile action was the only way we sought to achieve that end and pounce upon us. This, in fact, turned out to be prescient.To avoid this end, what I had hoped to do was to lay the ground work to negotiate. First, I had to determine if my people even wanted to return to Blue. As leader, I don't force my views on others but I do have the responsibility for starting the conversation. If my alliance had said it was not worth investing our time, I would have moved onto other things (in fact, other things had been prioritised - trade circles, tech clubs, etc.) If they had said yes, I knew that I had to negotiate with the right people in Polaris. I knew there had to be reasonable, decent people in Polaris - it's just the few prominent bad apples that give you all a bad name.In short, I'm not pissed. I knew Polaris would use any excuse to beat us up was a possibility - if it hadn't been this, it would have been something else. Polaris simply confirmed what I suspected. What I hope is others, both those inside Oculus and outside of it, see the situation for what it is - that Polaris has broken our peace agreement in its haste to find any excuse at all to hit us - and the kind of threat Oculus represents to all - by giving Polaris the military backing and carte blanche it needs to recklessly pursue its objectives, irrespective of what is fact, right or even acceptable behaviour - and indeed, to the continuing vibrancy of Planet Bob. -
Forgive me, gentlemen (and gentlewomen, if there are any). It's been a busy weekend. I'll respond to posts that raise new issues as I can.
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Acknowledging your posts. Don't have time to post at the moment. Will do so when I can.
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5 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:
You literally admitted to campaigning a 'move back to blue' slogan of which your colleagues have denied for weeks... even though it was already known.
Incorrect. As far as I know, the denials were in relation to whether it was official NADC policy. That is true.
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8 minutes ago, The Big Bad said:
Please. How stupid do you think the citizens of Planet Bob are? You do not use a phrases like redressing the wrongs of Polaris against you and restoring your honour and mean negotiations. If you had spoken of restoring lost ties and letting bygones be bygones with Polaris then you could claim you wanted to talk. No, you chose your words, and NADC voted for you. Do you honestly think anybody believes the you meant talk when you pointed right at Polaris and announced you wanted to redress wrongs and restore honour. So welcome to your chance to redress those wrongs and restore your honor. The least you can do is man up and own it. Or is even that to much to expect from you?
Even on your interpretation of my words, which I dispute, it's quite a stretch to go from that to "military action by the NADC imminent" or even "the NADC poses a threat".
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8 minutes ago, Lord Hitchcock said:
Considering this plot was in motion, as a few alliances have since sold you out, have you ever even contacted Eatum about the potential to move back to blue?
No plot. No machinations. As for the rest, see my above post. We have a democratic process in our alliance, not a dictatorship. Nothing had been decided.
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1 hour ago, AlmightyGrub said:
Aurelius and the assorted members of the NADC:
I won't pretend to understand the NADC mindset, because quite frankly I considered you to be incompetent at the time of the Charles Isolationist era and I have watched you slowly decline into almost irrelevance since the first time I rolled your alliance before update. Berkanstel was the first Sec-Gen in the history of NADC who actually approached Polar with a hope to mending the damages between us. He was the first and only actual diplomat you have ever had. He was actually doing some great work on your behalf. Being in a neutral position towards your traditional enemy when you are at a massive disadvantage is IMO extremely desirable.
Any idiot can go to somewhere that is friendly to you and post pictures of cats, it takes someone with dedication and vision to realize that the way forwards, though difficult, is worth the effort. I find it ironic therefore that my greatest diplomatic efforts have always been with the people who hate me the most and that those efforts have often resulted in long term relationships including treaties. If you think the issues between Polar and NADC were as great as the issues between Non Grata or Pacifica and Polar you are delusional.
NADC missed an opportunity to change their entire outlook in a positive way, instead voting for regression to the isolationist alliance that finds itself being rolled way too easily yet again. The fact that you allowed someone to piss in your pocket so deliberately and then elect that person on a platform of $%&@ Polar finds you in the unenviable position of being nowhere with no one yet again. Your allies will make pragmatic choices now, once upon a time they would have flooded these boards with condemnations whilst they readied their war machines to defend you. Your allies are not worth a pinch of !@#$, you should cancel all your treaties and not bother pretending.
Berkanstel may well have committed some acts of treason against NADC, but you screwed yourselves when you decided that orange wasn't good enough for you. Blue is the natural home of the NpO therefore not the NADC. Seriously, if you were in doubt, playing semantics wasn't the way forward. You accepted the term in full knowledge of what it meant, right or wrong in your mind is of no consequence to me.
Aurelius, I look forward to your surrender when the time comes or alternatively as you suggest in the OP, your disbandment. Making ''public'' announcements of your agenda before you are ready was certainly an interesting way to get elected. I wonder if the guys losing their entire supply of infrastructure and technology with their pathetic war chests failing to buy them out of the mess you are in will be so excited next time you beat the drum and wave the flag? Some lessons are learned the hard way, your days as Sec Gen are numbered.
Fight as hard as you like, please do, I am tired of people just giving up at the DOW. Maybe there is some respect to be salvaged, even if it is only your own self-respect. Or maybe dissolving your alliance and letting your members find a competent alliance to live out their remaining days on Bob might actually be the way forward.
If you are going to have a plan, make it a good one.
In summary, join or die. As expected.
See you out on the field.
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5 hours ago, Immortan Junka said:
It's one thing to claim the moral high ground, as I often do, when there were no plans for aggression from the defending side. But the rhetoric falls short when a victorious political campaign calls for the retaking of one's perceived rightful place on the blue team (in violation of a peace agreement), and taking revenge on Polar. Polar joining Oculus was a masterful move by both parties, and certainly could be considered the treaty of the year, as now the newly augmented hegemony can root out mutual threats and put to rest earlier notions of a revolt against the dominant bloc or their supporters.
Oculus is certainly alot more reasonable, in my opinion, than the post-Karma arrangement that so many today still laud. The Imperium, after eight alliance wars in two years time, finally has a chance at real political security in an age filled with chaos and barbarism. Polar's CB here is stronger than nearly all of the wars waged against us.
So while I can respect the fighting spirit expressed by the OP, I think it is misguided. Best of luck to NADC, and a salute to Polar.
See my original post.
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7 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:
If my "term" was unclear to you in the first place then perhaps you should have clarified with me personally before you began beating your drum.
You know now deep down in your little e-lawyer heart what I meant by vacate. You chose to return to power on the basis of you being the strong leader who could address evil Polar. It requires no huge jump in logic to see the path required to accomplish your election promises.
When coupled with other information received it is clear that the NADC had once again found itself led by someone who had their ability and ambition confused.
I am intrigued that "dissolve " is in your vocabulary but if you insist I,for one, would not try to dissuade you. I doubt this matter is that extreme but I do note that you are prone to hyperbole in all your statements.
Good luck. You know where I am if you want to debate the validity of the word vacate.
Drum beating? Hardly.
I am sure Polaris (and, by extension, Oculus, who seem intent on following Polaris mindlessly) would love to draw the inference that the NADC had a nefarious plan. I refer to my original post, which addresses the issues. I also note that anything further I say will not persuade you. Again, I'm responding mainly for the benefit of the decent few who care about proper CB's.
Oh, by the by - please, if you're going to insult me, don't just call me an e-lawyer. Just call me "lawyer".
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7 hours ago, White Chocolate said:
Then fight. I am not judging NADC for doing what it thinks is in it's interests.
Just do not pretend that it is somehow for the greater health and welfare of Planet Bob. Not NADC's to decide nor snyone eles. Leave to Admin that which belongs to Admin.
You give my words great import and significant if you think I can decide anything on behalf of anyone else, let alone Planet Bob.
Briefly, a few things make me think I am right in my opinion and the current foreign affairs situation of Planet Bob is different to the past:
- There is marked increase in disinterest in the game. The situation is not getting better - it's getting worse.
- This is based on a variety of factors. The stagnancy of the game is one. That's not a new problem. But the other, perhaps more important factor, is the foreign affairs situation in Planet Bob and Oculus' conception has contributed significantly to that - things have pretty much frozen in Planet Bob foreign relations wise since its birthing.
- Phoney CB's have already been part of this game. But there was a time where people actually used to care about whether a CB was legitimate or not. It seems we're past the time where a valid CB, if not required, is valued. The uncertainty that brings to the game only makes it less attractive to those already playing the game and is likely to discourage new players from staying.
Now, unlike the real world where one can't unplug, people can leave this game. Are we at the end point of the game? Maybe not. I'm sure it will continue to exist. But the vibrant, dare I say, interesting game and community it once was? Unlikely.
Oculus is and will be a significant contributing factor to the demise of this game and its community.
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7 hours ago, Neo Uruk said:
They're littered throughout the initial DoW, mostly through the first couple pages
To be fair, I'm assuming they're direct quotes; they may have some paraphrasing. I haven't seen screenshots of NADC forums or anything :V
Until I see a screenshot rather than a paraphrasing of remarks made by myself or anyone else for that matter, please forgive me if I refuse to address baseless accusations.
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7 hours ago, The Big Bad said:
How would one go about, redressing the wrongs somebody had committed against you? Talk? Candy and flowers?
Actually, yes. Negotiations was in fact my preferred course. A workable agreement could have been reached. That said, knowing the character of Oculus' leadership, it could be said that such negotiations would have been doomed from the start. In any event, the option of negotiation is no longer available to us. Oculus saw to that.
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1 hour ago, Neo Uruk said:
ok now address all the direct quotes they pulled referring to war with polar
More than happy to but could you link me to the posts containing such direct quotes? I have neither the time nor the inclination to wade through the cesspool of the OWF.
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RECOGNITION OF HOSTILITIESThe NADC recognises a state of hostilities with Oculus.
I wish to briefly comment on Oculus' purported CB.13 hours ago, EaTeMuP said:After months of investigative work, and help from informants that took plea deals, a case was submitted to the Grand Jury. A true bill was returned for the indictment of NADC on the charges of "Conspiracy to Break Terms" . Peace Agreement
NADC has been found guilty by The Senate and People of Oculus, and sentencing shall commence.
Don't bother with an appeal. There is already precedent set by the 9th Circuit Court of Bob that campaign rhetoric can be used to establish intent. While we understand the sensitivity of your plans, official policy yet or not, we noticed, and yes it is problematic.
You 'Blue' yourself.
Signed,
The Senate and People of Oculus
The "informant" referred to above is - undoubtedly - Bernkastel. Leaking is by no means a new phenomenon in Planet Bob. But to leak because you were about to lose an election? That’s dummy spitting. It’s risible, rather than anger inducing - to be pitied, rather than despised. I name this person for the benefit of other alliances. The NADC made the mistake of providing a home for this person. Do not repeat our mistake.
While I am reluctant to speak of internal matters of my alliance, it is necessary to address the innuendo and rumour that Oculus seeks to rely upon as if it were some legitimate CB.
Do I deny that one of my campaign promises was to seek a return to the Blue Team? Certainly not.
But is it a legitimate cause for war? I say not. I address now those who are still concerned with legitimate and genuine CB’s - a perhaps dwindling breed.
First, that pledge is not inconsistent with the terms that were imposed. The term imposed on NADC by Oculus in relation to the Blue Team one year ago was:On 25/08/2016 at 1:20 PM, Lord of Darkness said:The North Atlantic Defense Coalition agrees to depart from the blue team within 40 days.
This was the only term imposed on the NADC in relation to the Blue Team, and we complied that term. We are not in breach of that agreement.Secondly, ventilating the prospect of a return to the Blue Team in internal discussions is not inconsistent with the terms imposed upon us.
Thirdly, it was never the official policy of the NADC to seek a return to the Blue Team. My remarks were made in the context of an election campaign, and not as an announcement of policy. Our alliance has (much to the irritation of Bernkastel) a consultative and democratic element and we discuss things such as foreign affairs before a formal course of action is adopted.
Fourthly, even if it had been adopted as the formal policy of the NADC, we could have pursued these objectives in a manner that was entirely consistent with a broader interpretation of the term. Negotiations with Oculus could have been undertaken with a view to seeking a return to the Blue Team. There is nothing in the above terms that stops us from asking.
Now had Oculus been really concerned about deciding what we had intended, an easy course of action was available to them - ask us. Other means to peaceably settle the matter were available to Oculus.
But, of course, this assumes that Oculus was really concerned with peaceably settling issues. Quite clearly, genuine CB's are quite irrelevant to Occulus' intentions. They wanted to roll us, plain and simple.For Oculus have, in essence, the mentality of the schoolyard bully. For them, might equals right.Many have flocked to join them. Indeed, that was the course that Bernkastel seemed intent for us prior to his swift execution at the polls. I can understand the appeal of such an approach. It’s nice being on the winning, dominant side - to be in the good graces of the powerful lest they turn their ire upon you.But my instincts scream against giving in too easily to those who would thrash others into submission just because they can. Such people must be resisted, even if it means taking a pummelling.In a very real sense, Oculus represents the death of this game. Their stranglehold and hegemony over Planet Bob means opposition is stamped out at even the merest sigh of a perceived threat. This leads to people giving up, for they view the dominance of Oculus as inevitable.The NADC I lead will answer this attack and resist Oculus by all means available to us, not just for ourselves but to provide an example to others that Oculus must be resisted for the good of Planet Bob. We will suffer heavy losses. We will probably lose. We may even dissolve our alliance. But I am sure that others, who share our values and care about the future of Planet Bob, will on the struggle against the brutish domination that Oculus represents.Oft-quoted and perhaps lessened in potency due to that, the sentiments expressed below nevertheless reflect mine exactly:
QuoteWe shall go on to the end, ... we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender...
Aurelius
Secretary General of the North Atlantic Defense Coalition -
NADC GOVERNMENT FOR 2017/3
Recently, the North Atlantic Defense Coalition conducted elections for the third term of 2017. I was duly elected Secretary General.
It has been over two years since I was last leader of this fine alliance. I look forward to all the challenges that are involved in leading it once more.
I am pleased to announce the alliance’s government for the third term of 2017.
Secretary General – Aurelius
Deputy Secretary General – Chunky Monkey
Internal Affairs Minister – Chunky Monkey
Deputy Internal Affairs Minister – Justinian the Mighty
Foreign Affairs Minister – Aurelius
Deputy Foreign Affairs Minister – Edward Reed
Military Operations Commander – O0OO00
Finance Minister – Gandorian
Deputy Finance Minister – Scotia the Brave
Deputy Finance Minister – TheAmericanRepublic
Education Minister – GreyOps
I look forward to a productive term with this team.
Aurelius
Secretary General
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Vale, RnR!
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11 minutes ago, Neo Uruk said:
somebody for the love of god bring back forced disbandment or make these guys go full radio silence at least
Quelle surprise.
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Hail Atlantica!
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I suspect all of this just the usual OWF trolling but I'll bite (I've got time) ...
13 hours ago, Auctor said:This is the kind of desperation NADC engages in. Don't address the substance, just insult the messenger. It's just sad and Blue deserves better. This is why I thank God for Almighty Grub.
Up until that point, I assure you, if anything of substance had been written, a response would have been made ages ago. Unfortunately, almost none of what has been written about the NADC is based on fact and I suspect those posting care very little about fact. It's very Trumpesque. I applaud you.
12 hours ago, Auctor said:A lot of outrageous claims have been made about NADC's supposed commitment to Blue Unity. I think it's important that we examine the facts.
On November 9th, 2008, NADC was a founding member of the Agora Accords. It was an organization whose sole purpose was to disrupt Blue sphere and to enslave large parts of it to the will of Red. Are these the kind of people you want running around in your Blue? I've never once heard them apologize. If they were to recant their involvement now in the heat of the campaign, I think we'd all know it was simple pandering for votes. NADC sees nothing wrong with a doctrine that says not all Blue people are created equal. I find that disgusting.
We've had enough of NADC's partisan backbiting and obstructionism. NADC wants this to be about the politics of division. I'm telling you right now, this should absolutely not be about Red States and Blue States. It should just be about Blue States. And also some Pink States and some Brown States.
What you've written about the NADC's participation in the Agora Accords does not equate with my understanding of that period of our history, which I readily acknowledge was well before my time and therefore my understanding derives from recorded history. Even if one were to give you the benefit of the doubt and concede your point (which I do not), it has been seven and a half years since then. All of the people in government at that time have moved on and I suspect the membership has almost completely changed since then. Alliances, as we all know well, do change.
As to your last point, the only ones who I see trying to cause division are those who seek to cast invective against the NADC with no basis.
4 hours ago, AlmightyGrub said:There was no failure in being attacked by overwhelming odds and managing to achieve peace within three week LH. Some might even say my diplomatic and humble approach to negotiations prevented a much worse result.
I think you are truly confused and now grabbing entirely at tenuous straws.
It is truly this simple, CCC and NADC can vote for whoever they wish, however they are missing a great opportunity to bring Blue together in a co-operative atmosphere. A vote for Grub is truly a vote for stability, for fairness and for the best interests of Blue. You will of course recall when you yourself were sanctioned by the senator from the NADC, they passed the buck around and around in an never ending circle refusing to be accountable for their own actions. I have always been direct and clear about sanctions on Blue, the NADC has shown they are unreliable at best and sycophantic at worse. Anyone asking at anytime can get NADC to sanction someone, justified or otherwise.
As we all know a sanction just doesn't impact the poor victim of the unjustified act, but also his trade partners, who must all suffer the consequence of the follies of the NADC and their very questionable allies. What will happen when Polaris inevitably finds itself at war with an ally of the NADC, will we too find ourselves under threat or random acts.
Polaris has been patient with our little blue neighbors but they are hyper aggressive and hyper sensitive these days. Or perhaps since their ally disbanded they are lacking the same courage? I will have to examine the data to confirm but someone seems less chirpy these days.
10/10 for creative writing.
For the record, since there's been a lot of disinformation, I've not received any requests for a sanction nor have I made a sanction against someone as far as I remember. If you want a sanction from me, I suggest you contact me directly. My sanction policy is pretty simple - in circumstances where there has been some provable wrong committed by someone on the blue team, which cannot be mediated so as to avoid the use of sanctions (which, as you've pointed out above, are disruptive to trade and innocent parties), I will grant that sanction. What you can also expect from me is procedural fairness - I'll give both sides an opportunity to be heard and to respond to claims made.
As for my voting on policies, my view is utilitarian - "the greatest amount of good for the greatest number". True it is that it's not always easy to apply broad principles to specific policies, and it may often be a matter of impression what satisfies that principle, but at least members of the blue team know what I stand and aim for.
That's pretty much all I intend to say in reply to this thread. Any other questions, feel free to PM me. Otherwise, peace out.
NADC-Oculus peace
in Alliance Announcements (IC)
Posted · Edited by Cenk Uygur
NADC and Oculus agree to end hostilities on the following terms:
Signed on behalf of the North Atlantic Defense Coalition,
Aurelius
Signed on behalf of Oculus,
Almighty Grub