Corinan

Well yeah it is Vladimir we're talking about. He only deals in truths.

Out of curiosity, how has Vladimir discredited himself? I've known Vladimir for over five years now, spanning the entire existance of this universe and others, and I can say with all honesty that I cannot recall an instance where he's lost a debate. Ever. Can someone name an instance where he lost a debate? I can't. That being said it's hilarious watching Vox Populis response to any Vladimir post: "lol Vladimir" "lol OMG another wall o'text by Vladimir!" "Mumbo jumbo!" "Vile propaganda! Don't listen! DON'T LISTEN!" All this is done in an attempt to discredit the man without actually having to challenge him in debate, because no one in Vox Populi is capable of doing so. And that's exactly what you're doing here. "Oh don't listen to him because it's Vladimir talking about something Vox Populi related so of course it's just propaganda!"

That's pretty much at the heart of his grievances with us.

That sure didn't stop you from jumping on your soapbox and puffing out your chest at us. "Boy if I were just a little bigger I'd show you all what's what!" Come back when you've got something to back up your threats with, because as of right now they're totally empty.

You existed prior to Vox Populi? Why don't I remember you then?

Why'd you go and spoil his grandstanding like that?

Eh, I remained unconvinced. You and Vox Populi as a whole simply suffer from a Napoleon complex. I can't count the amount of times I've heard a Vox Populi member say, "Oh yeah, well if we're so irrelevant than how come fill in the blank.?!?!? Yelling really loudly and writing checks with your mouths that your butts could never hope to cash does not make you relevant, just annoying. Making announcements that people like responding to in order to rip them apart does not make the content of the announcement relevant, it's just a really juicy target. I hope I've cleared up these misconceptions you've held, Schattenman.

Isn't that just the very ad hominem cop out that Vladimir spoke of? Anyway, you're just trying to discredit Vladimir and in turn, Pacifica, since everyone knows that any claim made by you in regards to Pacifica or Pacifica related subjects is an attempt to discredit either Pacifica or NPO members. These broad, sweeping generalizations sure make debating easy! "Well you're wrong because everything you say about me or my alliance is vile propaganda with no basis in fact because your only goal in life is to bring about our complete and utter destruction!!!!!"

Life can be so unfair. It would be pretty interesting if that nation moved to red though.

This makes no sense in the context of this conversation. I'll try not to lose any sleep over this.

You're right, it means someone will be bearing the brunt of the kings righteous wrath.

I'm not following you. What are you talking about?

I never spoke of fairness, and no, not all alliances are created equal. The red team is ours because we say it is and have the ability to back our words up with action if need be. This isn't really a hard concept to grasp, but you're just stirring the pot so have fun with that.

It's as if you ignored my point completely. How are were operating under the assumption that we have special rights over other alliances? If any other alliance wants to be on the red team they have every right to attempt to take it from us. They will of course fail, but it's their right to try.

Yes, exactly.

OOC: Yes, but I was thinking in more real world terms. I guess I should have stated that.

I'll answer your question with another question. What right does a nation have in claiming sovereignty over the land within its borders? You think on that, young one.

I'm Doppelganger and I'm a Francoist.

Yeah step 1 and 2 are probably the most important. Basically, if you exercise a lot of patience and build up your nation beforehand, you'll have a pretty hard time screwing up step 5 and it'll be a while before you hit step 6.

Perhaps, but that's pretty much what you have to do in order to be a successful rogue. And it's a lot less words than other guides.

I think I could makes a very good and concise rogue guide. Let me try right now: Step 1. Save lots and lots of money. Step 2. Get lots and lots of wonders. Step 3. Get a secret uranium trade if you don't have native uranium. Step 4. Sell off a bunch of infra so you can torture smaller nations. Step 5. Declare war and fire nukes. Step 6. Be slowly ground to ZI. Not bad, eh?

Yes, he's done well for himself and done plenty of damage, but you seem to be downplaying the enormous advantages he's had over the nations he's attacked while at the same time downplaying the fact that he is quickly losing steam. You can play up his actions all you want, but at the end of the day he's only managed to throw a tiny peeble into the ocean, barely making a ripple. His nation will be in ruins and those he attacked will be stronger than before, war aid and such. You can scream that the Order doesn't care about its young until you're blue in the face, but it won't make it true. Just because I don't follow every little thing that goes on in Pacifica doesn't mean that I don't care. And before you say it, yes, I consider his actions to be pretty "little" in the grand scheme of things. Pacifica will march on, right over his corpse. I'm not 100% on this, but I don't think he attacked anyone near 40,000 NS. He kept his attacks concentrated on our lower NS nations for maximum damage output. So while our lower nations did take a beating, it's nothing a few $3 million aid packages wouldn't quickly cure. And then some.

The "big bad scary man" is sitting at about 500 Infra and in Anarchy. That's not exactly my definition of scary. Look, I thought I was giving him credit where it was due. He's shown good planning in executing this guerilla campaign against us, but it's still going to end the same. He'll be at ZI and our lower range troops will be stronger than they were originally. As far as you trying to imply that my statement shows that the NPO doesn't care about its lower strength nations, I'm in the highest battalion in the Order and therefore don't pay much attention to the lower battalions. I'm not a Pacifican government official and pretty much stay in my lane. That doesn't mean I don't care about my lower NS comrades and to try to take what I said and imply that is ridiculous.

Their justification for their actions isn't surprising at all. Vox Populis true intentions are rather transparent. We in the New Pacific Order will continue to fight the good fight against these would be despots.

Malcontents. Rabblerousers. The type of people who rail against the status quo for the sole reason that it's the status quo. The rebellious types. Also prone to the "Too Cool For School Syndrome." It's not hard to figure out what kind of people join Vox Populi.