Beauty

So recently there's been a small argument because Mogar was looking at Nation stats and using that ICly to say he could beat everyone in SEATO except Mael. He raises a good point that he can use the Wiki like in real life to see that Vietnam would lose to China in the real world. What can we do or where is the line drawn between looking at Stats in your CN nation and using that ICly?

I'm glad you used that. Because IRL China could beat Japan. So your comment about you could take down Shanghai, Amur, and Tongzhi means you assume Japan could beat Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam, and China in a war. Now seriously do the spy rolls or some context. At least roleplay analyzing satellite data and using that. Or even cite where the Tongzhi defense budget is made public. You made an IRC comment you could roll everyone except Mael because I'd be below 5k NS forever. That is why im saying that.

No i would feel greatly much more better if you do the spy rolls despite my chances. I'm not here to win or lose, I am here to Roleplay. Simply looking at my nation's stats then gaining a "I can beat you" attitude ICly is not acceptable in my eyes. We're here to roleplay. I am not looking to argue. I have always hated the looking at stats and getting a big head or even the opposite in IC. Ask former CDT members, we've talked about that before and wrote our posts in context that we wouldn't even look at their stats in game so we don't get big or small headed "Accidentally". Do the spy rolls and then im perfectly OK with it. For example and context, in the real world we do not know about China's military capabilities or Russias. We assume they're great from what we know. We don't actually know they're great or their numbers though. That is my point and that is how I want to roleplay here.

Tongzhi National Media Channel: Tongzhi Representative locked in SEATO Headquarters After a disagreement with Japan, Tongzhi Representative to SEATO Ying Shung Tao has texted the Department of Foreign Affairs with the following message "Security stopped from leaving, locked in. Japan and Tongzhi issues are not solved." the message was concerning to Foreign Affairs officials and attempts are being made to contact the SEATO headquarters to figure out what is going on. At the current time Tongzhi officials are flabbergasted and confused on where the issue will go next or what is going on. This situation is developing and we will be back on the topic at 9 to inform on just what is going on in the SEAT headquarters.

"Tongzhi abstained to the Japanese entering the treaty on grounds of repeated expansion. We let that go. Tongzhi asked for Japan to keep weapons down on the islands to our south, Not only for Druk Yul, but for Tongzhi as missiles could be fired from the South, South East, and north of Tongzhi. We feared for that as Japan has had friends turn to enemies quickly in the past. We let that go. We asked for Japan to keep an eye on Persia in the Islands to the north of the islands we ask them to limit presence on. We were ignored. Needless to say we attempted to monitor Islands to the east of us due to our historical ties to the Islands, and it appears Japan has already moved in to claim them under their empire's protection. We simply can not trust them near us and the islands right beside us on all sides to be armed to the fullest extent. If Japan were above observer status, we would feel better; however they are not. We simply fear for their future moves after the threats and insults at this time. We try to resolve it peacefully, and Japan insults us. That is why I was returning to let me government know of the current situation. We've already been threatened with asking to "Act" upon us for attempting to ask Japan for negotiations. It is with this duty, I ask to speak with the Government of Tongzhi on future actions and potential threats to our nation from Japan." The Representative fiddles with her phone.

Well ok Sarah Palin, but I don't know how you'd know my military size.

That's false. Satellite Intelligence reveals where things are and the likes, however we do not know ever weapon the US or China has in the real world. It's "Top Secret" and satellites won't see how many troops you have. There's not men sitting there counting every man the Chinese Army has. Also as a new nation you'd have to analyze SATINT for a small period of time before you knew my exact OOC stats. Theres also the fact that things can be falsified on Satellite Intelligence. We recently found out one of North Korea's Nuclear sites were fake. Anyways you get my point, don't get a big head over OOC stats.

OOC to Mogar to prevent clogging SEATO or anyone's threads. This is in reference to this post. No offense or anything, but keep OOC out of IC please. You have done no spy operations on any of SEATO's nations or roleplayed seeing our forces to my knowledge, at this time you have no idea if I'm larger than you militarily or not. I'm assuming you're gathering of this information OOCly, due to your IC remarks the other day about Mael is the only one you wouldn't be able to win against ICly. I'm trying to keep it IC safe by preventing war at all costs and assuming your nations forces are large due to your frequent wars and expansions. I'd recommend doing a spy operation before you comment further on my military size. My nation is simply reformed from a time when it went unstable. I could have my nuclear missiles still and have a massive army under your knowledge as could Shanghai, Amur, or Mael. You also do not know Mael's massive forces ICly. Don't base your IC responses or info on OOC stats. I've avoided reporting it to GMs and don't care if it goes on from this point without an edit, just keep the roleplay accordingly in the future.

The Insults exclaiming Tongzhi was uneducated were met with shock, as was the statement by Japan stating they've hypothecized a war with SEATO members but only feared Druk Yul. It came as more of a shock when Japan exclaimed: "The Imperium has the longest history of any nation in our world, and we will continue to remain as the leader of the Western Pacific regardless of the slander you wish to throw in our direction." The government of Tongzhi rejected making any further statements and began to meet back at their government headquarters.

CLASSIFIED "We will agree to see this from your view and close your past record. We do however see your point of view from the joining of SEATO. We would be interested in working out a deal though. Tongzhi removes it's stance on Japan's expansion into the Nicobar and Andaman Islands as long as Japan promises to keep an eye on Non-SEATO member islands nearby and offer to be able to react swiftly in case of Expansion of their own into nearby regions that are Protected or Sovereign." OOC: Just incase you're not already aware, HoS Thiam is a bit Xenophobic in general.

Private to Members: "Tongzhi is un-easy seeing more expansion from Japan into the Andaman islands. As we have conveyed privately, the only offensive mannerisms they can take on those islands are against Druk Yul and Tongzhi. Seeing Japan's past and war like stance, they are a treaty partner. However we have seen Hawaii's friendship with Japan break and Japan using offenses there. We have seen former China fight a nuclear war with Japan after Japan's expansions. We have also been aware of the conflict between Shanghai and Japan over Japan's expansions. The Islands give too much of an advantage and makes us feel uneasy. That is why we have asked for a negotiation on only defensive weaponry: I.E. Radar, Missile Defenses, Low number of ground forces, and a small airbase only on the Islands.It is Tongzhi's opinion we are unwary of Japan, even as a treaty partner. With offensive capabilities on an Island that can only be used logically against other treaty members, we find great unease. Should the Island have been in front of us, as the Paracels were claimed by Japan, no discussion would of taken place as it offers a slight advantage. However we have seen wars on three fronts play out on the past and they're much more damaging to the nation fighting three fronts. We simply can't trust Japan, however we are not looking for military action. We are simply asking them to handle it peacefully and not put things on the islands to make us feel uneasy. We are willing to negotiate, but we simply can not see Japan as a close friend as we have had no interaction with them. The only thing we have seen is massive expansion and war for those who oppose it in the slightest degree. We in the Transitional Government feel as if we have to put our foot down in this situation as to not risk what happened to Hawaii, Shanghai, or the Two Chinas happen to us. We have expressed this quietly, but now it is growing too large. We have and will not engage in aggression via Economic or Military means, but we ask a treaty partner that Japan attempt to negotiate with us or help us not feel so uneasy."

CLASSIFIED via Private Channels "We are aware, however, you have expanded quite greatly over the past few months. You have been engaged in a few wars as well. So far as we see you have not acted aggressively towards us, but in the past you have towards other nations near you who hold onto land that your empire wants. We have held our concerns privately, but having the capabilities of putting aggressive forces on the islands allows you to hit Tongzhi from 3 separate angles with Military Capabilities. While you are a treaty partner and we respect you in our eyes, we cannot risk the vast advantage of you having such power while your expansion continues. We would prefer good relations, and we do not know why you need the islands for offensive purposes as so far the only offensive measures you can take out there are on SEATO members. We hope you understand our concerns and once again request to only carry defensive capabilities on the islands."

"Tongzhi will pay the 1 million on the condition that BMC set up at least 3 factories for production of the car in cities of it's choosing in Tongzhi. This is asked due to the large shipping costs it would take, and to gain affordability for our people as well as extra jobs to do so. We have a medium sized manufacturing industry and will require the factories be of Tongzhi's Standards."

Eh.... What is the policy on disputing? I'd gladly retract the intent if Mogar goes along with the proposal in his thread.

"The Nation of Tongzhi is strongly opposed to any military action taking place on these islands and would like to request that Japan put no Military Weaponry other than radar or missile defense systems on the Islands as the expansion poses a threat to sovereignty of nearby nations. The Tourist Islands shall remain civil and without military presence other than defense capabilities. Offense weapons as in missiles other than defensive missiles would be strongly opposed by Tongzhi."

"The Nation of Tongzhi would like to inquire pictures of said Vehicles as well as inspect a model which we pay for to insure great quality."

Embassy of Japan Status: Constructed The Tongzhi Government has purchased and ordered a hasty remodeling of an embassy in Hanoi for the Japanese Ambassadors. An official document was sent to the Japanese Government allowing them the go ahead to move into their respected embassy.

"No I want to keep it and decide who sits there" "No, me!" "No, MEEEE!" This is why we shouldn't have protectorates and only annexation. Until selfishness stops, or people want to stop "protecting" land until they can claim it without looking like an asshat, we will have these disputes. Protectorates cause so much un-necessary drama. Anyways not the appropriate place, just wanted to add my two cents. Meh.

"Tongzhi hereby appoints Fang Chao as Ambassador of Tongzhi-Belarussian affairs and to be dispatched to Belarus. We are glad to have relations restored."

"The Republic thanks Hungary-Slovakia for it's quick reply and appoint Ambassador Jun Hao to represent Tongzhi in the Great Nation of Hungary-Slovakia"

Wary of the Japanese and their current Regime, The Head of State holds a small meeting before consulting the Empire of Japan.

"Tongzhi wishes to thank its future friends for a warm welcome back as we re-declare our sovereignty."

Well thanks for being fair on this. I've been wrong in a lot of my judgement I've passed onto people lately and assumed it was just because they were hopping on. I was wrong about you and a few others. Thank you for the advice. He's been rolled by myself once and you paid me to roll the guy when you didnt know it was me. You built my nation, sold a lot of infra and such to conduct Operation Repo, and you rebuilt. So I did a lot of indirect damage to you already. :3 Rotavele Insurgency imo.

Sounds appropriate to me! Thanks!

From the past it was enforced anyway when Tywin rolled in and it was made to not matter when TBM rolled it. So yeah a vote would be good.