Margrave

Not at all; we just don't like you.

I'm a fairly nefarious individual; how have you not realized this yet? Regardless of what anyone else thinks, providing materiel aid to someone at war is an act of aggression, be it intended or not. Polar's main problem is that they didn't have the political weight, or the military might, to forbid sellers from trading with DBDC. Actually, Polaris's main problem is that it survived to the present day, and that the banner it carries forward is one of soulless treaty-web manipulation, intimidation tactics, and sovereignty violating peace terms; your battle standard is so weighted with dishonor no breeze will let it fly, and provides the shroud many of my friends were buried in. But you know, old men, old grudges, etc.

Your member violated it first?

Why craft an answer to your witless missive, when the Bard has encapsulated the point I would advance so adroitly:

Providing materiel support to an enemy is an inherently aggressive action; the problem for alliances is that treating it as such without the wherewithal to prosecute offenders is a non starter, as Polaris's attempt to do so has shown.

Don't know if I would bother for someone who can't even capitalize their own name.

I keep waiting for WTF to produce a single nation ruler with wit, with elan, with the ability to form cogent, coherent sentences without spelling errors or gross abuses of punctuation. I'm still waiting.

Good heavens, and end this beautiful catastrophe? By all means, Os, please, continue to compound the failures of ODN to cogently deal with a sovereign alliance by continuing to post here.

Intellectual dishonesty and arguments from bad faith are inherent to the central platform of this topic. It's utterly nonsensical, and WTF does itself no favors by sending its usual suspects of the rhetorically irresponsible to join hands with Mogar on this issue. You decided to break faith with your alliance so that you could be the first to wave the bloody shirt. You discredit what you supposedly stand for merely by associating with it.

Regardless of which side you are on ( or if you don't have a dog in the fight) I believe this Schatt thread has delivered, good show. That being said, from the context of the debate, it's clear that ODN greatly underestimated WTF. Charging into a discussion blind to the nature and culture of an alliance is pure short-sightedness, and can result in PR nightmares (like this one). It'd be wise for diplomats of all stripes to take a mental snapshot of this situation and keep it as a reminder of what one wishes to avoid in the nebulous world of foreign affairs.

Gotta love a man who speaks his mind, not the 'mission'.

Kashmir has no ODP's, and no treaties at all of any kind. Please update this to reflect that.

I like the cut of your jib, sir.

That would be the first time anyone in MI6 has done anything interesting since they were mid/high level government in some alliance from long ago, so that would be something to write home about!

Running away from ones responsibilities as the leader of a sovereign alliance certainly counts as immature, childish behavior. Your failure to provide an explanation or a defense of your actions, instead turning to thinly veiled, vague insults, only illustrates that you are not a responsible leader of nations. I would recommend to GOONS that they seek the wisdom of Section II, Article F, of the original \m/ Charter whenever they vet people who have the desire to lead. Lord knows it would have kept this travesty from occurring.

To each his own; brevity has its own merits, to be sure. To be clear, I've no personal quarrel with you; I would ask some pointed questions of your replacement, however. I am available, as are several others of that era, for questions.

True; although you don't have quite my gift for loquacious, pompous verbosity; you're certainly more frequent in announcing your distaste.

Inasmuch as his rhetorical ability is limited to stonewalling and the mismanagement of truth, I'd posit that the exchange would be rather one sided. Also, there's no ethical meeting place between me and someone whose shown themselves to be craven. Edit: it's delightful to me that time is supposed to cover the sin of yellow bellied, boot licking, kicked curr cowardice; especially when he refuses to acknowledge it at all, instead to come back with a to qouque/ad hominem double barreled logical fallacy of a response, all while avoiding the exhausting mental exercise that would be coming up with a lie more complex than "nuh uh!". You stay classy, Marx.

Funny story; there's enough people left from \m/, an even government, who have long memories. I also like how you offer no cogent defense save an ad hominem; one wonders what dazzling set of lies you told to get GOONS to accept you in the first place.

I remember your panicking in government channels and telling me and anyone who'd listen that you'd lied about being in \m/ 1.0, and then further panicking, and then you were gone. Are there logs? No. But I know what I saw. I made the mistake of not talking the Prez spot when you offered it; I should have seen the cracks then (OOC: but I was in deployed at the time and had more important RL things going on). I also made the mistake of talking you into hitting NPO with too few people in the room from Govt to make that decision; I'm well aware that I had my own part of the guilt in killing any hope for \m/ 2.0, and I'll carry that till Admin ends the world. That being said, you displayed the most vile cowardice in the face of the enemy, and I'm the type who carries a grudge about that sort of thing. Also, as much as I have a distaste for GOONS via the constant "Hate Kashmir" campaign from KenMorningStar, I also respect Sardonic as a player; he should know what he's getting into. God help GOONS if the chips are ever against them and they're facing the pressure we did, you'll crack like a cheap china plate.

gimme a beat I can dance to while you're on that thing, man.

That's all fascinating, I'm sure...one never quite recovers from being a coward, however. Edit: To clarify; Marx led \m/ 2.0, and then abandoned the AA during an aborted conflict with NPO due to OWF pressures.

"Don't tell us how the rules work, otherwise someone might break the rules". That's great. Well, you can keep your mystery religion, I'd prefer to know the no-baloney rules, so my nation doesn't get axed for looking funny.

The New Polar has been my enemy for a very long time. You have never, nor never will be, my enemy; you transcended the office you held and represented an identity that was sincere, even noble. I will not hail the Order, nor the incoming Emperor, but I will hail you, Dajobo. Good work. o/Dajobo

Good evening, Cyber friends. We've just wrapped up yet another conflict on tired old Bob, another war for reasons, reasons which escape me for the moment, but a fairly standard war. Much like other wars in the years past, there were sides, blocs, political organizations. I waved a flag, you waved a flag, and we launched our soldiers against one another. What does it all mean? That's for you to say; only you can decide the value. And that goes for most wars; in a rational world, we recognize that no side in the conflict is truly evil or despicable; they are just mortal men, struggling to serve the alliances and nations that they represent, to do their best to leave a mark on a world where so many legends have already trod. That isn't my topic today. Today I want to recall a war without parades, whose veterans do not wear medals; a war that united three blocs against one despicable enemy. Because these are recollections, I invite others to put dates, and in some places names, to these events, but as I recall it, this is the story. I was a younger man in the days that lead to the last true Great War, Great War 3. Many will debate me on the term Great War, and what conflicts it properly applies to, but this is my narrative. At the time I worked in the Foreign Affairs Department of \m/, as the lead diplomat to USN and GUARD as a whole. In this capacity, I also served as the ad hoc Initiative diplomat to GUARD; though political relations between the two blocs were never exactly friendly, I and Xiao Xeng, the leader of USN, had a solid working relationship, and gradually, a friendship. Much of what passed between us has fallen beyond my recall; I recall a man of a temperate nature, and friendly bearing. He was a solid leader and a hard worker, and in the years to come, he would provide me with help in many avenues, both in the Initative and then, some time later, out of it. I recall today this specific occasion, and share it with you here, because I have been reminded today that though we may wave different flags and wage war for different reasons, there is an underlying agreement of what we as a world shall not tolerate; this is the story of one such occasion that united the world. It came to pass that, in a private, highly classified discussion, Xiao passed along critical information to me, and through me, to \m/ and the Initative; a plot he had discovered, along with leaders of GUARD. An evil organization, racist in nature, from the underbelly of the Cyberworld, had plotted nothing less than the overthrow of our civilization. Inflitrating like thieves in the night, they had passed into alliances of the Initiative, Aegis, and GUARD, all for the same purpose; to gradually suborn the characters and ideals of all alliances, and to bring them to heel at the foot of their intolerable philosophy. Much of what happened is lost in log files of long forgotten leaders and government offices that no longer exist, however, the intelligence that we did receive named names, gave dates, details, and via the usual smokey room politics and backdoor channels, three blocs did the unthinkable: they united. In a outpouring of righteous fury, hundreds of national leaders were exposed as the vilest of traitors, and sentenced to immediate execution; their radicalized populaces brought to heel under the banner of human dignity, liberated from their governments who had fostered such a foul plot. In a few weeks time, the war was over; a short vicious war, without mercy, without quarter, a war to the broken hilt of the knife as three blocs, and the many alliances they represented, stood shoulder to shoulder and said "Not In Our Cyberverse." The years have passed, and GUARD, as well as most of its member alliances, are but dust, as are The Initiative and Aegis. The Veterans of the great Purge war are thin on the ground now; no speeches are held to recall us to mind, and no medals were awarded. But of all the wars I've fought, before or since, under my own banner as an Alliance leader, under my own flag as a nation ruler, or under the flags of other great alliances such as \m/, NSO, Kashmir, it is that war I am most proud of. So to those fellows who can still recall those hoary and ancient days, I salute you as brothers, and wish you all the happiness and prosperity that the gods and Admin may render to you. Now, I open the floor to others, with this question: What moments do you recall that brought people from different political spectrums, AA's, and blocs together? What moments of unity have you observed, here on old Bob? OOC: Sadly I can't say much except some people from somewhere else decidely more racist and horrible decided to join a bunch of CN alliances to turn them into more of the same; Xiao got wind of it, passed it to me, I passed it to others, and it become the greatest Nazi Stomp (we'd had a few by then) ever. A good time, and a mostly forgotten war.