Ryan Greenberg

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300400774' post='2668309'] For the record, in WotC, Polar fully deserved what they got. They had yet to pay for their sins. This is different, NPO has paid it's dues and has long since changed as an alliance. The term "noCB" refers exclusively to side drama between, what was it, GGA and Hyperion? This war is, however, definitely born out of paranoia and hate. [/quote] The reasons for the war was for a grudge. Not going to argue it though....and yes....I know the GGA war was noCB.

[quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1300399608' post='2668254'] The statement "if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue" could be made about [b][color="#FF0000"]EVERY WAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE CYBERVERSE[/color][/b] War continues until peace terms are agreed on. That's how war works. That doesn't make it a perma-war. It makes it a [b]war[/b]. [/quote] It's different this war. You declared on NPO because they grew back, because you were paranoid about them, because they were a potential "threat", because you had a grudge against them. This CB is as good as the Coalition's DoW on New Polar Order. The CB is so bad that NPO shouldn't succumb to your demands for peace.

The Moldavi Doctrine was announced at the time when the anti-tech raiding bandwagons were getting larger. It was all apart of the atmosphere of the era. Wheather NSO wanted that or not.

The Moralist Era First off, sorry for !@#$%* grammer. I sucks at it.... Second, this is my opinion on the issue. Deal with it. Nostalgia. Some are nostaligic about the original three Great Wars. Some are nostaligc about the WUT Hegemony and the Unjust War. Some are nostalgic about the NPO Hegemony and the noCB War. Some are nostalgic about the Vox Era and the Karma War. I am here to show you a timeline about one of Cyber Nations' most odd and confusing eras: The Moralist Era. Driven by Post-Karma paranoia on how the "brave new world" should be handled, the time period from the end of the Karma War to TOP's Declaration of War on MK, will always be remembered as one of the most interesting and odd time periods in Cyber Nations' illustrious history. Some say yes, some say no.... The Moralist Era(7/6/09-1/28/10) July 6th, 2009 Echelon Outrage: The Moralist Era began on July 6th, 2009. No doubt about it. During the peak of the Karma War, you did see Hegemonist arguements on how Karma was being unfair, but their arguements were overwhelmed by those on the Karma side. No one really cared what anyone had to say. NPO and their Hegemony were going to lose once and for all. The criminals were finally going to be punished. The sheer euphoria of Karma's victory brought an aura of general optimism to the Cyberverse. That was until Echelon's surrender thread. What started out as a normal peace thread of hailings turned into a 45 page PR disastor for the victors. The surrender terms included harsh reps and the banning of Caffine1 from Echelon government. Though some argued that Echelon deserved it for their part in the Hegemony, does that excuse anyone from giving terms as harsh as the one's given to them? Some say yes, others say no. Almighty Grub's Post:The official beginning of the Moralist Era(imo) began with former NpO Emperor AlmightyGrub's post on the terms given to Echelon, and the one's proposed to NPO. The topic expressed the dissapointment of the Karma coalition and the anger of the reps. Many, including some fighting for Karma, hailed the post. "Moralism" would explode after this. August 2009 The Second Moldavi Doctrine: The Second Moldavi Doctrine would be the doctrine of all Moralist basically. The whole "anti-tech raid" craze was beginning to heat up at this point. With Karma over, many looked for a new enemy and a new goal to make the "brave new world" a better place. The big topic issue during the Moralist Era was tech raiding. On one end you have the ex-Hegemony/NpO/STA/TOP and on the other you have GOONS/Athens/PC/\m//Super Grievences. With Ivan's new doctrine, when any alliance thought that a mass raid was wrong, they could use the Moldavi Doctrine and declare on the aggressor. Ironically, the only time it was used would be the big step towards the end of the Moralist Era. IS-CG War: The first mass tech raid the Cyberverse would see would be the Internet Superheroes attack on the Crimson Guard. Thw war would be short. Only two days. During those two days however, drama unfolded between Moralist and IS supporters. IS was supported by their Pink sphere allies in RAD and PC. CG was supported by....Invicta, OO, STA, Vires Noctu, CoJ, USCN, tC, TIO, Menotah, and tRE. Not one of those alliances held a treaty with IS. The Cyberverse wondered if the Moldavi Doctrine would be used to start a seventh global war. Unfortunately for war hawks, IS succumbed to the pressure and paid reps to CG. The first crisis in the Moralist Era had been resolved. Crisis in Novemeber Knights of Ni!: Of all the stupid things to do in late 2009....what Athens and CnG did is simply mind boggling. At this point, Moralism is at an all time high. The Moldavi Doctrine had been declared, Moralist won the IS-CG crisis, and tech raiding popularity was at an all time low. Why on earth did Athens and CnG decide to mass raid a helpless 40 man alliance? Doesn't really matter. Point is, Athens and KoN! reached an agreement. Regardless, this almost led to war between NpO and others and Athens. Once the issue was settled, the crisis was settled. War was avoided. January and the end of the Moralist Era NpO-\m/ War: After the infamous WWE(Worst War Ever) between TPF and RoK, the Cyberverse was getting angsty for war as usual. It came when PC, GOONS, and \m/ raided the small alliance of FoA. Just like the Knight of Ni! crisis, the aggressors eventually reached an agreement. Emperor Almighty Grub of NpO didn't really care. He, along with a bunch of others, were sick of the mass raiding. They were sick of raiders screaming out "Moralist scum. They were sick of the current state of the game. The New Polar Order declared war on \m/ to stop the mass raidings that always happened every other month and to set an example. TOP-CnG War: The end of the Moralist Era: The Moralist Era died on January 28th, 2010. The date in which NpO peaced out with \m/(as you see Grub wanted white peace as he stated in the NpO DoW) and the date in which TOP/IRON declared their infamous war on Complaints and Grievences. The NpO/TOP coalition would have won the war if screw up didn't happen. It was a total disastor from all sides. At this point, TOP were outnumbered and getting rolled, and NpO's declaration on GOD and reentry didn't help the Moralist comeback. The final nail in the coffin to the Moralist Era occured when the New Polar Order declared war on TOP, in defense of MK. The Moralist Era had ended.

[quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' timestamp='1300389543' post='2667996'] Actually, what is asinine is NPO’s hypocrisy in general and your own hypocrisy in particular. You insist that NPO changed when it did not alter anything to the least degree. NPO initiated Karma and had its butt kicked to the curb for its troubles and yet NPO and you, its apparent chief apologist, continue to insist that it was not at fault. Post Karma, it used Sir Paul’s little one step beyond the truth rag to belittle other alliances while maintaining that it had transformed. NPO whined like a cur in heat that nobody would allow it to put its past behind while at the same time feeling no necessity to forgive and forget SethB’s reputed actions. NPO demasked foreign diplomats and closed foreign embassies all the while claiming it was trying to diplomatically mend its fences. NPO makes its self-serving apologies and you defend, without apology, your repudiation of your own apology. There is no change and NPO is getting stomped for the third time because NPO and you could not refrain from being arrogant and egotistical. You are not helping the order’s cause. I suggest that you and NPO alter course and deal with-it. If you do not, NPO is going to be an asterisk in history. tl;dr: [IMG]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r160/qinqe/CN%20Graphics/AS6NPOmoldavi.png[/IMG] [/quote] Really? That's the best you got? Not only is it 100% biased, but it is a pretty weak reasoning for a CB. You make GGA look like the god of finding great CB's

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300383964' post='2667854'] Karma was a war to stop npo. The promises of a world without any evil and any surrender terms were words put in our mouth by the opposition. We didn't engage in that war to become a world police that would rid the world of any evil, we have no right to do that in the first place. We wanted to stop npo and we did just that.[/quote] Maybe the elite thinks of Karma in that light, but the majority wanted to end this kind of Hegemonic !@#$. It is pretty clear at this point that Karma was never a war to end the crimes of Pacifica. It was a grudge war. Simple as that. Enjoy your time as top dog DH. Think of this war as NPO's noCB. People won't forget. You won't survive the next.

[quote name='greenacres' timestamp='1300364467' post='2667604'] I'm not going to read the entire thread, but has it been pointed out already that the NPO once served up almost the exact same terms to someone they were at war with? I hope no one is crying about these terms and saying they're unfair/unprecedented [/quote] Then why was Karma fought? Originally, it was fought to stop eternal wars, harsh reps, no CB wars, end Pacifica's Hegemony, etc, etc. DH can say all it wants on how "we're not as bad as NPO". That isn't the point. The point is, DH used a CB of [quote] We cannot allow any chance of a return to power by the New Pacific Order. For years they ruled with an iron fist. They engineered a multitude of first strike "curbstomps," the most grossly abusive among them being the glibly named Woodstock Masscre against the Green Protection Agency. Never one to face an enemy with an even remote chance of victory, and always one to beat on the weak and the vulnerable, the New Pacific Order was a true master of the first strike attack. They could not only beat down the weak, but they had maneuvered the politics of the day such that they could do so with impunity.[/quote] They were afriad NPO would return to NPO circa 2008. They had no proof other than a long and heated rivalry/grudge(clearly a weak CB). NPO doesn't need to succumb to the demands of the enemy who hate them(IC of course). Just like how FAN didn't need to listen to NPO. How does this make DH "the good guys"?

[quote name='Lysol' timestamp='1300352715' post='2667520'] Yeah, NpO had a treaty with the grand hedgemeister of them all, NPO, and canceled on them mid war after refusing to come to their aid. How dishonorable NpO is.. [/quote] It also had treaties with others on Karma and you better actually check the reasoning on why that treaty was cancelled.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300344376' post='2667366'] How so? [/quote] Because you're giving an ultimatum to NPO. "Accept our demands or face eternal war". How can you not see the hypocrisy in this? You knowingly went into this war. There are no refunds. Deal with it.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300343971' post='2667350'] I only cited the top 61 since it's a glaring and compelling example. Many more of your nations hide in peace mode, the overwhelming majority of which are your strong and capable. I do not wish to thump your meek tiers in perpetuity. I wish to have our fight, the fight MK and NPO have always been destined to have, and end this. [/quote] MK and NPO already fought in the noCB War. [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300344012' post='2667352'] I think they'll come around soon enough. [/quote] Pathetic.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300343833' post='2667347'] Because I believe they'll enjoy the assault on the Kingdom as much as we'll enjoy tearing up their upper ranks. I have no illusions about this: if they accept, it is my alliance that will stand front and center against their response, more than any other. So many seem to subscribe to this illusion that NPO's emergence will see them destroyed without cost to the destroyers. I do not demand unilateral annihilation. I demand satisfaction, y'all. [/quote] Looking at the posts Pacificans have made here, they won't accept this. I guess that means eternal war until they accept the offer?

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300343387' post='2667328'] A month of war followed by termless surrender is far less painful than gargantuan reps that take months and months to pay off. [/quote] What makes you think NPO should listen to your ultimatums?

In response to Doomhouse's threat to NPO, I think it's time to bring back an old friend.... [img]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/TiagoJeronimo/WaPropaganda.png[/img]

[quote name='The Warrior' timestamp='1300342143' post='2667277'] I hope that you are sorely disappointed then. Your word isn't worth anything to Pacifica at this point. Karma was largely believed to be the war which paid the hegemony back for their tyranny, and it served it's purpose. You managed to keep the hegemonic lords locked in reparation payments for over a year and now that they have rebuilt and failed to issue an apology you have decided to strike them. If after one month of fighting, DH feels although they have not done enough damage to Pacifica, you will only continue to destroy them or impose reps again. It seems like an asinine thing to do for Pacifica to leave pm to suit your desires when there is no guarantee that your month of war is enough to end this. [/quote] Karma did nothing. It was a grudge war. The rhetoric was mostly propaganda. Hell, most of the Karma alliances were in the Hegemony until the very end...

In other news, I'm guessing FAN and NoR didn't stoop down to this level of hypocrisy?

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1300340960' post='2667201'] The tripe I'm reading from DH in this thread is unbelievable. You guys do understand that you were the aggressive attackers in this whole thing right? NPO not licking your boots prior to the outbreak of war is no CB. And now you expect them to offer themselves up like lambs for the slaughter and destroy the work of 2 years building? I'd have rejected those terms too. [/quote] Time to bring back an old friend: [img]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u190/TiagoJeronimo/WaPropaganda.png[/img] Karma did nothing.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1300339104' post='2667140'] We intend to stay at war until they acquiesce to the term. [/quote] So if they don't accept it....it's FAN all over again. Karma did nothing it seems.

Say NPO rejects this. Will Doomhouse give them harsh reps just because they were in peace mode and rejected this offer? Harsh reps and a CB of trying to weaken a potential threat and to win a heated grudge? How does that make this war all that different from NPO's wars with GATO, GPA, or MK.... or TOP's war with BLEU?

What happens if NPO rejects this? Eternal war? Terrible reps?

[quote name='AAAAAAAAAAGGGG' timestamp='1300335330' post='2666950'] I don't get the hailing of no reps. Reps have their place, we just find them to be an extremely inefficient way of getting tech, is all. [/quote] I'm not a Moralist. Nice try in your attempt to bait me though. Edit: Reps suck btw. Just my opinion

[quote name='askani the rotund' timestamp='1300335134' post='2666937'] What exactly would we have been paying reparations for? [/quote] Grudges, losing the war, paranoia, peace mode

Hypocrisy at it's best

Things aren't looking good...that's for sure.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1300296221' post='2666529'] o/ PB et al [/quote] I really don't think PB likes TOP. And if they do....that's pretty funny.

Because clearly UPN and GATO only fought GOD... Not saying GOD are terrible fighters btw. Had fun against you in Bipolar