ShadowChaos

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[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281583529' post='2412113'] You are nowhere near correct. You have a contractual obligation to defend your protectorate, but an attack on TENE is not an attack on RoK, the treaty does not confer some transitive property onto warfare. Furthermore, military attack, which the treaty specifies, is a separate act of war from the act of aiding enemies. Therefore, no act of war was committed onto RoK, only onto TENE. This would be different had RoK contacted NSO before attacking the nation, and asked NSO to release him for attack. In fact they didn't really need NSO's permission, they merely needed to explain why the guy was an enemy of RoK. They couldn't do even that. [/quote] That's where you're wrong. It states in the Ragnablok that [b]An attack on any of the undersigned protectorates will be considered an attack on Ragnarok[/b]. Read [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Ragnablok#III._Protection_and_Defense:]Article III[/url] of Ragnablok before you post.

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281579493' post='2411990'] Okay this argument is dumb but somehow has to defend basic logic. RoK declaring war on us, or anyone, does not prove anything about whether an attack on TENE is an act of war against RoK. That whole statement is just a pile of mush, really. [/quote] Actually, it does. read the Ragnablok. The rogue attacking a protectorate, in this case TENE, is an attack on Ragnarok. If you didn't want war, then you should've waited for your proof before ordering your alliance to aid the rogue. You were told that if you aided the rogue, Hoo would declare war on you. Now stop complaining and fight.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281577803' post='2411913'] I did not claim it means nothing. I claimed that writing something down does not make it true. The world would be pretty awesome if you could just write stuff down and it became a reality, but that's not how it works. Just like Hoo is not god and he cannot dictate things to make them a reality. Although admittedly some people seem to think he is, including Hoo himself. [/quote] Oh? So you're claiming that Protectorates isn't true, and that we (RoK) don't need to defend the signatory alliances of Ragnablok, a Protectorate Blok. Am I right then? [quote name='Burning Glory' timestamp='1281578098' post='2411917'] MY OPINION.....This sounds like a bunch of " he said, she said " BS! Far as I can tell and unless I missed it some where, THERE IS NO PROOF the so called Rouge nation spied on the Tene nation. With that said and even if it were true, Ragnarok should have produced evidence to back up such claims before attacking NSO and made all possible attempts to get it handled diplomatically. Just remember, sooner or later "what comes around goes around" BG. [/quote] There is Proof that the Rogue is attacking TENE, an alliance in Ragnablok, a Protectorate Blok. [b]EDIT[/b]: And there's also Proof that NSO aided the Rogue after Hoo said he would declare war if they (NSO) aided the rogue.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281572340' post='2411779'] Another act of war is when RoK nations declared on the NSO member without RoK notifying NSO of the reasons for such actions. Now, this line of reasoning isn't my favorite thing to pick at, and so I'm going to go at it differently: The sending of aid was an act of war [i]against TENE[/i] because the TENE wars had not yet achieved peace. This is the reason, and the [u]only[/u] reason, why Heft was in error to send the aid. Just because Hoo says something is an act of war does not make it an act of war, and in fact no act of war was ever committed against RoK, only against TENE. But this is a distraction from the point, and the overall point is that from the very [i]instant[/i] that the act of war was committed against TENE, other officials in NSO recognized it for the mistake it was and swiftly moved in an attempt to correct the issue. Thus, the war instigated by RoK is not justified in that it was [i]not necessary[/i] to get NSO to comply and repair any damages done onto TENE or even RoK. NSO was willing and complicit to correct the issue. This war is an unjustified display of force by an aggressive, war-mongering alliance. [/quote] Actually, if you actually read Ragnablok, you would've seen it's an act of war against both TENE and RoK: [quote name='Ragnablok'] III. Protection and Defense: In the event that any signatory alliance is attacked, all signatory members are encouraged though not required to provide aid via military and financial means except for Ragnarok who assumes responsibility for the well-being of all of the undersigned members. [b]An attack on any of the undersigned protectorates will be considered an attack on Ragnarok.[/b] Ragnarok will attempt to resolve such an issue on the behalf of the protectorates through diplomatic means before force is ever used. [/quote] Read the bold that i bolded for you. [b]EDIT[/b]: [quote name='Adrian LaCroix' timestamp='1281573136' post='2411796'] An act of war against TENE is an act of war against RoK, if you read the protectorate agreement. [/quote] Dang, you beat me to it. lol.

[quote name='Adrian LaCroix' timestamp='1281564739' post='2411616'] I've not read TENE's protectorate treaty specifically, but most such treaties are set up such that an attack on the protectorate is an attack on the protector. At least, that's always how I've written them up. [/quote] You are correct. [quote name='RagnaBlok'] III. Protection and Defense: In the event that any signatory alliance is attacked, all signatory members are encouraged though not required to provide aid via military and financial means except for Ragnarok who assumes responsibility for the well-being of all of the undersigned members. [b]An attack on any of the undersigned protectorates will be considered an attack on Ragnarok.[/b] Ragnarok will attempt to resolve such an issue on the behalf of the protectorates through diplomatic means before force is ever used.[/quote]

[quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1281557580' post='2411463'] If we are going to do this now, I am obligated to point out that it was Rok that ignored diplomatic courtesy by attacking a nation we had admitted without providing proof of wrong-doing. See, I can do the same thing that you can. [/quote] Learn your facts. TENE is RoK's protectorate. meaning that RoK was already at war with the rogue the monent the rogue declared on a TENE nation. "A Protectorate Treaty is where a large alliance agrees to defend a smaller one from attack. It differs from a Mutual Defense Pact in that the larger alliance does not generally require help from the smaller one in the event the larger alliance is attacked. It is essentially a "one-way MDP". " - CN Wiki

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1281555628' post='2411439'] [color="#0000FF"]We determined that he had been attacked. Spy operations and threatening letters. We saw it as self-defense and let him in on good faith. When RoK approached us we asked for the logs and made clear that whether not you'd be able to attack rested on those. Had you provided we likely would have given permission, but you completely ignore diplomatic courtesy.[/color] [/quote] It is you that ignored diplomatic courtesy. If you really wanted spoof, you (NSO) would've waited on sending aid to the rogue after you were told by Hoo what would happen if you do, and instead of waiting you aided the rogue. So the fault is on your alliance.

o/ Ragnarok o/ SLCB

I say AoD should get rolled. ... Oh, and probably RoK too.

All your base are belong to us. oh wait, wrong channel. Congrats RoK and UINE. o/ RoK o/ UINE P.S: I too demand a refund, Joe Stupid.

RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10 RoK - 10

i'm withdrawing from this circle as i've joined another one.

bump

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