Belisaurus

If you're going to solo, save up for the Manhattan Project at least. Otherwise you're just a tech raid (OOC: that also posts OWF topics).

Thanks for the updates folks. I'll try to get to this ASAP post holidays. Having a family and all that is kind of a drag on my ability to play with teh pixels.

Well some people have fond memories of The Citadel since it allowed them to act like a *insert pejorative of your choice here* and not end up paying millions to various alliances. So this all makes sense, fond memories of the security blanket and all.

[quote name='Iceknave' timestamp='1324413157' post='2882753'] -snip- [/quote] I agree with everything you wrote, the only issue I see though is that if you're on a such short war cycle and your source income are tech deals, you don't get to spend much time on the wonder clock. As you said you have brief periods to buy wonders before the next war takes you to ZI/ZT/null warchest. Meanwhile if you're fighting Umbrella, TOP, or someone of that nature they're not missing wonder purchases. So you as an alliance are falling behind your enemies. You're at ZI/ZT/null warchest while they're still importing tech or purchasing the high end wonders. Post war you get a slight breather to jump up and grab a few more wonders, but you're never going to achieve parity or anything close to parity. You get to hit the wonder button a few times before someone comes and kicks your door in again. Worse it will be difficult for you to reach a stage where you can stop them from kicking your door in. If you're Pacifica and a lot of people are looking to settle grudges, so what you do makes sense but unless you can find a way to break the cycle it will prove problematic to expand your upper tier any further. So you're pretty much stuck in a world where Doomhouse can raze Francograd at will in a 1 v 1 fight. I think it is intelligent policy to get wonders early like you did, since Doomhouse can't nuke though away, but you need to break the cycle to get the good toys. Regarding the SDI, it can be very useful or useless for individual nations. Sometimes it shoots down 18 in a row, some times it lets through 7 in a row. What matters more is having them on an alliance wide scale. As your expand your sample size you start to see the benefit size of them. If a 200 person alliance all have SDIs and they stop a quarter of the missiles fired at them, it suddenly takes 267 missiles a day to nuke them instead of 200. If the SDIs are really stopping 6 out of 10 nukes, that means it should take 500 missils a day to nuke them. So suddenly in the later rounds of war your enemies were forced to shot themselves dry to break through your SDIs, which does help. Same with the WRC. If everyone has a WRC your alliance can purchase 400 nukes a day instead of 200. That does make a difference on a macro scale

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1324394829' post='2882564'] Hiding? Quietly? Spending? You can't hide stats in CN. The only effective way to save your upper tier is to align alongside those that are top heavy. [/quote] Build your top tier entirely off AA. Or at least a fraction of it. You have many options in that area. You can for example send them off to neutral alliances. One of the reasons for the Woodstock Massacre, members of Pacifica sphere governments felt a lot of LUE nations ran off and hide with the neutrals, rebuild, and surfaced later to cause trouble (either in GWIII or later on in things like Atlantis). I don't claim that reason is correct/true, but it was one of the reasons the GPA was considered for a strike. They were seen more as a place people ran off to rearm than to actually be neutral. You also have options of a Doomhouse like arrangement. Where everyone is together in a bloc, but the "alliance" your upper tier is in, isn't politically actively. Let your lower or mid tier be politically active and if they get hit, the upper tier can simply not chain in to the conflict. Basically imagine a Doomhouse where Umbrella is really small and doesn't ever fight. Of course this could be problematic with preempts. You could also drop your elite guys into protectorates. Somethings like the older protectorate bloc TPF had or Ragnablock. Only what happens is ever so often ten or twenty of your nations splinter off and sign a protectorate with their homeland. It's considered bad form to hit protectorates or preempt them, so your elite nations could sit there. If you want them to fight you could chain them in via the protectorate treaty (write it for ODOAP style). If you want them to sit tight, avoid the curb stomp, and be there for rebuilding, have them act like good little protectorates and keep their heads down. Then once you have the upper tier you want, call everyone home and merge them back in. Any of these options of course have risks of the nations you build failing to come home. I mean even in the end the Ordinance of the Orders failed, but assuming you aren't attached to the idea of all your nations on one AA you can hide your upper tier as you build it out. It is of course based on the assumption that you lose less NS to defection/failure to return than you'd lose to having your upper tier stomped on every 6 months or so.

[quote name='Bassbob' timestamp='1324400095' post='2882603'] The war is real. The terms will be real. [/quote] Your nation is oddly casualty free for having partaken in a 'real' war.

[i]20 December Update[/i] [b]IRON/TOP/etc Side[/b] Slain of Bracharia joins Avenger POW (this happened 4 days ago but I missed it) erikjsch of Winona joins AZTEC POW jediknight8 of Hamburgerania flees CNG POW and returns to the MHA. adhu84 of Kin Land joins CnG POW p2die of p2die joins Doomhouse POW Evan Taylor of Republic of kids joins Doomhouse POW Amar Slovack flees Doomhouse POW. Current flying "World Task Force Applicant" Blue Water of Blue Water joins BFF POW A little more research on Kyn Tucin (who fled NAC POW) shows that he aided tylerdurden1 of Baldfatastan on 18 December. tylerdurde1 is a member of the NADC, an alliance currently involved in the war. Skobama of Weedland surrenders to TPE, but manages to end up in the wrong AA (TPE instead of TPE POW). Tewopia of Tewopia is actually in "Avengers POW" not "Avenger POW". I'll keep tracking him though. Andrew Eacorn of Atomo is in "cngpow" not "CnG POW". I'll keep tracking him though. [b]Polari/SF/XX/etc Side[/b] Kaiser Der von Buns of The Empire of Buns joins Superfriends PoW green muffins of grunge couches joins MHA PoW gopherbashi of MCXA informs me that Alex Thompson was returned to LSF under a gentleman's agreement. I updated the opening post in an attempt to improve formatting. The biggest change is the "Wrong AA" list. Fix your POWS people. I'm also now included NS and ranking POWS by NS. I won't be updating NS regularly but I'll try to catch what it is when they enter the camp. We'll have to give the highest NS surrender some kind of "OMG NOT MAH PIXELS" award.

I do admire any leader whose motto is "Choosing friends is easy". That's why the web is the wonderful object that it is today.

Jerdge states it very well. People would act whatever fiscal costs are needed to stay in peace mode simply to avoid losing tech. At the end of the day you have: War Mode = money, tech, and land lost due to battle Peace Mode = money lost due to bills exceeding tax collections Short of making the econ penalty for peace mode really punitive, I see no way to deal with this. As it stands I think the peace mode game mechanic can be dealt with via human mechanics. Pre-emptive attacks, tighter OPSEC, better stagger management, etc. There are a lot of things a human can do to prevent peace mode on the other side. Also the community as a whole can become more accepting of punitive terms or demands for "direct" tech from alliances who hide in peace mode the majority of the war. On the losing side of course people need to evolve better strategies for hiding their upper tier. Quietly building them up and getting them ready for the main show. Learning when to spend those nations (ie in a war the size of Karma) as opposed to exposing them to damage in smaller wars. Basically I agree there isn't much of a penalty for hiding in peace mode, but I think we should force the community to adapt around this instead of getting admin to crank the numbers up.

[quote name='Gopherbashi' timestamp='1324324121' post='2881995'] We've got a gentleman's agreement with LSF due to some RL circumstances for this one; I don't believe we're that concerned with which AA he's on, so long that he doesn't leap back into war. [/quote] Thanks for the info. I'll change is up when I get a chance. My main post is getting ugly and needs some formatting anyways.

I really struggle to see this as an accomplishment. If I recall correctly Pacifica's reign as number one was interrupted for brief periods when IRON or GOONS 1.0 eclipsed them (due to Pacifica taking damage in wars such as VietFAN). However Pacifica was the center of all political power on Bob from GWII through Karma, with some disputes like UJW and Sponge vs Moo-cows. It never really mattered if they were #1 or #5 on the stat chart, all they had to do was jerk the treaty web and you were dead. UJW was likely the closest thing to a fair fight and that was aborted when Virilius shut down the \m/ front. TOP ruled through its stats, its quality of membership and its ties to other elite alliances (ex: Citadel). No one wanted to fight them and when war finally came it took over 20 alliances to bring them down. They also didn't fall that far. With their own wartime capability and their treaty ties to IRON, MK, and PF no one wants to fight them. The MHA got where it is today via suspending treaties when needed (ties with TORN and NPO during Karma) and always managing to be on the winning side. We'll see how far MHA falls after the war and terms, but the legacy of MHA and XX, will be four sanctioned alliances with ties to another decent sized bloc (SF), that Bob was mostly ambivalent to. This goes down in history right next to GWIII era Legion having over a thousand members but only managing a 253 war blitz. We'll see how far MHA falls, but I think they'll fall further than Pacifica or Paradoxia. Hopefully the war will serve as a bit of a wakeup call. The MHA as a midsized alliances that is politically active and has the military will contribute more to Bob than the ghost ridden, largest alliance on Bob MHA ever did.

Big update today in terms of fleeing the camps. [i]19 December Update[/i] [b]IRON/TOP/etc Side[/b] Shakya of Farmville joins CnG POW Jadin of Nidaj joins Doomhouse POW Jackgusa of Blargatjia joins Doomhouse POW murtibing of Fluens joins Mjolnir POW Lord Razzia of Razzian Dominion joins BFF POW Kyn Tucin of Illirea flees NAC POW and joins "Independent Blue Nations". Illirea is the only nation on that AA. JohnHancock of JohnHancock joins TPE POW CommanderInChief J of Ravendale joins TPE POW Neckbeard POW added to tracking. [b]Polari/SF/XX/etc Side[/b] Blitzkrieg01 of United Jericho joins Superfriends POW kajkajete of Rheinlander joins Superfriends POW Evan Taylor of Republic of Kids leaves MCXA POW and starts flying the MCXA tag on 17 Dec. It engaged by a GOONS nation. On 19 December he is wearing the tag "Doomhouse MXCA" and still at war. Evan Taylor appears to be a MCXA nation that attempted to hide in their own POW Camp. Alex Thompson of Vonlenska flees MCXA POW and rejoins the LSF AA. This was the nation's prewar AA.

At least by this stage in the war, we're mostly into the second wave of surrenders. The first wave was the cowards. Now we're seeing people who just didn't have a proper warchest surrender. I guess that's better than cowardice as least.

[i]17 December Update[/i] [b]IRON/TOP/etc Side[/b] Midnight211983 of Island of Darkness joins CnG POW Vladimir Spencer of Ilium joins CnG POW johnap88 of Olivian joins BFF POW Tarimiun of Fluffistan joins BFF POW Luigi's Mansion added to tracking. [b]Polari/SF/XX/etc Side[/b] Evan Taylor of Republic of kids joins MCXA POW

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1324009076' post='2879482'] Want to leave a fight before their mates is something i will never understand. well unless maybe if it were a RL issue that kept you from being effective in a war.. nah.. even absent you are a damage sink so its still useful. [/quote] About the only time I could justify it would be if: You're at or near ZI, can't escape to peace mode, and bill locked due to your wonder bills. So you surrender to preserve your nation that has 3 or 4 years worth of wonders on it. Of course you promptly rejoin the alliance post war and all that. Basically in the above scenario you've become a casualty and you'd simply removing yourself so they don't need need to keep feeding you aid. Post your surrender and get permission to get one or two aid packets to get out of bill lock and start rebuilding.

[i]16 December Update[/i] [b]IRON/TOP/etc Side[/b] Slain of Bracharia joins Avenger PoW Cyaneyed of Miyavi joins CnG PoW Manana of Jonland flees NPO PoW Mr Sandman of Sandland joins Hooligans PoW The Caesars of Empiro del Libero joins the NEW PoW Camp Memorialord of Sucrosia joins BFF PoW TPE PoW Added to Tracking Manana of Jonland added to erata section. Updated link to show he did surrender included. [b]Polari/SF/XX/etc Side[/b] RiceCrAckA6991 of Japerica joins Superfriends PoW Flint Black of lalthenian Empire joins Superfriends PoW Mikhaiel Rotwild of Briarcliffe Falls joins MHA PoW Alex Thompson of Volenska joins MCXA PoW

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1323976616' post='2879003'] I certainly don't handle admissions or anything but I do know that if someone came to me while we were at war with RIA and said "screw RIA I want to blow them up" I'd probably put a gun in their hand and point them in the right direction. [/quote] So he was admitted to NoR?

[quote name='Custodian' timestamp='1323972401' post='2878960'] I'm really astonished that someone who uses a picture of a woman imprisoned in a niqab as their avatar could consider women to be objects for his amusement in such a casual way. What would be really astonishing would be if that kind of person complained about other people's "unspeakable bigotry" because they failed to ascribe the same superstitious meaning to a linguistic token as he does. And I would be no less than amazed if he were to wish violence upon them for having had the audacity to hold a different opinion. In the event that any of these improbable things actually happen, I will be witholding my sympathy entirely. [/quote] There is also a nice thread on how he views his ex, which turns the misogyny up a notch or two. His posts are basically a case study in saying inflammatory things. Then the moment someone pushed back instead of playing along, he's here crying.

Sadly not everyone is respectful of things. Like for example [url="http://rialliance.net/index.php?topic=45293.0"]matrimony[/url]. The Lounge section of the RIA is a goldmine of material on this guy. Sadly though the RIA won't let generic users view profiles (to see all posts/topics of a person) so you have to click through the section one page at a time. He's on every page with a questionable thread though. Sometimes more than once. [spoiler] The thread is HolyRuler asking if he should pursue a married woman. [/spoiler]

[i]15 December Update[/i] [b]IRON/TOP/etc Side[/b] A Kirkland of Braginskia now in Avenger POW MinhTuan of GreatViet back in CnG POW after his little escape attempt Adding NAC POW to the tracking. [b]Polari/SF/XX/etc Side[/b] MrBigg24 of Pencil Sharpner now in MHA POW I'd also updated the erata area to contain data on MinhTuan, HolyRuler, and MasterChief. [quote name='rattlehead' timestamp='1323955387' post='2878819'] There is actually a NAC POW camp that is open. (Go figure, right!) http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=472809 [/quote] Added them in, thank you!

I'm happy to see the Entente undertake this action. I'm sad to see that Valhalla is apparently willing to burn political capital to save Nebula-X. I was really hoping this was going to play out as: [list=1] [*]Valhalla denies asking Nebula-X to enter. [*]The Nebula-X vs GOD war this thus a seperate conflict. [*]The Impero Doctrine is applied liberally. [/list] Show them your hammer and your fist Virdia. Frankly why anyone would shield Nebula-X escapes me. They're just floating around the war, peacing out when it gets too hot on a front and moving on to find an easy target that has been dogpiled already. A quick scan of the war screen shows Nebula-X with 10 offensive wars spread over GOD and the RIA, with 5 of those coming off Ludacrism and Sonic. They're basically declaring war so their leadership can tech raid a bit. I'm confused as to why any coalition would protect them or even want them freebooting around and stagger breaking.

[i]14 December Update[/i] [b]IRON/TOP/etc Side[/b] Tewopia of Tewopia now in Avenger POW shadowf0x of Lightfield now in the NEW POW camp MinhTuan of GreatViet returns to the MHA (leaves CnG camp) Adding BFF POW, Tear POW, AZTEC POW, Kung POW and Goonies POW to the tracking. Adding in United Equestria POW. Yes they have a guest and yes this gets its own line item. [b]Polaris/SF/XX/etc Side[/b] Barbabodom of Fenili now in SF POW Adding in MCXA POW to the tracking. [quote name='Turetel' timestamp='1323808763' post='2876868'] You will need to add: BFF PoW and TEAR PoW to the IRON/etc side. Goonies PoW Is the BFF Protectorate Bloc, so those would be added to the IRON/etc side as well. [/quote] [quote name='Coyote' timestamp='1323819812' post='2877008'] http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_display_alliances.asp?Alliance=AZTEC%20POW Colossus/GLOF/WAPA POW camp, IRON side, we have two. [/quote] [quote name='Grendel' timestamp='1323820100' post='2877013'] Olympus's PoW Camp: [u][b]Kung PoW (1)[/b][/u] Gonftw of MightyBooshland [/quote] Thanks for the information. Camps are now being tracked!

The purpose of this thread is to serve as a tracking thread for POW camps and surrenders. With the variety of POW camps in play and the like I figured it would be nice to have one thread to track them. Also many alliances no longer require a forum post to surrender. I've created this list using the very unscientific method of typing various POW camp names into the search box and recording what I find. If I'm missing a POW camp please let me know. I'll attempt to update this regularly through the end of the war. Blocs who funnel everyone into one central camp, I love you. The rest of you, not so much. [b][u]PoWs Taken By: IRON/TOP/Doomhouse/MJ/etc Side[/u][/b] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=avenger+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Avenger PoW (6)[/url][/i] Ron Weasley of Michigan, NS: 71,306.130 The Hatchet of Natureland, NS: 32,334.034 A Kirkland of Braginskia, NS: 11,485.773 Slain of Bracharia, NS: 9,394.443 Sable Luz Kenobi of The Jedi Republic, NS: 6,511.416 Tewopia of Tewopia, NS: 2,771.677 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Avenger%20PoW"]Avenger PoW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=cng+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]CnG POW (10)[/url][/i] Midnight211983 of Island of Darkness, NS: 83,136.299 HappyCamper of OboPingoria, NS: 66,617.243 Shakya of Farmville, NS: 58,923.032 Cyaneyed of Miyavi, NS: 48,217.530 Andrew Eacorn of Atomo, 34,753.604 MinhTuan of GreatViet, NS: 32,720.565. Surrendered twice, see notes section. adhu84 of Kinland, NS: 29,813.507 waterwhip of waterwhip, NS: 8,923.042 Vladimir Spencer of Ilium, NS: 6,019.482 Dewey Liolla of United Surda Empire, NS: 3,305.158 *jediknight8 of Hamburgerania, NS: 40,386.968. Fled back to MHA on 20 Dec. [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=CnG%20POW"]CnG POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=doomhouse+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Doomhouse POW (4)[/url][/i] Jadin of Nidaj, NS: 21,429.179 Evan Taylor of Republic of kids, NS: 8,318.170, Possible false AA. See Notes. p2die of p2die, NS: 5,487.909 Jackgusa of Blargatjia, NS: 4,038.427 *Amar Slovack of Tejanistan, NS: 30,389.773. Leaves Doomhouse PoW on 20 Dec. As of 20 Dec, flying AA of "World Task Force Applicant" *sheggrra of Columbian Victoria, NS: 24,418.33. Leaves Doomhouse PoW on 18 Dec. As of 20 Dec, flying AA "Deinos" [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Doomhouse%20PoW"]Doomhouse POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=Mjolnir+POW+&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Mjolnir POW (6)[/url][/i] Skaha of Britannia Coast, NS: 121,469.632 Get Sum of Get Sum, NS: 94,840.783 murtibing of Fluens, NS: 71,088.017 The Mediator of Grenoble, NS: 42,795.882 mak260 of The Village, NS: 33,459.779 King Danson of Dantonia, NS: 26,575.580 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Mjolnir%20POW"]Mjolnir POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=bff+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]BFF POW (9)[/url][/i] Gawz One of Gawz One, NS: 54,385.060 Lord Razzia of Razzian Dominion, NS: 47,217.315 Blue Water of Blue Water, NS: 42,247.375 bussie of Bussie, NS: 25.521.986 Memorialord of Sucrosia, NS: 23,438.259 Tarimiun of Fluffistan, NS: 19,784.854 druid of druid homeland, NS: 16,292.418 michael1874 of henryetta, NS: 12,257.797 Joseph Newis of Newisopia, NS: 8,509.713 *johnap88 of Olivian, NS: 22,471.190. Flees BFF POW on 19 Dec. As of 20 Dec, flying the AA "Europa Applicant". [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=BFF%20PoW"]BFF POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=TUSBOLED+BY+NEW%2FINT+Gulag%2FDB4D+PoW+&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]TUSBOLED BY NEW/INT Gulag/DB4D PoW (4)[/url][/i] lamborghini of NiKiTaLaNd, NS: 129,153.120 woohilo07 of Peace Portal, NS: 59.040.400 shadowf0x or Lightfield, NS: 54,275.569 The Caesars of Empire del Libero, NS: 8,981.650 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=TUSBOLED%20BY%20NEW/INT%20Gulag/DB4D%20PoW"]TUBSOL Gulag Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=tpe+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]TPE POW (5)[/url][/i] Sie Sayoka of Scarlet Empire, NS: 64,770.270 Capt. Aloha of Kamakanioaloha, NS: 56,603.363 CommanderInChief J of Ravendale, NS: 28,068.402 *Skobama of Weedland, NS: 15,532.696. Has [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=213&view=findpost&p=2882394"]surrendered[/url], but as of 20 Dec flying "TPE" not "TPE POW". JohnHancock of JohnHancock, 9,147.065 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=TPE%20POW"]TPE POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=AZTEC+POW+&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]AZTEC POW (3)[/url][/i] erikjsch of Winona, NS: 21,957.742 President Castaneda of Humanian Federation, NS: 6,501.659 moons mirror of Maroons Mountain, NS: 2,557.008 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=AZTEC%20POW"]AZTEC POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=npo+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]NPO PoW (1)[/url][/i] spawn44 of Kingdom of Siam, NS: 1,775.648 *Manana of Jonland, NS: 6,837.366. Fled back to Sparta on 16 Dec. Engaged by Pacifican forces. [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=NPO%20PoW"]NPO POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=invicta+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Invicta POW (1)[/url][/i] Rogue Warrior of Empire of Greece, NS: 5,644.303 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Invicta%20PoW"]Invicta POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=hooligans+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Hooligans POW (2)[/url][/i] Mr Sandman of Sandland, NS: 4,936.691 Duck in a Truck of Truculent, NS: 3,808.887 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Hooligans%20POW"]Hooligans POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=tear+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]TEAR POW (2)[/url][/i] Strion80 of Shasta Cola, NS: 32,891.482 Sparkleflames of Land of England, NS: 19,158.457 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Tear%20POW"]TEAR POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=ue+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2= "]United Equestria POW (1)[/url][/i] pablo escobar or FARCEP, NS: 446.682 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=United%20Equestria%20POW"]United Equestria POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=goonies+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Goonies POW (2)[/url][/i] vekta32 of vektopia, NS: 13,931.033 Pigeon Licker of Tauben Republik, NS: 2,062.347 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=goonies%20pow"]Goonies POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=kung+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Kung POW (1)[/url][/i] Gonftw of MightyBooshland, NS: 42,984.807 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Kung%20PoW"]Kung POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=neckbeard+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Neckbeard POW (1)[/url][/i] Aria Invictus of Monistica, NS: 28,072.818 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Neckbeard%20POW"]Neckbeard POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=nac+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]NAC POW (0)[/url][/i] *Kyn Tucin of Illirea, Fled Camp 19 December. Also aided NADC nation on 18 December. More in notes. [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=Luigi%27s+Mansion&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2= "]Luigi's Mansion (0)[/url][/i] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=lofn+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]LoFN POW (0)[/url][/i] [i]disHonorable Mention[/i] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107402"]Masterchief of CamaroLand[/url] Posts a thread complaining about war conduct by a Basketball Ninja nation. Inadvertently reveals he was prepared to surrender on the first day of war, including using in game mechanics to send the peace offer. Come for Masterchief's outrage, stay for members of his own alliance calling him out. As of 20 Dec though MasterChief is still fighting and has yet to surrender. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107549"]Holy Ruler of New Quds[/url] Leaves the RIA and defects to Nordreich midwar. Claims he is going to fight against the RIA once he gets his trades in order. As of 20 Dec he has been hiding in peace mode for 7 days (and been in Nordreich for 9 days). Come for the claims of religious intolerance, stay for people finding his own questionable posts on the RIA message boards. [i]Notes Section[/i] MinhTuan surrenders to GATO on 13 Dec. Then on 14 Dec rejoins the MHA. [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107348&view=findpost&p=2877356"]More info here[/url]. On 15 Dec MinhTuan [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=213&view=findpost&p=2878776"]posts his surrender[/url] and rejoins CnG POW. Kyn Tucin of Illirea aids 50 tech to tylerdurden1 of Baldfatastan on 18 Dec. tylerdurden1 is a member of the NADC, an alliance fighting on the opposite side of the war. Tylerdurden1 himself is not at war at the time of the aid (has been in peace mode since 9 Dec). After that on 18 Dec, Kyn Tucin flees the NAC POW camp and starts flying the AA "Independent Blue Nations". As of 20 Dec his bio still includes "POW of NAC". Evan Taylor of Republic of Kids seems to like to use POW AAs to kid. On 17 Dec he switches from "Multicolored Cross-X Alliance" to "MCXA POW". At the time he is engaged in an offensive war against ManinCombat of The War Nation, a member of Libertarian Socialist Federation. War is declared with the reason "MCXA All The Way". On 19 Dec he is flying the AA "Doomhouse MCXA", still at war with the LSF nation and now also being attacked by a GOONS nation. On 20 Dec he is flying the AA "Doomhouse POW". He is no longer at war with the GOONS nation (and it has been deleted from his war screen) but he remains at war with the LSF nation. At this time I'm not sure if this is a true surrender or just another jump to a POW AA. Manana of Jonland [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=213&view=findpost&p=2875954"]surrenders to Pacfica[/url] on 12 December. On 16 December he flees the camp and returns to Sparta. He is promptly engaged by Pacifican forces. [i]Wrong AAs[/i] Andrew Eacorn of Atomo is "cngpow" instead of "CnG POW". Skobama of Weedland is "TPE" instead of "TPE POW". Tewopia of Tewopia is in "Avengers POW" instead of "Avenger POW". [b][u]PoWs Taken By: Polaris/XX/SF Side[/u][/b] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=superfriends+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Superfriends POW (11)[/url][/i] drall of New Phyrexia, NS: 39,466.984 kajkajete of Rheinlander, NS: 17,113.588 HouseAtriedes of Maud dib, NS: 11,689.724 Barbabodom of Fenili, NS: 7,468.625 Francis McNary of Coltessia, NS: 4,682.532 RiceCrAckA6991 of Japerica, NS: 4,449.688 Blitzkrieg01 of United Jericho, NS: 3,642.367 wkdmind of AnopiA, NS: 3,429.852 Kaiser Der von Buns of The Empire of Buns, NS: 3,333.866 Flint Black of lalthenian Empire, NS: 2,322.213 Darwin Grey of Republic of Atheism, NS: 1,224.925 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Superfriends%20POW"]Superfriends POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=mha+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]MHA POW (4)[/url][/i] vom53 of Solitude Island, NS: 60,639.023 green muffins of grunge couches, NS: 22,598.910 MrBigg24 of Pencil Sharpner,m NS: 984.439 Mikhaiel Rotwild of Briarcliffe Falls, NS: 780.076 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=MHA%20POW"]MHA POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=MCXA+POW&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]MCXA POW (1)[/url][/i] Xaviers13 of United Slytherius, NS: 6,275.605 *Alex Thompson of Volenska, NS: 11,022.447. Released back to LSF. See notes. *Evan Taylor of Republic of kids, NS: 8,318.170. See notes. [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=MCXA%20POW"]MCXA POW Alliance Info Page[/url] [i][url="http://www.cybernations.net/search.asp?searchstring=Alliance&search=polaris+pow&anyallexact=all&Strength1=&Strength2="]Polaris POW (1)[/url][/i] LordStalinIV of Yuktabania, NS: 724.487 [url="http://www.cybernations.net/stats_alliance_stats_custom.asp?Alliance=Polaris%20PoW"]Polaris POW Info Page[/url] [i]Notes Section[/i] Alex Thompson of Volenska is released back to LSF under a gentleman's agreement, [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107490&view=findpost&p=2881995"]as per gopherbashi[/url]. Evan Taylor of Republic of kids appears to be a MCXA member hiding in their own POW camp for a time. See the Notes section for the other side for the complete history. [i]Wrong AAs[/i] RiceCrAckA6991 of Japerica is "Superfriends POW 8P" instead of "Superfriends POW". Kaiser Der von Buns of The Empires of Buns is "LoSS - Superfriends POW" instead of "Superfriends POW". [b]Updates:[/b] [spoiler] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107490&view=findpost&p=2877814"]14 December Update[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107490&view=findpost&p=2878859"]15 December Update[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107490&view=findpost&p=2880108"]16 December Update[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107490&view=findpost&p=2880771"]17 December Update[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107490&view=findpost&p=2881895"]19 December Update[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=107490&view=findpost&p=2882591"]20 December Update[/url] [/spoiler]

As someone who sells tech, this whole discussion just makes me happy.

[quote name='Dion de Vermiis' timestamp='1323723717' post='2875568'] I've never experienced the whole "large alliance" academy/handout program thing because I've never accepted any of the invites. I simply checked all of the recruitment letters I got and mass deleted them. Even though I worked my way up by myself, finding tech deals and resource trades on my own, working the foreign aid button and paying bills basically sums up my entire experience so far (minus the occasional ground attacks and such). I have to say though, it's really hard as a newer nation to be relevant to war because well, when you get nuked right after you start warring, and you watch half of your time spent here destroyed over the course of a single day, it's a pretty hard pill to swallow. Sure, all of the people who have been here for thousands of days probably have had this happen over and over, but what about to those 250 day old people? I think the biggest change to CN mentality that has led to tons of new nations deleting was the change in nuke usage. Nukes (as I've read from forums and such) used to be used as a last resort. Now they're just another weapon in the arsenal. [/quote] Nukes have been the new cruise missile for awhile, for good or ill. They're not terrible if you have an alliance behind you to help you rebuild but that are definitely annoying. With a good cash reserve you can buy the infra back (although your hand goes number from clicking). The real hassle is lining up the tech sellers and importing the tech all over again. Nuke usage was more limited back in the day because people didn't have the rebuilding capacity. Also because the people pushing "Think of the Children" had numerical advantage. Ground attacks/air raids/etc favor the alliance with more people, since they can fight you 3 v 1. Nukes favor the opposite (since everyone can only take 1 nuke a day, so the defender can nuke all attackers but only take one nuke in return). So most defenders have now figured that out and employ nuclear strikes, so they're not going to sign an agreement limited their nuclear options. The big issue I think is solo nations are back in the Great War II era or so, where a nuclear launch is a big deal. The older alliances with their support networks just throw these things with little to no concern. [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1323750669' post='2876151'] We've done many programs like this in the past and they all basically got phased out because they were useless. It didn't help new people play any longer, so millions of dongs were wasted on deletions. The money isn't the issue of course, it's the slots. Aiding a nation in a big coordinated effort often just ends up losing tech. Things like chaining aid or using middlemen multiplies that issue. I'd love to see some ambitious aid projects like these happen, but they will never be in common usage because of how much they rely on the dedication of the noob. [/quote] I can definitely see how we'd have a lot of money lost on deletions here. Or simply squandered when newbies failed to read the guide. CN has a number of alliances in the 200-300 member range that have a good 100 or so members at or over the 7k infra mark. They're also social pariahs or on the losing side of the treaty web. So they need to nation build to get competitive in the next war. I'd love to see them just straight up do this for 40 or 80 days and figure out the results. Something like: We spent X dollars, got Y Tech and Z nations that stuck around and are now on the wonder clock. Figure out if it is worth it and keep going from there. If say you your alliance currently has 120 DRAs that is 20 groups of 6 nations. If each group of 6 takes on 2 newbies you could run this program with 40 newbies at a time. The aiding nations can also be buying tech at 3/100 or whatever on their other 4 slots. Just scale the program up or down as you get newbies or feel the value of the program increases or decreases. It's basically asking each nation to donate X million to newbie growth and risk losing Y tech (if the guy deletes without sending back). I'm not sure what other steps could be taken to deal with deletions. Perhaps it would work in the sense of truly mass recruitment, like a Fark Greenlight type of thing. Where even if only 40 out of the 200 nations you pull in stick around, you still get 40 nations out of the deal which isn't shabby. Also nothing says you have to do this on Day 0. I sometimes stare at the alliances that have 120+ DRAs and wonder why they have a bunch of nations at 1000 to 3000 infra with over 100 days seniority in the alliance that are just struggling to grow.