Monster

edit: That was funny when it showed up as a triple post. OOC: People are crossing some lines. I guess not worried about moderator intervention at this point?

The alliances that are best at energizing new nations are ironically the ones not selling at 6m/100 because they have better internal communities and give people real purpose beyond just making money. The actual mechanical aspects will never compete with that. It's really not the top 40%, more like 60-70% and most of these people selling at whatever rates will be gone soon enough as they lose interest in the drudgery. He should want to be a buyer instead and aim for getting there. I just went on TIE discord. 5 people on and no one from TIE.

Yeah, there are some inaccuracies. None of the other major alliances really tried to get high rates of slot usage for a long time. It's what helped our advantage in that we actually utilized our slots while others didn't try. They were never really evenly distributed. The more recent tech programs in the top 3 alliances(note GPA buyers buy at 6m/200 or 9m/300 rates. You can treat GPA as inconsequential, but they're in the top 250) didn't really kick into until 2014. There was usually no upper tier competition between sides except maybe Equilibrium since the upper tier advantage would always be on one side. It was always either the side with low upper tier would peace mode or they'd take the beating. If there are only 3 alliances that were trying( like I said only a minority cares now and people will put OOC: anything not CN over touching the game), then it means the death knell had already arrived. Eventually, it will only be 2 and then only one as apathy increases and people move on due to otherworldly concerns, so this doesn't pan out as there is no sustainability. There would have to be more alliances that were working towards for this case for it to actually be competitive. You can't rely on 3 alliances for all the action especially when two have shared a NAP for a majority of their existence even when not allied. The fact that most alliances did not have the drive to actually fight when those 3 alliances were on opposing sides made it clear that wasn't a workable dynamic. These policies made it a two tier game because there has been plenty of time for people to get their stuff in gear even if it was only the 20 most active members in each other alliance. NPO was very low tech for a long time even after Disorder, but they got organized while others messed around with 6m/100 and 9m/100. The reason they don't use the slots is because they're too inactive to do so. Slot efficiency and rate shouldn't conflict. The people who are active enough to buy tech should b getting it at a good rate. If they can't, it's because the market is distorted because people insist on high rates of cash per tech despite it being a bad long-term decision should they convert to buying. The point isn't to catch up now. That was more or less given away a long time, the point is to accumulate tech to an extent where the WRC has enough backing it for your nation to be able to do statistically relevant damage. More and more big nations will fade away because people grow tired of being nation rulers and allow themselves to pass away. The top 250 nation is lower than it was before. It's not an error because I didn't say no one else thought of it, I meant no one else vocalized it. If anyone else has thought of it, they've done an awful job of organizing it. They could have worked towards setting up a parallel alliance system and treaty web rather than wait around to get rolled. There's a possibility but it's ultra slight and no one will have the attention span for that. The lights might as well have gone off given the apathy. The main reason people stick around is the sunk cost fallacy. More and more are dropping that as a rationale. Bob has lasted in a memorial form more or less because no one cares. It has nothing to do with less people per se. It has to do with less caring. Most alliances can't manage a blitz of any size anymore. No one wants to get on at update. You need lop-sided odds to accomplish modest objectives because for every NS point, only about half will be useful. Things don't matter now because people don't care. A bunch of alliances set up discords, but no one is on, and irc is finished. War topics barely have any posts. There is little emotional investment left and lots of jaded attitudes. People simply are sticking out of habit and if no one cares they won't be able to be effective at anything. It reduces the incentive alliance leaders have to do anything if no one will show up. It's not less people, it's less caring, which is more visible to due to less people. if there were 1000 energized people as opposed to 5000 mostly lethargic, it'd be moe active.

It would be difficult for most to reach that level purely on tech though given the current trend and many reached top 250 anyway through infra bloat/land and got wrecked, but the reason people like DBDC accumulated so much in comparison is they got it at 0/300 per slot per month or 9/300. when the tech system was changed from 50 to 100 when others chose to buy at 6m/100 instead. The gap would be significantly lesser if everyone had been buying at 9m/300 or 6m/200 and there would have been more competition for alliances with feeders. The problem is no one else really had tech growth as a goal, so the flaws of the system were easily taken advantage of by those that did. The worst part is the anti-growth movement so to speak has been non-intentional and mostly believing they're paying a fair rate and treating it as just giving extra money. If people simply didn't care about the top 250-500 nations anymore and wanted to ignore them, that would make sense but often times they stay in range anyway due to infra and land bloat. The parallel world outside of a continual dramas like Monsters Inc isn't really that vibrant and it's usually people waiting around to get hit rather than doing anything proactive.

That'll never be how it works and would require centralization that doesn't exist. Only the richest in tech would make sense for that rather than the richest in money and there'd be no way to enforce it. The issue is there is no actual prevailing rate right now as is; it's just people who try to accrue tech and others like Auctor said treat it as a relatively insignificant byproduct or philanthropy or simply have given up on real tech growth and the latter are the ones buying at 9m/100. For any prevailing rate to make sense, it has to be followed by everyone. The issue is technology dealing isn't officially sanctioned by the creator and is just a thing the people here invented. If there were set rates everyone had to follow, then there wouldn't be as big of a problem. The other issue is everyone is content to do things in a way that ensures there is no competitiveness and people will continually gimp themselves to the extent they will be unable to damage to anyone statistically large. If the idea has been to create a parallel low nation strength world with a bunch of 9m/100 buyers and a perma-seller class, then it's poorly executed anyway and could be done much better and the only one who has even expressed anything coming close is Junka. As of now, it's just a bunch of people feeling good about retarding their tech growth while others quietly boost to levels that will be impossible to even have half of past a certain point. 6m/200 should be on the table, because a seller is only a seller for a relatively limited time compared to being a buyer if they're not a perma-seller. It will be more expensive for them to pay the 9m/100 rates long-run in both cost and lack of tech growth if they do not stay a seller. For an older nation, the money isn't the issue, it's the retardation of tech accumulation. Having to pay after receiving 100 tech and then having to wait to receive 100 tech again is slower than paying once and receiving twice. It gets worse when others are buying at 9m/300 rates and thus only pay once and receive three times. Like I said, given the rate of people moving on from this world, it doesn't matter. For older nations, their nations are mere keepsakes and the rulers have grown weary. The 9m/100 craze is a symptom of a wider problem, but it's a very bad symptom.

Buyers don't get enough. The issue isn't the money, it's the time delay. If people could pay 12m and get 200 straight away, then it wouldn't be an issue. The rate of tech accumulation goes down significantly at 9m/100. Essentially, these policies have made this a two tier game, alliances like the top 3 that have internal sellers to keep 9m/300 rates internally and alliances that buy at 6m/100 or 9m/100. It's usually similar people who complain about non-competitiveness statistically and such while intentionally gimping themselves. The tech system is fundamentally broken. The good thing is no one cares anymore.

Yeah, lol.

If a game has such a limited number of active alliances, it's an indictment of its ability to retain interest and you have a very liberal definition of active of here. I would say it's a single digit number of alliances that are active and not on the high end of single digits. The point is, the game was going in this direction independently of any political set-up and every major war including the biggest ones usually saw massive declines in player count, which contradicts the whole narrative. I'm sorry people aren't as willing to spend hours on end marshaling coalitions of inactives as in the past in a game where most veteran players stopped caring years ago and there was no one to replace them, which is the bigger issue. Most alliances have skeleton crews in gov now. The entitlement people have here to dynamic politics when there is barely any general activity in the game is puzzling.

Yeah, this is what it comes down to. People warned about this 5 years ago and it's been a slow bleed. admin's response was "I didn't expect this to last six months and we still have 20k players, so don't worry and have fun." People can talk all about how it's due to the current political situation, but frankly that's not the case at all and even Disorder War was basically the inactive olympics and we could see how little people already cared by then.

The Children of the Morrighan, AGW Overlords, and the Hillbilly Coalition surrender to the forces of SLAP, Umbrella, The Dark Templar, Viridian Entente and New Polar Order. CoTM will refrain from providing military, financial, or any other form of assistance to any combatant during the on going conflicts. Current wars between the belligerent alliances will continue until they expire or the individual nations agree to peace. For the Children of the Morrighan: The Morrighan - Cerridwyn of Greenpeace The Morrigu: The Battle Crow - Randalla of the HieLands Macha, The Hearth of Home - BigKif of Kifland Nemain, The Great Bender - ConRed of The Crimson Republic For The Hillbilly Coalition: President : Rattlehead Vice President : Shavar Director of Internal Affairs : AtomIkZ Director of Military : Thom98 For AGW Overlords: Unruly of Republique de Buja Signed for Sovereign League of Armed Powers, The Blood God - Banned The hand that opens - Supreme Emperor Daeg The hand that fights - Eviljak The hand that feeds - Javier360 The hand that guides - claude Signed for The Dark Templar, TiTaN Terrence Krillins StarCraftMazter Signed for the New Polar Order, EateMUp, Emperor Signed for Umbrella, Signed for the Viridian Entente, Supreme 142, Lord of the Viridian Entente Austrailia, Duke of the Entente Azure, Secretary of Defense Blkandwhtlion, Secretary of Economics

So, basically most CBs ever used. There is a difference when alliances have several treaty links to one side and aid that side and other one-off deals. If we have motive to hit someone and they provide a CB, why not?

The only true repeats were Sparta, NADC, and Invicta and the latter two came in of their own volition. TTK,CRAP, Legion, Old Guard, KoRT, Alpha Wolves and RIA all hadn't fought in global wars for over 2 years.

People are saying they'll disband on their own and that the decision has already been made.

No wonder you can't sympathize with #thestruggle.

If anything, them roguing you was actually counter-productive since it reduced the number of nations in range, but they just wanted to do their thing and leave the planet.

We're the natives of the black team. It's are country. When CotM send its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you.They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing bad proposals. They’re bringing crime. They’re tech rate inflators.

>taking intentionally over the top post seriously. Since it seems to be not really getting caught by people, there have been issues brewing on the black sphere due to differences on proposals and other reasons to take action were given this time.

That's the spirit!

I think we have a misunderstanding here. I'm not saying we're desperate for it to occur. That discussion started because Kapleo mentioned the world was on the brink of something. The replies to it were pretty dismissive and sarcastic. Here's what I'm getting at it, it's not that just no one is willing to move: it's very few people are capable of moving at all. Inertia is the reason many people keep existing here. Part of the reason Oculus appealed to people is because people got tired of herding cats with coalitions that were more akin to amorphous blobs with low overall commitment/activity and getting outcomes that weren't truly decisive or backfired. There hasn't been any ideology for quite some time. Pragmatism has ruled the day for years. The thing with grudges is you end up repeating the same thing over and over and a lot of the times the differences are ones that can be worked through or fade over time. Usually a grudge will be something only certain parties are particularly invested in, while a war based on single alliance's grudges is a coalition effort so someone is having to marshal a coalition of people who usually aren't as committed and would come up short in terms of objectives. So when grudges faded, repeating the same wars became a pointless endeavor. That's kind of the issue with it being largely the same people and everyone knowing each other. There haven't been any new power players popping up on the scene which is symptomatic of a general decline in interest. The decline in interest has been there for years and it was evident even when there was a bipolar dynamic. Certain parties had to carry more and more of the burden. Even they have experienced huge declines in interest over time. You keep misreading the issue since it's really not one of the politics killing the planet here, it's the planet's decay due to lasting so long that has eroded traditional politics. I'm pretty sure the sanction requirement for alliances had to be changed before Oculus. Since you seem to think basically the same alliances should fight each other constantly as they'd be the only ones capable of taking each other out, it'd lead to a similar stagnation and eventually one side would no longer be capable of providing resistance. Again, I didn't say it was necessarily possible to win vs Oculus. Other people have been able to minimize the overall impact Oculus has on their existence and operate in almost parallel systems. There are also always adaptations people can make to be more effective even when the odds are against them. There's no real reason for anyone to go out of their way to make things interesting currently for its own sake.It's more likely more and more people will just depart and alliances will fold and it won't be because the politics, it'll be because they don't care about the planet itself to the extent the politics are immaterial. For the average person who has been a sustaining member of an established alliance, you'll find very little interest in the details of politics and it has always been like that and when they depart they'll have just tired of the routine and not make time for it like they previously had or it will be an afterthought. The alliances that are going the strongest are ones where the internal community is the main way people engage. Outside of a very niche demographic, settings like these inevitably lose their luster. The only thing that would make it more sustainable would be a lot more fresh blood, not anyone going out of their way to please the small slice of the population that currently reads these forums for a short period of time before another centralization of power would occur.

So you're saying it wouldn't be worth the effort? I mean I agree with that then. Going to be honest, a recurring theme in your posts is an assumption of an energy level that just isn't there on this planet. Junka has pointed out it doesn't exist within your alliance and it doesn't exist in many more so relying on other people to be willing to put in the hours you are not willing to put in yourself is pretty foolhardy. The longevity of this world encourages people to stick around even when they've checked out because their nations are keepsakes, meaning very little of the population is willing to seriously engage. The barrier to entry makes it so newer people who would be more energized can't impact things. Expecting a Karma-level of engagement when the appeal is no longer there for most is dumb. If it's not worth the effort, then don't complain.

Wars lasting for months has been a thing for over half a decade. Not sure what you mean by exceptionally harsh. In the wars Oculus has fought, the terms haven't really been particularly punitive. I mean, a lot of people have had a few years without any wars at all, so I'm sure they'll be able to go back to whatever it is what they were doing in good time.

I don't know. Why regret joining? Were you not made aware of the odds before? Regardless, honoring the MDoAP would be the right move. Also like DeathAdder said, this isn't an Avalanche thread.

I mean not going get into walls of text here, but with OG most alliances don't have people bigger than some of their nations. OG hit NoR and NoR only had one nation above 200k NS. NG is mainly mid tier. We're just filling gaps where we can and some bored people can have some entertainment.

I don't think anyone said that. Schrodinger says he didn't say that. I don't think anyone though this would be fair or that our side would hold back.