Vhalen

Can we make this a sticky so the next ten alliances to disassociate themselves with him don't need to make their own?

If they weren't, Umbrella would be attacking them. ;)

Your nation does kind of smell funny.

At least you have the sense not to act surprised.

Hmm...well, your BIBO text certainly sounds more like "nukes will be used" than this. I guess I can put it down to poor phrasing. Admin knows THAT wouldn't be a CN first. Sure, just gloss over the important bits. ;)

As far as this goes, I'm far enough removed that I don't really give a rat's posterior, but I presume it was considered slot filling because there weren't nukes in play? Your quote about BIBO, which seems to have mysteriously disappeared from my quotomat, says: "Signatories of it agreed to receive nukes if they ever chose to leave Umbrella." Since you can't aid people nukes, this seems pretty clear. Am I missing something?

These two quotes go together, because if anybody's winning this war through sheer entertainment value, it's Ubuntu. o/ Interesting character play! You, sir, are too wise for this thread. Pack up your things. Off you go, now. ;)

Nah, I call that "deserting," but I'm sure deserters call it something else. ;)

Assuming immediate bill lock strikes me as awfully optimistic. It's pretty difficult to keep a nation in nuclear anarchy when the other side has the numbers and nukes advantages, and you yourself are in nuclear anarchy. Who's going to declare the next war? The "numbers game" is pretty simple, honestly. One side gets to collect out of nuclear anarchy, and it's not the side with the smaller numbers. As for WC/aid, as has been previously pointed out, 60k is the same as 160k (or for that matter, 360k) so far as aid goes. If, as you propose, this war is going to be settled by aid, you'd think that would come down to simple numbers as well.

This is almost certainly false. There's no way one of these bazillion alliances doesn't have someone over 110k sitting in PM with a crappy WC or RL obligations or what have you, who'll never get hit. I know, I know, that's not what you meant. But it's what you said. ;)

You make it sound like you'll be declaring on 60k nations next week. ;) Look, I'm not arguing that it's impossible for high end nations to downdeclare, just that it's going to be harder to find targets where they won't end up wasting a lot of resources and climbing down into the grinder. (I grant you, I'm not sure how heavy the middle-high imbalance is, but it seemed to be about 4-5 to 1.) In your particular case, I suspect the top 250 bar will find itself clogged by neutrals and noncombatants pretty soon. Barring an unprovoked war on GPA/etc, you'll have to sell off more than tanks and planes. If you dump navy to declare, you basically concede the seas to your opposition, and battle support does a lot to counter the other guys' tech disadvantage. If you dump a bunch of infra, don't expect to win too many GAs. I guess you could buy it back after you declare, but frankly, the amount of WC you'd tear through for a significant sell/buyback, one could argue that the other side won that fight before it began. IMO, you're also painting a rather rosy picture of downdeclares. The "top end" nations ideally want to pick and choose their opponents, rather than dipping down and getting caught in a constant numbers grind. And keep in mind that infra comes back a lot easier/faster than tech. A prolonged "siege" of the top end threatens to end how all sieges do. The guys in the castle starve. "Over one round of war" is the key phrase here. That's the short term, and obviously what DH would prefer. Given how CN wars tend to go, however, it's rather foolish to draw conclusions based on the short term. Over three or four rounds of war, constantly outnumbered, the Umbrella nation will be lucky to manage to nuke one opponent a day on average (I think it's 0.8 hits if you buy two and fire both?), whereas he's guaranteed to eat one daily, and his attackers would stand to climb in total nuke count by war round's end. The Umbrella guy either has to distribute damage and affect his targets much less overall than he hoped, or concentrate it and affect most of them not at all. And unless he burns billions rebuying infra to retain a size advantage, he doesn't stand to win many ground battles after the first couple of days. Even then, any coordination at all will have him taking regular GA hits, and the later-round attackers would be able to pick and choose who fights. Basic numbers game. Edit: Indian Bob summed up a lot of what I'd written, but I didn't feel like rewriting it, so there ya go. ;) Also, I don't mean to make it sound like a "sunshine and rainbows" proposition for either side. It's a matter of who's more willing to get thrashed, I think. IMO, it's in Umbrella's best interests to conclude hostilities as quickly as possible, retaining the massive up-front damage they put in, while avoiding the grind. Edit2: Furthermore, at least this war's providing an interesting and different situation from most past ones, huh? I think we can all agree on that.

Getting back to the subject of the threat a little: When (if) the war reaches the point where the high-tier bar has been lowered under 100k NS, Umbrella's top end will have essentially been removed from the fight, no? (Yes, I know "aid," but as has been pointed out somewhere I'm too lazy to find to quote, that extra NS is irrelevant for aid purposes.) I haven't studied all this in detail or anything, so feel free to correct me if I'm way off base, but if the "mid-tier" numbers are as they've been represented, it seems like it'd turn into a pretty one-sided beatdown at that point.

It's a service to the global community.

Didn't do any, just checked the alliance roster list and the war list. It was meant to be a quick quip, not an in-depth analysis. However, I suspect the variance can be attributed in part to AA nameswapping, which I didn't take into account, because, as I said, I didn't put that much effort into this.

I'm not gonna check on a nation by nation basis, but with 83 war mode nations and 250 wars, I'm sure Umbrella has lots of free slots left to blitz. ;)

Wait, I'm a'sposta keep track of names and dates? I'm lucky if I know what alliance I'm in now.

[quote name='Fyfe XIV' timestamp='1296241576' post='2607744'] Is it really necessary for VE to make an entire topic devoted to declaring on a 27 man alliance? [/quote] You say that like making a topic's tremendously difficult and time-consuming. Look, I'm not judging anyone. I doubt there was a great deal of consideration given when the blog DoW was posted. IMO, we ought to all call this a lesson learned, and try to keep DoWs where DoWs traditionally go, where people look for them and expect them, rather than put them where it seems like they're hidden. It's just easier not to have to go chasing everything down in obscure corners.

Yeah, I didn't know if it was your end or mine, but I suspected yours (since usually I get a bounce-back in the rare occurrences when one doesn't go through). Glad everything's solved now, though I don't envy you sorting through about 250 emails. That sounds tiring.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1293028968' post='2549979'] I haven't seen your other flag. This piece of graphics in the OP is pleasing to the eyes though. Is your official flag better? [/quote] I dunno. I'm not all that impressed with it, and therefore I'm withholding cake from our Betsy Ross. [quote name='hoff10' timestamp='1293042903' post='2550182'] Is Legacy kind of a big deal? [/quote] I hope so. Otherwise I was misled, and I hate being misled almost as much as I hate being led in the first place.

I know I've gotten resources that weren't perfect before, and I immediately threw my hands in the air and quit CN in frustrated fury. Why not let you make as many nations as you want on the first day, so long as you just keep one of them? Look, randomized resources are part of the game. True, they're not all the same, but most of the bad ones aren't as bad in TE, and truly terrible combinations are few and far between. Besides, two days doesn't kill anyone. With a competent group who can help you with trades, you ought to be fine. Even without one, you don't lose much from that couple of days. I know; I've rerolled and come in 4th.

I think you're under the mistaken impression that this is some sort of cunning plot to orchestrate an environment where I would win every round. I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion, but I regret to inform you that's not the case. You seem to think that walking away without a flag is utter failure, and because I haven't, I'm worthless. Fact is, I barely make an effort, and certainly not a concerted one. I don't particularly expect to win. Heck, I don't know what I'd do with the flag if I got it. What I expect is to make a good showing, either by ending up with a respectable NS/rank, or by tearing a hole in everyone who fights me. My goals are fluid, and thus far, I can look at every round as it ends and come away satisfied with my showing. Assuming your goals as you present them, you've failed almost every time. Congrats. Look, you seem to think the flag is the end all, be all of this. It isn't. My suggestion was intended to improve gameplay...you know, while people are still playing. But by all means, let's shoot everything down with bitterness and fury. I'm sure when you're the only one left, your odds at a flag will be pretty good. As for your "education," don't worry about it. I have no desire to attend your academy. I don't want to end up bitter and miserable. I mean, it's the sort of place where you complain an alternative would be random, then turn around and say things are unpredictable currently. Make up your mind. Now then...on your comments about alternatives: The element of luck can be trimmed a great deal. There's no way planes should be worth as much NS as they are. It's silly. It's "fake NS" that you get at the end of the round, and as you yourself essentially said, it's an unwarranted, unaffordable expense except when you know the round will end in 5 minutes. Make planes cheaper and worth less NS, and they'll be used more AS PLANES. Right now, they're just a silly statue. (By the way, this is a GOOD IDEA regardless of the random-end-of-round thing.) Also, I believe I stated quite clearly (though evidently not clearly enough for you) that there's no way I would directly use casualties as a measuring stick. It's foolish, and at least as artificial as buying those last-second planes. Maybe incorporate a metric that looks at war victories per casualty count, and reward people for offense. I don't know. I just think the way it is now, there are too many glaring flaws.

I never claimed it was "necessary," only that it would be a distinct improvement. I enjoy your personal attacks as an argument against my suggestion, however. That's quite a productive approach. You don't think that a random end time would improve gameplay? It would take away the "last second surge," forcing those people to play for lasting strength instead of building a house of cards at the final moment (if their schedules permit them being on at update of the reset.) It would force warring alliances to think on a loose timescale instead of a rigidly defined one, thus increasing variance in play and requiring MORE strategy. (Note that I didn't even suggest it being a random time of day, though I think that'd be a fine idea as well.) As to your "complaints" comment, Instr, if the major worry is people complaining, probably making a game on the internet was a bad idea to begin with. And as to your final point, that war alliances want the winner to be the "best fighter-builder," I'll take your word for it. I will, however, point out that they're certainly not getting what they want, according to you. "The actual winner of the round will be, as before, the side that is most apt at staying out of warfare." Well, perhaps a semi-random end time would make it less clear how long you have to avoid warfare. I believe it would actually increase the end-of-round war's importance and give these war alliances more of what they want, forcing the eventual winner to defend himself instead of gaining a ton of NS at the very last moment, then sitting back and watching the clock roll over, as happens far too often. It certainly can't make things MORE predictable. As an aside, I appreciate how you think personal insults aid your argument, but you're flat out wrong in that regard. As a solo player, I've come in quite high in the rankings more often than not, and I've very nearly won a few rounds, even while fighting two-week 3v1's (complete with nukes) and being unable to collect because of nuclear anarchy. So, yeah, I'm coming from a position of experience, and I'm telling you that the end of the round is ridiculous. After 60 days of build/buy/war, suddenly you cash out millions upon millions to buy 50 CMs and a bunch of planes you'd never have wasted the cash on before, knowing they'd be nuked away. Suddenly your warchest is pointless, so you spew it forth wildly on land, infra, and tech you considered too costly until now. Alternatives? Change the NS calculation from the ground up. Make fighting matter (and not just by counting casualties, which is a silly measurement that's far too easy to artificially inflate). Maybe count victories or something. The problem is that this sort of thing is far less simple to implement than my first suggestion, and it utterly changes the game itself.

It seems like the first few rounds, things were wild and free. But now? Now everything's gotten so methodical and planned that it's taking all the fun out of TE. People can't just fight in the last quarter of the round. Everyone has to go after their target lists and ensure they can't collect. Forget winning battles (that's for chumps!), so long as you're nuking on the prepared schedule. Attack up, against unreasonable odds, knowing you'll get stomped (that makes sense, right?), just so long as you're dragging someone else down with you. It's about as tactical as Tic Tac Toe. I have an idea to liven things up a little, to make rounds play...you know...DIFFERENT than each other. Many will hate it, and hopefully some will even curse my name, but I will persevere and click "Post New Topic," despite your oppression, interwebs! Anyway, here it is: Make the end of round random. 60 +1-10 days. DON'T reveal the end date, just the range. ("This round will end between X and Y.") It messes with people's carefully calculated endgames, livens things up, probably increases activity in the late going, and certainly increases interest and attention.

Having a ton of casualties is just a sign of military ineptitude anyway. A good commander wins without sacrificing his men unnecessarily.

This certainly doesn't fix everything, but: [quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1282857534' post='2432032'] Ok, I have a question. We have two major problems that most people agree on in terms of the core gameplay. First, large nations have way too much money and very little to do with it. This leads to such problems as boredom from lack of options, wars that drag on for months because that's how long it takes for war chests to run dry, and then don't flare up again for months afterward because everyone wants to restock their cash before war kicks off again, and probably one or two other things that I'm not thinking about just off the top of my head. Now, secondly, we have the newer nations who see the huge nations who have been around for years, figure the time investment it would take to get that big is way out of proportion for the reward of succeeding at a game they haven't invested any time in yet, and walk away before they've even gotten started. It seems to me that the large nations have [i]too much[/i] access to money, and the new nations have [i]too little[/i] access to money. [/quote] I'd almost say this means foreign aid needs to be larger...but I think that'd hurt the development of middle nations. Maybe that wouldn't necessarily be all bad, though. Still, I'd suggest more starting cash and bigger aid cash. The latter because aid limits were made back when there were a lot less zeros on bankrolls. The former? It lets young nations develop a little faster (and I can remember how slowly things went for me until I got some aid from a friend), it makes you feel like you're doing things, and so forth...and without having to join an alliance. A lot of people want to wet their feet without obligation, and CN doesn't let you do that. TE's starting cash lets you spend a little money. It lets you try things. Sure, maybe you'll be wrong, maybe you'll make mistakes, but at least you can spread your wings and try, right? Other comments? I think a tutorial guide is a great idea, especially if it comes in an Admin message immediately on creation (because, let's be honest, who doesn't get a bunch of recruitment spam?) Since I started writing this, I've had a few thoughts on the subjects at hand, but I unfortunately don't have the time right now (bedtime, you know) to express them. Hopefully I won't get distracted before I get back to this thread and do so...as unlikely as that sounds.