Unknown Smurf

If anyone is curious: CN wise, I am always having fun. Maybe not winning, but I do stick around for reasons. The problem is that there is so much 'dead' (politically speaking) NS tied to Oculus that any real opposition is impossible.

Well said and exactly what I have inferred is the overall thought process of Oculus Sarkin. The problem with this logic though is that it (Oculus Sphere, not just Oculus itself) does stop other alliances from having a proactive agenda. There are many alliances that would be aggressive and take out the party that aggrieved them if they did not have to worry about being squashed by the world police. There are a lot of micro conflicts that are stopped before they even get started because there are very few alliances that will go to war because they won't end up fighting the actual alliance that they have a problem with.

Honestly OOC, I'm interested in the argument. How does Oculus existing not tie up the game? How can an active/competent person/alliance actually get a group together to oppose Oculus when every potential alliance is allied to Oculus and will go running to Oculus to get Invicta/MI6/Polar/NSO/whoever rolled for plotting as soon as it happens? The problem isn't just the Oculus alliances, but that each and every one of them has a sphere of alliances that will report everything to them. Look at FTW. NEW was severely outnumbered and attacked for accepting a guy who wasn't at war and then their MDoAP ally (FTW) went around and attacked NEWs MDoAP ally. Adding to the curbstomp.

I have not heard this argument; please do enlighten me.

My argument is not that it is Frawleys fault that other alliances suck, but that his argument that said alliances equivocate to any sort of potential threat/balance to Oculus. Even if they were heralded together by someone competent. Oculus ties up the game for active players.

Everyone outside the Oculus sphere is irrelevant. Even if Sparta is considered to be anti-Oculus, they are still MDoAP'd to Umb for example.

Yes GOD is #60 overall with 3 aid slots used in the last 6 months with an aid slot efficency of 0.143%. This is the type of alliance that Oculus/Frawley argues is going to create some sort of opposition to them and is the reason that Oculus isn't stagnating the game. Log was independently verified.

My point exactly -- Everyone outside of Oculus is irrelevant. Analysis of Frawleys only 25% of the world is Oculus. Here is the top 80 alliances: In Oculus: NPO, Umbrella, IRON, VE, DT, NG, GLOF, Sengoku Fighting for Oculus: NpO, NSO, NoR, FTW, AW, WWF, In bed with Oculus (major allies in Oculus/Fighting for Oculus): NATO, ODN, RnR, Sparta, NADC, Fark, GATO, TSK, TTK, Atlas, KoRT, TOP, SUN, TLR, TBC, OG, CCC, Last Call, Argent, GO, CRAP, RIA, TSC, Avalanche, WAPA, Gre, AGW Overlords, TSO, AO, PSSE, LSF, DoD, Armpit Platoon, Allied to those fighting for Oculus: SNX, Currently fighting Oculus: MI6, Invicta, NEW, TPF, Mongols Rolled by Oculus within the last 6 monthes: PPO, Kashmir, Neutrals: GPA, Pax Corvus, WTF, RotR, TDO, OBR, GC, Disbanded Alliances: STA, UPN, SL, LoSS, Int, USN, The remainder: The Legion, DBDC, SLAP, KoN, FAN, MHA, VS, TIO, GOD, ROMA, TOLD, TPE EDIT: I've gone through and analyzed every alliance here from an OOC perspective. If you feel any is wrong, please do say so and I'll give you my logic.

<DemonSpawn[RnR]> you really where thinking of rolling Invicta? <Frawley[NPO]> This game is dying <Frawley[NPO]> it needs something to happen <Frawley[NPO]> Declaring Red NPO only again might help <DemonSpawn[RnR]> lol <Frawley[NPO]> Last month was the lowest tech production month in history <Frawley[NPO]> globally <Frawley[NPO]> first time tech trade has been under 1m a month <DemonSpawn[RnR]> the thread i started in R&R, people where overall ready to go to war, as long as it wasn't for "just because we are bored" <DemonSpawn[RnR]> i get the vibe that a war without a valid reason probably won't pass a vote <Frawley[NPO]> What consitutes a valid reason <Frawley[NPO]> No-one is active enough to give a reason these days <Frawley[NPO]> I mean <DemonSpawn[RnR]> i didn't ask for a clear definition, but "just because" or "the game is dying" won't fly <Frawley[NPO]> lets say we hit them <Frawley[NPO]> and Legion his us <Frawley[NPO]> would activation of a MDoAP be a reason <DemonSpawn[RnR]> hit who? Invicta? <Frawley[NPO]> We hit Invicta <Frawley[NPO]> and Legion hit NPO <Frawley[NPO]> Would Legion activating our MDoAP count as a reason <DemonSpawn[RnR]> well <DemonSpawn[RnR]> that would be awkward <DemonSpawn[RnR]> Invicta has a MDoAP with NADC <DemonSpawn[RnR]> and we just upgraded to a MDoAP with NADC <Frawley[NPO]> well obviously we would absorb NADC and not counter them <Frawley[NPO]> <Frawley[NPO]> Just saying <Frawley[NPO]> everyone is tied to abosolutely everyone <Frawley[NPO]> lets make some drama <DemonSpawn[RnR]> and what am i supposed to do when NADC asks for help then? <Frawley[NPO]> NADC would be asking for you to activate an Optional Agression Clause against a Mandatory Defensive Ally <DemonSpawn[RnR]> you would just let NADC attack you? and no other allies of your would counter them? <Frawley[NPO]> sure <Frawley[NPO]> we have 3.1m more tech than them <Frawley[NPO]> I think we could deal with it <Frawley[NPO]> plus would get your guys some action <DemonSpawn[RnR]> why don't you guys just go and attack Doom Kingdom if you want action that bad? So NPO has been planning this since before DK disbanded. 2 monthes ago. <Frawley[NPO]> Like I can just leave NPO sit here and grow 2m tech a year <Frawley[NPO]> and eventually kill the game <Frawley[NPO]> Like I am aware of that <DemonSpawn[RnR]> if you guys find yourselves overwhelmed and need help in the mid tiers, because that's what a majority of our numbers is, we are here for you. we have no axe to grind against any alliance in CN, and aren't going to go looking for a fight <Frawley[NPO]> I don't mean an axe to grind <Frawley[NPO]> I mean what do you want CN to be <Frawley[NPO]> forget for a moment that we represent alliances <Frawley[NPO]> as a game player <Frawley[NPO]> in a game that has never been smaller <Frawley[NPO]> and is dropping players like nothing on eartch <Frawley[NPO]> what do we do <DemonSpawn[RnR]> as a player, id like to see CN without a mega bloc, that can go around smashing on alliances at will. Everyone know, that no one can really &#036;%&amp;@ with Oculus. You guys put together one helluva a bloc, and you can't be faulted for that, but it does damper things. I've had alot of people in R&R say that Oculus is helping to kill the game faster, because with a mega bloc like this, no one can do anything <Frawley[NPO]> We made Oculus because no-one did anything else <Frawley[NPO]> Oculus is 25% of the players <DemonSpawn[RnR]> now no one can do anything else <Frawley[NPO]> of course they can Frawley. Oculus is like 90% of the actual players. You can't take the ingame stats. Lets look at active players who are actually in a position of power. Even if you just count active players, Oculus is like 70% and the other 30% are made up of people like myself, MInc, Methrage, etc who have been basically perpetually curbstomped for years. <Frawley[NPO]> tbh, half of Oc is disbanding post war anyway Well that's just a pure lie. <DemonSpawn[RnR]> you know as well as i do, it would take more then half the alliances in this game to probably bring Oculus down as is <Frawley[NPO]> Not really, Oc is disproportionally upper tier <Frawley[NPO]> Oc would die in the mids <DemonSpawn[RnR]> if you guys went all in, and got countered, then you'd be able to call in R&R, NATO, and others to cover that <Frawley[NPO]> okay <Frawley[NPO]> lets say Oc went in on DK <Frawley[NPO]> I dunno <DemonSpawn[RnR]> O_o <Frawley[NPO]> aside from Oc disbanding <Frawley[NPO]> what would you like to see happen Here is what I would like to see: An attack on someone who can actually do something about it. <DemonSpawn[RnR]> lol im not saying i'd like to see Oculus disband, im just saying that it does put a damper on things. Oculus is here, and 2 of my allies are in it, and i dont want negative things to happen for my allies. <Frawley[NPO]> aye I get that <Frawley[NPO]> and tbh I don't want bad stuff to happen to my allies <Frawley[NPO]> but at this point I want to make a war happen that equalises the game <Frawley[NPO]> like I said <Frawley[NPO]> if NPO alone continues to just do what it is doing now <Frawley[NPO]> Oculus aside <Frawley[NPO]> in a year we will have more tech than the rest of the top 20 <Frawley[NPO]> we already have half of Oculus tech <DemonSpawn[RnR]> what exactly would you like to see happen <Frawley[NPO]> tbh, my view is that all the folks who are active are basically friends now <Frawley[NPO]> so either we fight an Eq type war <Frawley[NPO]> through to conslusion <DemonSpawn[RnR]> i gotta head to bed, i got work in the morning. i'll catch up with you tomorrow <Frawley[NPO]> alright <Frawley[NPO]> night mate Frawley you are absolutely blind if you don't see how Oculus ties up the game and is the single thing Rubbing out the few alliances that aren't in or allied to Oculus is supposed to "equalize" the game? Seriously what are you thinking. Please do share.

Please show some proof of this as the prior has been proven. Pure curiosity at this point.

Amigo 1: Polaris Amigo 2: Sengoku Amigo 3: unknown did you sengoku too stupid to count.

Your timeline is off. Smurths post on the OWF triggered my triggered my attempt to get Chim to attack us.* And THEN you approached me. At which point I did cut off contact with MI6. As for "offering them a CB against us" I don't even know where to start with that. All I said/did was try to get Chim/MI6 to attack us because if a war were to happen (as I was under the impression was inevitable due to Smurths post and the subsequent responses that had recruitment attempts from MI6), I would rather have them attack us so it would be a defensive war than an offensive one (plus a declaration on Kaskus would keep SRA relatively safer/out of the brunt of damage when compared to a scenario where SRA attacked MI6 and took all their allies VE/Sparta/Umb/whoever to the face). I was not out there starting a war out of nothing as you keep trying to pin on me. I am not Smurth, despite our names looking a little bit similar. * = No that does not contradict what I said above, in the aftermath of that I attempted to get our allies (at the time) together incase there was a war. I was not offering up my friends, I was attempting to have the back of my ally (Smurth/SRA) who was obviously upset at the continuous onslaughts on his facebook/skype/IRC query/ingame messages. Also If I were scheming, as you say, why would I go to chim and literally say "Hey attack us and we have <insert whatever global war was boiling up at the time>." Cmon think about it. If I were TRULY scheming I would actually be playing in back doors rather than going up to the "enemy." And I am not getting curbstomped to oblivion. I have chosen to fight with my friends in Kaskus. I was in TBC prior to this war starting. As for the war threat: I wish you would. You don't even have to put up an application. Just declare. We can keep it 1v1. (Or you plus whatever other guys I'm currently fighting vrs me).

That war was mostly unrelated (I say mostly because that war was influenced by other actions by MI6 but had no direct coorelation -- which is why I said I agree with TBC overall here). The cause of the fallout between SRA (Xanth, you?) and myself was after Smurth's post ( http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/122040-a-note-on-mi6-recruitment-tactics/ ) -- in the aftermath of that I was geared up to hit MI6 and had recruited (or attempted to recruit) a few alliances to the cause. NEW, Kaskus, FAN, SRA, III% and SP&TR iirc, Xanth turned around and told MI6/others that I was trying to get SRA into a war without his/y'alls backing because (from my perspective) he was scared of the Umb/Sparta/etc. retribution (MI6 had many powerful allies at the time).

I am always right. You will see it when you step back and realize my words are not directed at Polar, but at those not invited to the Polar/Pacifica/etc boys club. As for hades, I believe he was joking. "They simply got closer to them for political gain and nothing more. You can rest sure that there's absolutely 0 trust or mutual friendship in this treaty" sounds extremely sarcastic to me. But I don't know him and I can't say for sure.

IDC was the only alliance that didn't cancel on NPO in CoC. Not Invicta. http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/54901-international-defense-coaltion/

I find people in certain TBC members complaining about MI6s poaching tactics hilarious when they argued the opposing point against me vehemently when they themselves were MI6 members. Doch specifically. That said I completely agree with TBCs viewpoint here as it is the same one I argued years ago prior to the Kaskus/MI6 war.* There have been several mentions about how the attempts at reconciliation ended in March. By no coincidence this was when I left MI6. I foresaw this war and I did attempt to head it off before it happened. And yet Chim continued to be Chim and reconciliation proved impossible. Anyone who got on for the MI6COM the one time I got on got a taste of what hurdles were attempted to be overcome. * = and I don't mean the war itself. I mean when Kaskus/NEW/SRA almost attacked MI6 at the height of its power but Xanth was scared of going into a losing war because infra > principles.

The assumption that Pacifica (and to a lesser extent NG) would bring Polar (or any alliance) into it's fold for anything beyond political gain is not patently false; given the Digiterra's well documented history I daresay it's all but fact. At the very least one would see it's more than just hearsay. If Pacifica and Polar had truly just buried the hatchet (as you have done so basically 2 years ago) the status quo would remain and Pacifica would just not actively plot against Polaris (I'd say vice versa but implying Polar had the ability to ever do so is laughable). If it was simply a renewal of friendship at most a NAP would be signed. A military treaty such as this given the motivations and foresight of the governments involved all but confirms my analysis. Pacifica either sees a need to either give itself political leverage in Oculus or forsees a world where Oculus no longer exists. The attack on Invicta follows perfectly in line with this narrative. It is Pacificas MO to remove potential threats well before they even realize they are a threat. Removing them (and potentially Sparta) guarantees that any threat to Pacifica (VE, Umb, whoever) has no potential coalition ever. Couple that with their treaty of Polar puts that you in the exact same position Polar was in before the OoO was originally cancelled: Pacificas pawn. Or maybe you even see yourself as a Knight, Queen or even King -- it is irrelevant. The hand of Pacifica still guides you.

My issue with you is not that you have changed Polars' fundamental sphere (in fact I would applaud it as a long overdue move) but that you have allowed public perception to influence your posting too much. Your apparent need to appease a handful of ex-Polars has allowed much more insight into Polars potential goals than you should ever allow. The bolded part above, the reference to Randoms pragmatic reply as well as your post about this treaty being what you want/Polar not being able to betray itself paints a very clear picture that Polar is not in looking towards a Doom war. It takes half a brain to realize which potential wars remain even without insider knowledge. For one like myself who has no mentioned insider knowledge, it only brings about the question why aren't the other main players involved in this and which one of them should be scared of becoming the next invicta/MI6 or at the very least insulted for not being invited to the inner decision making table. Is there any life in Umb, IRON, VE, DT, RnR, NATO, ODN that is actually thinking about what war Polar could be talking about if not a potential Doom one (or at least after said Doom one)? * = IC, not OOC. OOC I wish more would allow this sort of public posting allowed analysis to happen. The fact that alliances without ideals who flip flop at the drop of a hat are not just allowed to exist, but flourish, is the worst trend CN has to offer. I sense that you are joking, however I feel it needs to be said for others: If your ally does not take your thoughts into consideration then maybe you should not be allied to them.

Well at least MI6 &#036;%&amp;@ign deserved it.

They aren't even militarized. If you actually had balls you would declare on the real threat: Sparta.

I made you a sig.

No I'm saying your premise that everyone who has ever been in GPA is a pussy is stupid especially when you consider half your allied govt, as well as former IOs/Emperors came from GPA. Also @Auctor -- Mongols started an aggressive war. Kaskus had one guy who attacked a small AA that had jumped agressively into the war without any DoW/treaty (doing the exact kind of thing people in Oculus regarded as rogues);* and then were attacked. They had one guy log into CN from inactivity mode to see what was going on and he didn't want a part of it so he went to his old AA, NEW. And then the entirety of NEW was attacked. Again with 0 diplomatic effort on the part of Oculus. * = TBF barely anyone holds a stance anymore.

Yeah GPA you pussies. Why don't you beat up guys 1/25th of your strength with a bunch of your friends like us real men.

Welcome to thea battlefield. There was a time when those dumbasses at the Legion threw me under the bus after I did everything for them. Including getting them on the path of reviving their name by singlehandedly* beating NSO&the 7 other AAs. But that is irrelevant to the point of this post. The point is that more alliances should do what Invicta is doing. Not just because you believe it's the end of days and all that bull either. But because very very few alliances actually act out in what they believe in. They follow their allies and whatever. Telling themselves things will be different when they are in power. The thing is: the path it takes you to get to power shapes you into the problem with the current power. * = Yes I didnt click the buttons on your nation but I did message all of you/talk to key people that influenced the rest of the Legion and made sure you had the balls to finally declare on tetris. I did all the stats, ran all the propoganda, and I ran your entire military during the war including who had to send aid to whom and who had the money to do so. I gave you a fair fight statistically and then made sure C&G only gave monetary aid in order to ensure you victory. And then you kicked me out (and messaged other people telling them to attack me) for posting a declaration of support for Polaris. An alliance that had just put everything on the line for you by sending you aid during the NSO war. What were you afraid of? Getting attacked? Your close ally was just attacked. Your pixels? You had just burned everything in the NSO was. There wasn't much left to lose.. &#036;%&amp;@ you Legion. You deserve to burn. Edit: not sure if you've declared war on the Legion. I assume by the responses you have and CN is down so I can't check.

This is all I got from this.