ktarthan

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1333054805' post='2945167'] Well, now that MK has cut the life support, the damage is quite apparent. GOONS peaked at 4.2 Million Nation Strength on the 6th of March, shortly after their DoW on Mongols. Today, their Nation Strength is around 2.5 Million, and with the Nukes continuing to land, its conceivable it will go down from there. So, 2 Million Nation Strength lost over 3 million dongs in aid? Amazing, but you sure showed us all how committed you are to war I suppose. Oh, and you guys have fallen under 200 members too, which we were assured earlier did not happen. Are we certain Umbrella is intervening directly because they are just helping out hitting targets GOON's can't? From where I am sitting over here in Stats land, it seems like they are trying to stop the hemorrhaging. Maybe I am reading too much into this, but perception is everything. [/quote] Please, just accept that you are unable to grasp the mentality that drives GOONS in this conflict, and move on. I've seen you periodically pop up and attempt to rationalize the situation from your point of view, but each time you miss the mark by some degree simply because your values over there in "stats land" are drastically different than those you're attempting to analyze.

[quote name='Vukland' timestamp='1332969637' post='2944482'] Doesn't matter I can't hear tone in his text. But I can say what he stated is truth. [/quote] Okay I'm just going to straight up let you know that he was being sarcastic. And he was also making a point about double standards that you seemed to have missed. [quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1332970149' post='2944485'] But really, all three parties enjoy war and raiding, you have provided each other with some fun, you have both taken damage, why not go for a white peace? or just admission of surrender? [/quote] But that's neither here nor there. GOONS attacked Mongols because they felt Mongols violated their rights and did not recieve adequate compensation. This is a matter of principle, and it won't end just because some people who aren't in GOONS think it should.

[quote name='Vukland' timestamp='1332966522' post='2944462'] Holy !@#$ I am agreeing with a Goon. This is a complete PR nightmare. [/quote] Good sir, you might want to rethink the tone with which the Goon you quoted made his post. [quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1332967166' post='2944467'] If GOONS love raiding and war and such so much, why dont they like and respect Kaskus and Mongols effort here and sign white peace? Because let's face it, no matter how many DH members post here, most of Bob sees this as a PR disaster. [/quote] If most of Bob jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?

Bravo Umbrella, glad to see the cavalry has arrived.

Since when has anyone cared about someone they're fighting sending [i]out[/i] aid? That's one of the flimsiest lines of reasoning that I've heard here, and considering the venue, that's something special.

I think it's funny for people to think that "GOONS getting rolled" is somehow a meaningful thing. They get "rolled" by many definitions every time they fight in a major war. If you want to make a vague threat at GOONS, you have to step up your game.

With Chax at the helm, I'm sure nothing can go wrong!

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1332512600' post='2942144'] You may be "people too" as you theorized, but you're vile, disgusting people. You're the kind of people that regular people wash their hands and face after dealing with. No one likes you because you've spent 3 years being unlikable. Stop whining about how everyone hates you, you are despised because you're despicable and that's just what you've cultivated purposefully. People hate you because you want them to hate you. [/quote] Honestly, this is the kind of reviling that GOONS needs. All of the trying to e-lawyer/philosophize/wall-of-text-at them about every single thing they do is boring and pointless. Bring something fresh to the table, and I'm sure they'll engange in a much more entertaining manner.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1332452375' post='2941758'] Since when is someone having the balls to declare war on someone much bigger than them reason people would want to drive them away? We need more people willing to declare war for what they believe is right, not less. [/quote] The OP specifically states this war is on their way out. He's already made his decision to leave.

A nicely written post, but I feel the sentiment is ruined by the biased portrayal of events. If you wish to make a point about free will and the necessity of choices, it would be much more powerful to make it from a more neutral point of view. As it is, alongside the main message you're also trying to piggyback a justification for Mongols and Kaskus, while vilifying GOONS. While I obviously see the incentive for doing so, this dilutes the message, and will do nothing but cause arguments unrelated to it.

If you need some pointers, ask RUKUNU. He's been at it for near two and a half years. Edit: Stonewall, you're a funny guy. You should do stand-up.

[quote name='Swatch0' timestamp='1332283965' post='2940901'] This is exactly what is happening. Oh god they are actually fighting back, lets get some friends to cover up for the NS we are losing to 2 Micro alliances [/quote] MK is trying to help GOONS maintain sanction status because we don't want to lose this swank pip. That's it. Do you actually think you're clever?

When it stops being entertaining, most likely.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1332200625' post='2940404'] It can't be Timeline, if it were him, it would have been even more poorly constructed. I can concur with raiding does not push that many people out, it does, however, push them into alliances and generally give them a healthy hatred of raiders. I have two guys joined due to raids, which suits me fine. What will be amusing is when this place falls short of raid targets, which will happen, then I guess raids will not be as widely used, I'm sure of the raiders in here, will cry their little hearts out at that prospect? Maybe it might encourage more actual warfare, which may benefit the few remaining rulers left on this plane of existence. [/quote] I agree, the syntax is strange but there aren't enough spelling mistakes to conclude that it's timeline. And honestly it warms my heart to hear of raid targets joining up with alliances, especially if they cite the raid as a direct cause. After all the tech they take away, it's the least a raider can do to give back to the community in a positive way. Also, I'd disagree about the prospect of a complete lack of raid targets. Yes the pool is growing ever smaller, but I feel that once the pool is small enough to cause a significant shortage, there will be far more pressing concerns than a lack of raids.

If you compare the rate at which nations leave the world and the number of nations that GOONS actually raids, the percentage isn't particularly significant. And that's if you assume that every nation GOONS raids leaves the game because of it, which has been proven to not be the case. I ran the numbers a while back when GOONS was even larger and more prolific in their raiding, and it came out to be something under 3-5% when making all worst case assumptions.

Looks like MK lacks the nations in range of Sword Alliance to fully retaliate. It looks like we will likely have to rely on the strength of GOONS this time around.

So wait. FARK didn't actually *require* the beer reviews for peace, accepted plagiarized reviews, and still dropped the practice? I now wholly regret making the comparison earlier; it casts GOONS in a poor light being put beside such an aggressively boring alliance. edit: jus some werd changes and bad tenses

[quote name='EViL0nE' timestamp='1331828972' post='2938399'] GOONS pushes their mercy board as a way to make tangible the superior political position granted them by DH/PB over their opposition and to see how much ooc "humilation" they can force people to accept to remove themselves from a war. [/quote] The Mercy Board has existed for much longer than DH or PB so it's good to see that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[quote name='Atanatar' timestamp='1331764699' post='2938158'] Ah yes. If I shared/understood the GOONS mindset, I wouldn't think GOONS would be so ridiculous. Excellent retort. [/quote] Nothing to do with sharing the mindset. You thinking that GOONS would reject completing the same terms that they dish out is so far off base that it makes it hard to take your interpretation of the situation with more than a grain of salt.

[quote name='Atanatar' timestamp='1331763323' post='2938145'] The Mercy Boards are a punishment when those who set the terms use it as such, with an explicit threat to dissuade another route of conflict resolution. That is a bitter pill for ANYONE to swallow, and I imagine if some one had made the same threat to GOONS, GOONS would give a giant middle finger in response. The fact that NPL complied with their requests, and made several efforts shows that despite the efforts to jerk them around, they were willing to try. [/quote] Your imagination is incredibly off base. If the shoes were on the other feet, members of GOONS would be [i]fighting[/i] over the chance to be the one(s) to complete the terms. I wouldn't be surprised if they held an internal competition to select the official term submission. I think if you actually understood the GOONS culture and mindset, you'd not be so put off by the whole thing.

[quote name='Atanatar' timestamp='1331756222' post='2938082'] And we acquiesced to allowing Ivan a Milk review. Unlike Sardonic, who's only compromise was to offer another month of war on an AA that was ZI'ed and heading to bill lock. Where as our terms are an attempt at light heartedness, your attempts are more stylized as an attempt to exercise the power you have. [/quote] I'm not in GOONS any more, so it's not "our" attempts. But I can tell you sincerely that mercy board terms are not an exercise in power. They are a tool for entertainment, purely and simply. The terms aren't made specifically to be difficult to complete, and any applicant who appears to have fun with their term is instantly recieved 100% more positively. The Mercy Board looks and feels like a punishment only in one's head, as it is intended to be anything but.

Why I'd say that the mercy board is nearly as heinous as requiring someone to review beer as a term!

I'm inclined to agree. I think a lot of us are in the same boat that we want to make things more interesting, but we find it hard to put this into words that both makes things both fun/lighthearted for "RL friend" or casual players and more challenging/realistic for the more politically interested players. There are also a lot of in-game factors that heavily disincentivize any form of war as action. And that is, for most, the primary way of affecting change. This is why I add the caveat about reducing potential for future changes. Without the NS to back it up, it's difficult to make changes unless you're one of the few that are gifted enough to manipulte others to achieve your goals. And, with that exception in mind, most changes come about through some loss in NS. So you have to balance your ability to make changes (weight of NS) with the actual changes you make (loss of NS).

Seriously though, I don't know if MK could have a unifying dogma due to the mixed nature of its members. My own personal dogma is to support any and all change so long as it does not significantly reduce potential for change in the future.

This just in: GOONS doesn't have many nations above 40K NS. Millions shocked. Maybe next time MONGOLS can get into a war with Umbrella, and we can all laugh when Umbrella calls in GOONS to pad their lower tier. Edit: Reducing pronoun ambiguity