General Specific

I don't think leaders on Bob are so evil. I also don't think the most powerful nations and alliances gained their positions of strength because of the use of force. But that is yet another debate. Of course your policy is controversial and has some problems, but you have to start somewhere and I respect that you want to be better, even if some greater points are missed as you get the ball rolling.

OOC: Can you at least try to be IC in your own AP announcement? As for your sense of futility, why bother trying anything?

I wonder if that that is still Electron Sponge's position, even now that he is in a position of relative weakness? I would bet it is, and probably for the same reason some alliances like RAD and PC will always defend the activity of raiding. And with this I will answer Sponge, PC, TCB, RAD and others by venturing OOC: Raiding will always be a sensitive issue on Bob but not because it is evil IC. I think raiding goes to the heart of so much of our confusion between what is IC and what is OOC. While IC I applaud any actions such as this to make raiding more "civil," Planet Bob has an uneasy relationship with separating IC and OOC. Some learn to defend their raiding in-character and others refuse to engage in any such exercise and parrot the naked OOC excuse that "this is a game" and raiding is needed to make the game "fun." Obviously not everyone finds fun in the same ways, but that is an entirely different debate. As I wrote to Ejay a few weeks ago while I was still aligned, this IC/OOC confusion surrounding raiding for "fun" or "game training" has been one of my central reasons for opposing raiding. It also is why I am a little uneasy with some who beg for treaties to be canceled and for someone to start wars to cure "boredom." The very heart of these debates is the bare fact that most people and alliances that raid do so solely for gameplay fun just as many "strength" oriented alliances maneuver and salivate for wars to avoid "boredom", things that certainly are okay IC, but they are fundamentally OOC, unless these parties can continue to learn to improve the IC presentation and packaging of their raiding and warring motivations. With that, I see this announcement as a welcome step in this direction.

Monks are cool and so is your charter. Best wishes!

Updated and thanks to all who have contributed so far. I also would like to reserve a place for special notes for alliances like STA, PC, RAD and others who have special rules regarding raids.

Dear National and Alliance Leaders of the Cyberverse: The nation of Brackwaters has directed me to compile a list of nations and alliances who allow "raiding" and another list of nations and alliances who do not allow "raiding." If there is a thread or a wiki link on this in existence already and we have missed it, please let us know here and we can link to it as well as edit in the link to a special diplomatic invitation to all nations and alliances of Planet Bob. Otherwise, we will push ahead with the minimal info on hand for this special project and request the international community's assistance in expanding (and correcting) these two lists. Alliances that Do Not Allow Raiding: AOD Brigade Apocalypse Argent Avalon Blackwater The Brain Carpe Diem The Christian Coalition of Countries Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations The Democratic Order Federated Allies for Cultural Exchange The Federation The Foreign Division The Galactic Republic * Genesis Global Alliance and Treaty Organization Global Defence Group Green Protection Agency The Greenland Republic The Grey Council The Immortals Invicta The League of Extraordinary Nations Legion Libertarian Socialist Federation The Light Brigade Mostly Harmless Alliance The National Alliance of Arctic Countries New Pacific Order New Polar Order Nueva Vida Orange Defense Network The Order of the Black Rose Pandemic The Order of the Paradox The Partopian Alliance Realm of the Rose Seaworthy Liberian Cardboard Boxes (SLCB) Umbrella The United Commonwealth of Nations (UCN) United Sovereign Nations United under Scorn (US) The Viridian Entente World Task Force Zenith * for now B) Alliances that Allow Raiding: The Aquatic Coalition Front## Ascended Republic Of Elite States Athens BAPS The Brigade The Brotherhood of Nod *! The Centurion Brotherhood Coalition of Blue States The Dark Templar Echelon Federation of Buccaneers FEAR FOK Galactic Imperium The German Empire Global Republic of Armed Nations The Grämlins + The Grand Global Alliance Guru Order The International IRAN (Independent Republic of Armed Nations) (policy here) IRON JUSTICE Kronos ** MCXA Mushroom Kingdom ** NADC *** The New Sith Order *#* Nemesis++ NATO Nusantara Elite Warriors 1TF Order of the Four Leaf Clover The Order of Righteous Nations Ordo Verde The Patriotic Union of Kalashnikov Enthusiasts (policy here) The Phoenix Federation Poison Clan* Ragnarok* (policy here) Republic of Allied Defense (RAD) She Said She Was 18 Siberian Tiger Alliance* Soldier TOOL* United Purple Nations# Unified Royal States Alliance Valhalla Veritas Aequitas *Special rules apply, more info needed ** Single unaligned nations or alliances with 4 or fewer members (<5) *** NADC members can only attack unaligned players that are inactive 15 days or more. *#* alliance "license" required + unaligned or one member alliance, no alliance protection for raider ++ with triumvir approval # United Purple Nations allows tech raids, restricted to alliances <4 members or non-aligned, non-red, non-purple. ## The Aquatic Coalition Front allows tech raiding as long as the raider gets a license, cannot raid red or aqua nations, or any nation in a 5+ alliance. Under 5 nation alliances are allowed unless protected. *! encourages tech raiding and the eating of babies Alliance Status Undetermined/Help Sought: LoSS Sparta OcUK Jarheads OTF Alliance The Sweet Oblivion Scotland Forever Vox Populi FnKa Unaligned Nations that Do Not Allow Raiding: Brackwaters Unaligned Nations that Allow Raiding: There are many, but I am not sure if they read these forums If you are unaligned and also wish to be included in one of these lists, please also feel free to post here. Assuming this is not duplicating information readily available elsewhere, this list will be updated at least once per day while we get rolling. I thank in advance all who can contribute here and I continue to remain, with the greatest respect, your most humble and obedient servant. /s/General Specific The Republic of Brackwaters edit10: Thanks to Emperor Mccole, A Soviet Attack, Working_Class_Ruler, Telchar, White Chocolate, O-Dog, Col John S Mosby, Jeeooh, Joracy, M6 Redneck, Empirica, WarriorConcept, Prodigal Moon, lebubu, Svendonia, Balder, JWConner, Mayzie, Adrian LaCroix, avernite, Hime Themis, Mentor, Poobah, Gabriel Carver, Mogar, Jipps, Mirreille, Bob Janova, Manwe Drago, Qaianna, Hormones74, Statmeister, Nizoral, Lord Rune, BamaBuc, Supa Troop3r, Lord Brendan, Jacob the Malignant, rabidman, Outburst, Sal Paradise, Vespassianus, Heracles the Great, Captain Flinders, Alterego, The Baby, Gen Lee, Lincolngrad, King Boris, Darth Maul, Londo Mollari, Guffey, the lizard queen, Freddie Mercury, gambona, Mark Reynolds, Freelancer, Solidus117, Ghostlin, Kzoppistan, GearHead, Ashen, Ejayrazz, Van Hoo III, Allen Kalashnikov, WarriorConcept, The Doctor, bibliophile, Asriel Belacqua, phillip110, Alfred von Tirpitz, Stylesjl, redrussia7 Also thanks ajaxpenny, I took your advice and separated the lists

Sweet gawd, Bob. Please don't tell us you really buy that. True or not, it is the bottom of the bottom of gameplay to even argue this way. It's also about the saddest excuse for gameplay logic I have seen admitted on the OWF. It's best to keep this level of neurosis off of these boards. I know you can't really think this way, too.

I know this is answering felix, but as an unaligned nation I really would prefer you just pm me for money and tech rather than attacking. That would be even more gentlemanly and civilized from my unaligned perspective. I'm quite serious, too. Just tell your alliance members to ask me any time and I'll send tech and money if you will promise not to attack me simply for being unaligned.

Congrats to two of my favorite outcast alliances. Here's also to the hope that perhaps some day you can get something like that old M-thingawhatchamacallit -DP back in place and on stronger footing.

See this is where your grasp of raiding falls. A raider shoots my citizens and soldiers no matter what when you send in ground attacks. It's just a question of how much damage you are going to do if I fight back. How about someone from Poison Clan or RAD just pm me in advance requesting that I aid 3 of your nations tech and money instead of attacking? That would be a better comparison.

Excellent! Miss Manners wrote something else on how to steal without making it feel like it's really stealing. Techraider: "Excuse us dear sirs and madams, while we relieve you of your nation's land and technology. So sorry about your dead citizens and soldiers." Unaligned/Inadequately aligned nation: "Why, no problem at all and you are quite welcome, old chaps." Techraider: "You have a wonderfully pleasant day now, ya hear?" Unaligned/Inadequately aligned nation: "Thanks. That smile and good demeanor made this such a wonderful experience!" "Ya'll come back now, ya hear?"" Techraider: "Oh, you can count on it. Cheerio!"

When you represent an alliance in two blocs with intersecting interests, it is only natural for such an alliance representative to remember the mathematics of which bloc is more virile when the re-interpretation and re-definition of such interests are in play.

I was told hair questions were not allowed. Now a follow-up question for Caseus, to keep focused on the topic of Poison Clan: Inevitable or immutable?

In her defense, I think she, as would be entirely expected of anyone in her position, sees those interests as something resembling coequality. Perhaps there is a more fitting word. Also, her post above may not be penned to play to a crowd, but she earned my respect with her response. Yes, I know how much that is worth.

Okay, okay, gotta stop you without an edit here. You obviously misunderstand our umlauted friends, unless you are just trying to stick up for Reyne here and are getting carried away with the defensive rhetoric, which I can understand. edit: Oksay?

It's capital city. Don't mean to harsh your buzz. Also, nice disjointed prose... who knew Jack Kerouac rambled around PB? edit 2.1 nice pics, Sith uhh Sileath

edit: Thanks, Bob, you got my point

As a friendly note from the "public," statements like this do leaders who utter them far more harm than you might imagine. It does not show strength of purpose let alone independence, even though I realize some leaders seem to think it does. On that negative Nelly note, good luck on trying your own path again.

I would disagree with this thread, jonathon brookbank, being whoever he is, is mischaracterized here.

Signed and without qualification

Congrats on making it through 3 interesting years , on grey no less

Congrats on the Regent election and with continued best wishes.

Hey, pull your pants up. And tell that Trinite rapscallion to put on a shirt. Also, good luck to all parties with this situation.

Aye. A+ for effectiveness. In before a future of "no member below the rank of X in alliance X may post here." :lol:

First, I ask for your indulgence of my bad sense of humor in this OOC forum, but to stay on topic and contribute something constructive I just had to chime in. I was looking for a bunny with a pancake on its head to post here and found the image below instead. I thought it funny, and sure to get some people even more worked up over long-past and resolved history. For those who think this post is IC and there is no place for humor here, please scroll on by this post. . . . . Nothing to see here. Hope you moved along if you found this pic offensive IC. Finally, I hope the humor in this pic is taken as a full mockery of our IC politics and not as an OOC attack. Oh, and this is in topic, for whatever killed our understanding of IC and OOC surely was a most influential event for our IC planet.