ktarthan

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330391930' post='2929603'] Of course not. I mean, the members of the mob beating on an innocent who then turn on the good samaritan that comes to the victim's aid are to be considered the epitome of courage and distinction. You are free to defend your members from a single innocent nation with full aid slots all you like. It doesn't mean I won't consider it wrong and pissweak of you to do so. [/quote] *BEEP BEEP BEEP* [b]ANALOGY ALERT[/b]. Sorry, but analogies used to make a point are eternally and objectively terrible. Nations are not individuals. Raiding is not "beating on." Alliances are not mobs. Please try to make your argument in the context of nations, alliances, raiding, war, aid, etc. GOONS is not defending its members from the raided nation. They're defending its members from a third party intentionally taking action that could cause harm to said members. In my eyes war aid is just as aggressive an action as declaring actual wars.

[quote name='Prodigal Moon' timestamp='1330390751' post='2929582'] Not "GOONS couldn't handle the heat of one nation." The [i]attacker [/i]apparently couldn't handle the heat of one nation. As if MONGOLS poses any threat to your alliance as a whole. You'll probably end up with spoils and reps that outweigh any damage, and have a nice large-scale raid out of it. [/quote] I think it's incredibly doubtful that the attackers (I think there was more than one) had anything to do with this. The government of GOONS operates very much on principle, and has a long history of taking similar action when it comes to war aid. And as long as a few MONGOLS are able to find their nuke button, I can't see GOONS recouping their damages. Not that I expect them to complain about it.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1330388685' post='2929559'] I don't really care about any of that. My point was that raiding someone then sooking it up when that target gets a little help is just pathetic and pissweak. I don't see that MONGOLS did a great deal wrong here. They sent aid to a nation that you guys were attacking for the reason of...well, because you could do so free from any real retribution. That nation had committed no crime other than to exist so I don't see why helping that nation is considered an act of war or anything that required reparations or for MONGOLS to dance to your beat on your mercy board. I though GOONS loved a good fight but it seems they are more intent on beating up old ladies and calling in the troops when the old lady gets a helping hand. Again, pissweak. [/quote] If an alliance sanctions actions which have the capacity to cause damage to the nation(s) of another alliance, that's a matter that demands attention. GOONS members that raid are guaranteed no special protection when they go out to raid (this is outlined in their constitution), but that doesn't mean that GOONS loses the right to defend its members when and where it sees fit, or that they should be called cowardly when they do so. Edit: [quote]So this is all because a raiding target got a few mil. in aid? That's pretty sad. Attacking the small and unprotected is cowardly enough, but I'm thinking you guys are the types to go hunting at the zoo. Can't put yourselves in danger now, that'd be too scary! [/quote] Yes, GOONS couldn't handle the heat of one nation they were raiding getting war aid, so they declared war on a whole alliance. How cowardly of them. ... [i]what[/i]

Oh this brings back memories of when we needed our allies FOK and Kronos to help us out during Roguefest.

[quote name='Vanilla Napalm' timestamp='1330379904' post='2929464'] I don't know what you mean by that, but suddenly i feel aroused. [/quote] you wish you know but even i donot know goons has lose 220k ns before even nuke have attacked enjoy your aroused while you still have an allience for using it

look at goon ns chart [img]http://i.imgur.com/WYgbc.jpg[/img] looks like MONGOL has something up there sleave maybe goon should of not bite of more then they can chew

Wow, did you really miss the point by that much?

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1330132801' post='2927802'] You realize my entire argument is Ardus was a good leader, right? [/quote] Now look what you've made me do! Really I didn't start off to try and disagree with you, I just thought the way you changed the word "certainly" to "may" was kinda silly and I ran with it. I respectfully rescind (most of) my objection.

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330130325' post='2927770'] Who said anything about ignoring? You're certainly not ignoring either I or many of the other members of alliances such as the New Pacific Order and Argent, you're just insulting them. Playing dumb isn't helping you out. You're acting like jerks and you have no real answer for your ghosting of Gramlins that was an affront meant to be a dig just as this statement is meant to belittle and mock an initially poorly written and since revised alliance policy simply because of your dislike for another alliance. You have no answer for it and continue to attack and belittle anyone who would suggest acting like a bunch of overgrown bullies is poor form. [/quote] My answers may be snide at times, but they always contain something of worth. In your case, you're mistaking an (alleged) lack of counter-argument as a validation of your own opinion. Against my better judgement, I'll give you a response sans the overt snideness. 1337 has already answered for why Gramlins was ghosted. I don't see why you are asking for more. If you don't like it, I guess we'll live. We've made this statement (the OP) because we feel that in light of UE's recent policy we need to explicitly make known our opinions on how we will handle reneged tech deals (unsolicited or not). The only revision in UE's policy I've seen is that their refund process now "may" send the refund to another nation. The policy in its entirety is still badly written and the refund process has been upgraded from "brainless" to "vapid". Oh, sorry, too snide? From "completely without thought" to "almost completely without thought".

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330125725' post='2927729'] I'm glad the best defense you had for me saying that while UE's policy was flawed (and since revised,) coming out with a bloc policy about how you're just awesome and the ultimate authority on everything Bob and then ghosting Gramlins just to add a little spice was a piss-poor move is a drab attempt to insult me and others and not defend your actions. Hope it gets you far! [/quote] "If people ignore me, I'm right by default!"

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1330118072' post='2927673'] "Oh look over here everyone so we can distract you from other issues!" Good work toadies. [/quote] I'm sorry, are you having trouble keeping up? See me after class if you need additional help understanding the material.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1330121274' post='2927693'] Worked as Valhalla's Chancellor before and during the war. Guess our people have their crap together better than I thought...except for trade circles of course. Please don't get me started...most people followed instructions like a well-oiled machine...some, um yeah. [/quote] It makes me wonder what some other alliances are teaching their new members. Aren't tech deals a day 1 lesson?

[quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1330072970' post='2927412'] Was UE's "policy," poorly worded? I'd say so. Did you have to be a bunch of jerks and ghost an AA or two to try to wave your appendages around? No. [/quote] Do you know who only does what it has to? Robots. I think you might be a robot, Myth, that has been programmed to be perpetually and aggressively off the mark.

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1330072570' post='2927409'] More like I have been exposed to enough sausage making to know how sausages are put together without standing by the assembly line to take notes. [/quote] Sorry but "Ardus is a bad leader. Trust me, I know how to make sausage. And it's not by handing out daisies." isn't going to sway many votes.

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1330035535' post='2927006'] You do not stay at the head of the pyramid for as long as MK has through several crises by handing out daisies. [/quote] Okay then, so you just like to assume things are true because you think they probably are.

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' timestamp='1330032510' post='2926974'] MK certainly has never let that stand in the way before? If posting only with complete knowledge becomes the standard then there will be 90% less posts on this forum. Also, I would think he is pretty close, whether by accident or design. [/quote] Do you have something in your teeth?

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1330029993' post='2926948'] I am not super well informed about the comings and goings of the current power structure because I have been inactive and Polar has been at the bottom of the totem pole for years. So it was more of a catchall "and other things I may have missed" type deal, and not a "AND OTHER THINGS TOO HORRIBLE TO LIST", or something similar, situation. [/quote] So you have no problem calling someone out for terrible things that you don't actually have any knowledge of.

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1330026065' post='2926891'] How could I forget? It was one of the greatest time periods for GOONS, a nice target rich environment ending in a modest amount of reps. [/quote] You're welcome.

I like this treaty which is a thing that I like. edit: more concise redundancy

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1330019401' post='2926791'] With the understanding that this information should trickle down, and that the policy is easily found by nations who make a reasonable effort to research the nations from which they are purchasing tech (and their alliances), I see no reason why ignorance should be an excuse. [/quote] Ignorance is in fact a perfectly good excuse, and UE themselves have acknowledged this with their (completely brainless) refund procedure.

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1330016867' post='2926735'] UE has made a reasonable effort to make their new policy known about. [/quote] No they haven't. Posting a policy in a place that is not necessary to view in order to send a tech deal to a UE nation isn't a "reasonable effort" by far.

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1330006550' post='2926603'] It's OK to treat them as they like to, I don't get what has to do with treating people the way they [i]don't[/i] want to be treated in, anyway. [/quote] That was in the context of the golden rule: "Treat others as you wish to be treated yourself". It's a pretty good rule until you come across people who enjoy being treated in a way that others would find unwelcome. If a masochist treated everyone how they wished to be treated themselves, well, they'd probably rack up some assault charges.

I'm okay with this.

[quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1329949569' post='2925769'] Since literally everything that MK members have stated publicly has been proven to be the exact inverse of the truth, should we just start assuming your denials are admissions? [/quote] You sure got us! Also, RIA is a good aliance.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1329947105' post='2925735'] What happens if [i]your member[/i] approaches a member of an alliance not on that list and agrees to a tech deal, do you still feel they have the right to renege on any agreement made? In this instance the agreement would not be unsolicited but the party in question may not have been approved by your government. [/quote] This has been covered in the thread; this policy only applies to unsolicited deals, period. As much of a problem as I have with it on the whole, they at least had that much foresight.