Master Ninja

[quote name='rabonnobar' timestamp='1358405297' post='3077909'] Congrats all, but especially Master Ninja. [/quote] Glad to see you're still around rabonnobar.

Thanks for all the well wishes!

I'm looking for some active tech sellers to sell me some tech. The deal is 3 mil/50 tech. I already have the money ready, so as soon as you notify me, I can send the money.

[quote name='dulceice' timestamp='1300001040' post='2662645'] Your last sentence doesn't make sense to me. Obviously you're hurting our alliance: whether you're winning or losing a war you get damaged. I'm sure you didn't mean it that literally, but I don't see any other way you could mean it (You've lost 12,413Alliance Strength and we've gained 772AS). [/quote] Right, but wrong. Since the beginning of our war you have gained two new members, one of which currently has close to 11,000 NS and the other of which has about 2,000 NS. At my last count, we had done about 12,633.91 NS in damage and received 8,693 NS in return (a large portion of this due to nukes). This has obviously changed due to the recent nukings of our members, but we have also done an increased about of damage to you. So you are in all technicality right, but your alliance would probably be close to 15,000 AS stronger had this war not happened. I will let Mark respond to the rest.

[quote name='Guppy Fish' timestamp='1299985280' post='2662213'] Mark Reynolds: In peace talks, Master_Ninja obstinately refused to recognize the insults and threats in your PM. Karolina: It used to be more of a raid retaliation and etc. stuff. Now I'm calling in the actual war guys... for real war... [/quote] We have discussed this at length Guppy Fish. I told you we were more than happy to acknowledge that you were threatened and insulted by the PM Mark Reynolds sent you. But rather than reiterate what I felt I explained relatively clearly, I will just show them. [spoiler]Mar 12 15:10:13 * Fish (Mibbit@coldfront-DA57E6CA.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #gc Mar 12 15:10:22 <Fish> asdfjkl; Mar 12 15:10:28 <Fish> hi Mar 12 15:10:34 <Master_Ninja> Hi. Mar 12 15:10:50 <Fish> thanks for that, Dolphin Mar 12 15:10:57 <Dolphin> ? Mar 12 15:11:17 <Dolphin> What? I was hoping that I'd get high enough odds to hit you today, but it is still below 30 Mar 12 15:11:19 <Dolphin> sad ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:11:39 <Master_Ninja> I still attack when I am at 5%. You get underdog bonuses then. Mar 12 15:11:52 <Fish> lol Mar 12 15:11:55 <Fish> that's 5-15 though Mar 12 15:12:10 <Dolphin> yea well, you have no money master Mar 12 15:12:11 <Dolphin> I do Mar 12 15:12:14 <Dolphin> It costs a ton to loose Mar 12 15:12:14 <Dolphin> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:12:34 <Master_Ninja> Actually, for some reason, even if the reports say I lose money, I never do. Mar 12 15:12:43 <Fish> haha Mar 12 15:12:48 <Fish> that's because Mar 12 15:12:54 <Fish> soldiers and tanks you lose are added in Mar 12 15:13:06 <Dolphin> Oh really? Nice Mar 12 15:13:11 <Fish> as equipment... your soldiers when losing rarely drop wads of cash Mar 12 15:13:13 <Fish> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:13:20 <Master_Ninja> Ah, that would explain it. Mar 12 15:13:21 <Dolphin> If that means losses are being capped to 10K for me I'd be happy Mar 12 15:13:30 <Dolphin> Its a pain to see 25K losses when attacking ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:13:41 <Fish> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:13:47 <Dolphin> I don't mind rebuying though. Hell, half the time I'm just suiciding my guys so i can rebuy them for defense Mar 12 15:13:58 <Fish> lol Mar 12 15:13:59 <Dolphin> Cause I know Fish is going to hit me again ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:14:05 <Dolphin> Actually, I don't really care about you Fish. You always win Mar 12 15:14:10 <Fish> haha Mar 12 15:14:11 <Dolphin> I buy decent troops I can keep off your minions Mar 12 15:14:23 <Fish> not. my. minions ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:14:35 <Fish> if they were my minions they'd be my strength and demolishing you ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:14:44 <Dolphin> Haq Parast got lucky today though. 60 and 70 odds against him and he won both Mar 12 15:14:48 <Dolphin> oh well, bound to happen Mar 12 15:14:55 <Fish> lol Mar 12 15:15:12 <Fish> I attacked a guy I was bound to lose against for casualty purposes.. Mar 12 15:15:15 <Fish> and won on accident >_> Mar 12 15:15:28 <Fish> oh and if we don't peace by today that's going to be a waste of my nuke Mar 12 15:15:34 <Master_Ninja> I did that once. Had a 5% chance of Victory. It was crazy. Mar 12 15:15:40 <Fish> lol Mar 12 15:17:20 <Dolphin> You do realize how little nukes phase us Mar 12 15:17:43 <Fish> just about none Mar 12 15:17:44 <Fish> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:17:52 <Fish> but today I attacked you with yesterday's leftovers Mar 12 15:17:59 <Fish> not today's full deploy Mar 12 15:18:09 <Fish> so, I failed to anarchize you :/ Mar 12 15:18:25 <Dolphin> I can't collect till the nuke effects wear off Mar 12 15:18:31 <Dolphin> So I could really care less If I get anarchied Mar 12 15:18:32 <Dolphin> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:18:56 <Fish> once again, you can't declare war that way Mar 12 15:19:48 <Dolphin> I'm pefectly fine feeding on Smalls and Haq Mar 12 15:19:57 <Dolphin> Once your out of the picture I'll be making money off of fighting them Mar 12 15:20:17 <Dolphin> And they both declared recently, so they won't expire soon ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:20:42 <Dolphin> I had like 50 guys left and you still didn't anarchy me Mar 12 15:20:49 * Dolphin <3 Gorrilla Camps Mar 12 15:20:52 <Fish> no.. Mar 12 15:20:59 <Fish> you had deployed guys I would've sent home Mar 12 15:21:02 <Dolphin> Well yea Mar 12 15:21:03 <Dolphin> That too Mar 12 15:21:04 <Fish> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:21:13 <Dolphin> I meant the guys who were still defending ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:21:18 <Fish> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:21:28 <Fish> anyway. Mar 12 15:21:34 <Fish> So it seems you guys don't want peace, ever? Mar 12 15:21:35 <Fish> oO Mar 12 15:22:51 <Master_Ninja> Let me try to explain exactly what needs to happen for us to peace. Mar 12 15:23:21 <Fish> it's probably what I heard from Dolphin. Mar 12 15:23:38 <Dolphin> We're a small alliance ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:23:43 <Master_Ninja> We need you to add us to/create a no-raiding list. Meaning that your whole alliance does not raid us, and in the event they do, we deal with them accordingly. Mar 12 15:23:59 <Fish> and I'll probably reply to you the same way as I did to dolphin.. Mar 12 15:24:11 <Fish> Not creating one, not implementing it, and have no real authority. Mar 12 15:24:20 <Fish> and, no organization. Mar 12 15:24:40 <Fish> http://s4.zetaboards.com/The_Fellowship/members/ < just look at my awesome memberlist... only dulceice is a current member. Mar 12 15:25:18 <Master_Ninja> Okay, there are in-game PMs for a reason. And most of the people engaged with us, would probably understand the situation. Mar 12 15:25:31 <Master_Ninja> We could PM them for you if necessary. Mar 12 15:25:35 <Fish> er.. there's few people engaged with you... Mar 12 15:25:43 <Master_Ninja> I have six people against me. Mar 12 15:25:45 <Fish> more of a bunch that you decided to crush because they were easy. Mar 12 15:26:12 <Master_Ninja> Actually, I believe nearly all our alliance has their defensive slots filled by now. Mar 12 15:26:16 <Fish> 3 of them fit my above description Mar 12 15:26:22 <Fish> and check Mark Reynolds... 2 open. Mar 12 15:26:31 <Fish> I didn't even send the last guy against him Mar 12 15:26:42 <Master_Ninja> Note how I said nearly. Mar 12 15:26:47 <Fish> http://tournament.cybernations.net/search_...0293&Extended=1 < 2 open Mar 12 15:26:49 <Dolphin> My full six slots are taken Mar 12 15:27:10 <Fish> http://tournament.cybernations.net/search_...0293&Extended=1 < 1 open Mar 12 15:27:12 <Dolphin> we may still have a few defensive slots open, but we're close to 100% utilization Mar 12 15:27:34 <Fish> well, I wasn't arguing against this most recent point. Mar 12 15:27:51 <Master_Ninja> Let me just lay it out in a simple fashion. You have a fair measure of power in your alliance. Mar 12 15:28:09 <Master_Ninja> Deny it if you want, but you are controlling the alliance in all reality. Mar 12 15:28:16 <Fish> I do, but none in the "Don't touch!" list Mar 12 15:28:42 <Master_Ninja> Post something on your forum and notify your members. Mar 12 15:28:50 * Dolphin sighs Mar 12 15:28:52 <Fish> *cough* MEMBERLIST *cough* Mar 12 15:28:52 <Master_Ninja> It is really not that hard to create. Mar 12 15:29:11 <Fish> *cough* hereyougoagain *cough* http://s4.zetaboards.com/The_Fellowship/members/ Mar 12 15:29:13 <Dolphin> Yea we get it, the forum you created doesn't really function as a forum Mar 12 15:29:15 <Master_Ninja> PMs in-game. I am pretty sure most people read them. Mar 12 15:29:42 <Fish> remember, I have no real authority and Angmar's pretty pissed at me already for taking all this control and declaring war a while back. Mar 12 15:30:04 <Master_Ninja> Look, we know both sides of the story. Angmar wants peace. Mar 12 15:30:20 <Master_Ninja> Since you are active, you declare it. Mar 12 15:30:39 <Master_Ninja> Seems pretty simple to me. Mar 12 15:30:42 <Fish> well, Dolphin clearly hasn't told you what needs to happen for me to declare it. Mar 12 15:30:53 <Master_Ninja> I know what you want. Mar 12 15:31:01 <Fish> okay, and it sure hasn't happened Mar 12 15:31:27 <Dolphin> Hey now! Mar 12 15:31:32 <Dolphin> Don't blaim the aquatic mammals Mar 12 15:31:40 <Master_Ninja> Okay, well here's the deal. Mar 12 15:31:41 <Fish> lol Mar 12 15:32:03 <Master_Ninja> You can save face and declare it, and Mark could possibly send you a in-game PM apologizing. Mar 12 15:32:24 <Fish> *sigh* you guys like threats, don't you... Mar 12 15:32:35 <Master_Ninja> Or you could ignore our offers and sell half your infrastructure to be able to declare on us again. Mar 12 15:32:43 <Master_Ninja> As we smash your lower members. Mar 12 15:32:55 <Fish> really... Mar 12 15:33:03 <Master_Ninja> I am laying out the sides. Not threatening you. We told you many times how we deal with raiders. Mar 12 15:33:04 <Fish> I disagree. I see a third option Mar 12 15:33:36 <Fish> Where I call in all my "resources" and smash you to pieces using the guys who don't want to but still will fight you Mar 12 15:34:08 <Master_Ninja> And we engage in a war until the reset where no one gets ahead. Mar 12 15:34:23 <Fish> actually, some of my nations get ahead. Mar 12 15:34:23 * Dolphin thinks this is going nowhere Mar 12 15:34:23 <Master_Ninja> We don't flag run and are doing this for combat experience, so I am down for that too. Mar 12 15:34:27 <Fish> and the rest don't. Mar 12 15:34:32 <Fish> I noticed you don't flag run. Mar 12 15:34:39 <Fish> I noticed I don't, either. Mar 12 15:34:46 <Dolphin> Fish, you should get the authority to negotiate on behalf of your alliance Mar 12 15:35:00 <Fish> actually, I appointed that to myself. That's why I'm here, no? Mar 12 15:35:01 <Dolphin> So we can stop this nonsense of negotiating with no power Mar 12 15:35:08 <Fish> ah! Mar 12 15:35:15 <Fish> well, it's disorganized, see. Mar 12 15:35:21 <Dolphin> Well well, We need some assurance that you guys won't hit us again Mar 12 15:35:47 <Fish> Got a method? Mar 12 15:35:51 <Fish> Mar 12 15:36:04 <Dolphin> Generally... with more organized alliances... they maintain a list of .. you've heard the story Mar 12 15:36:08 <Dolphin> bla bla bla Mar 12 15:36:16 <Master_Ninja> Already stated. In-game PM and the creation of a no-hit list. Mar 12 15:36:30 <Dolphin> and if someone hits us reguardless of that list, their alliance usually leaves them out to dry while we extract revenge Mar 12 15:36:31 <Fish> Already stated. Not from me, not from Angmar, not happening. Mar 12 15:36:40 <Master_Ninja> In the PM, you can say that members that continue attacking will receive no help from their alliance. Mar 12 15:36:53 <Fish> I can't guarantee no help, can I now? Mar 12 15:36:58 <Master_Ninja> What is the problem with creating a no-hit list? Mar 12 15:37:04 <Fish> I can't enforce it? Mar 12 15:37:10 <Master_Ninja> We can. Mar 12 15:37:17 <Fish> No, you can't. Mar 12 15:37:27 <Master_Ninja> They attack us, they get no help from the rest of the alliance, we smash them. Mar 12 15:37:30 <Dolphin> Gah Mar 12 15:37:32 <Fish> And if one of my guys decides to defend the un-innocent raider some time in the future, Mar 12 15:37:40 <Fish> I'm certainly not leaving the Defender to die. Mar 12 15:37:55 <Dolphin> Someone raids an alliance Mar 12 15:37:59 <Dolphin> that alliance hits back Mar 12 15:38:02 <Dolphin> that is a raid Mar 12 15:38:09 <Dolphin> You bring it more people from the raiders alliance, it is a war Mar 12 15:38:19 <Fish> Mar 12 15:38:26 <Dolphin> You can't say "We want to bring these five nations to raid your five nation alliance, but not our otehr 10 weak nations" Mar 12 15:38:30 <Fish> that doesn't show me how you'll "enforce a no hit list" Mar 12 15:38:37 <Master_Ninja> With a no-hit list and informing them, I really think this problem is easily solved. I mean, how hard is it to keep people from raiding five nations. Mar 12 15:39:00 <Fish> if I brought 5 nations, I'd probably be declaring war on you and I'd probably have anarchized you, in this case Mar 12 15:39:14 <Fish> and it's not hard to say they probably won't. Mar 12 15:39:17 <Fish> But, here's a scenario: Mar 12 15:39:29 <Fish> One of my guys, most likely Haq Parast if it happens, attacks you. Mar 12 15:39:36 <Fish> You pound and kill him. Mar 12 15:39:44 <Fish> Sulucia comes and attacks... YOU. Mar 12 15:39:46 <Fish> what do you do? Mar 12 15:40:00 <Fish> A. kill Sulucia. Not acceptable from my point of view. Mar 12 15:40:16 <Fish> B. Leave Sulucia alone. Er, not happening it seems Mar 12 15:40:30 <Fish> I see no enforcement possible. Mar 12 15:41:04 <Master_Ninja> Just tell them, you cannot raid these people. Everyone peaces out and the problem is solved. We did it with another raider and there was no problem. Mar 12 15:41:16 <Fish> if you're talking about the OP one, Mar 12 15:41:16 <Dolphin> It sounds like your AA's policy is to let your members do whatever they want Mar 12 15:41:20 <Fish> I must ONCE AGAIN POINT OUT: Mar 12 15:41:23 <Fish> NO ORGANIZATION! Mar 12 15:41:31 <Fish> No, Dolphin, it isn't. Mar 12 15:41:32 <Dolphin> You don't want give them rules Mar 12 15:41:36 <Fish> However, there IS NO POLICY Mar 12 15:41:53 <Dolphin> So you are basically a bunch of people under an AA with no organization Mar 12 15:41:56 <Fish> and I, (...remember?) have no power! Except over the guys I listed to Dolphin. Mar 12 15:41:57 <Dolphin> That is fine Mar 12 15:41:58 <Fish> That's right. Mar 12 15:42:10 <Master_Ninja> Can we at least attempt to make a policy? Mar 12 15:42:19 <Master_Ninja> And see how it goes? Mar 12 15:42:25 <Dolphin> I don't thinkt hat is the point master Mar 12 15:42:40 <Dolphin> Their policy is not to have a poicly. Whatever Mar 12 15:42:47 <Fish> No, that isn't the policy: Mar 12 15:42:55 <Master_Ninja> I will personally message every one of your members about the no-hit list and point them to a post on the forums. Mar 12 15:43:10 <Fish> Mar 12 15:43:19 <Fish> you do that. Except, where would I put the list? Mar 12 15:43:23 <Fish> "Public Announcements"? Mar 12 15:43:28 <Fish> most of the forum's unviewable, Mar 12 15:43:31 <Dolphin> Or even better, apparently you guys have an internal forum somewhere ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:43:31 <Fish> and they're not on the forum. Mar 12 15:43:38 <Fish> yeah, well, Mar 12 15:43:40 <Fish> I'm not on that one Mar 12 15:43:41 <Dolphin> that isn't your forum ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:43:50 <Fish> cause I don't want to be on a Legacy subforum Mar 12 15:43:58 <Master_Ninja> Post it wherever you like. Add it to the post on the CN forums. Mar 12 15:44:14 <Master_Ninja> As long as they see you declared it, it should be fine. Mar 12 15:44:30 <Fish> okay, I will add that. Mar 12 15:44:40 <Fish> (later) Mar 12 15:44:43 <Fish> but, once again: Mar 12 15:45:10 <Fish> 1 sec. Mar 12 15:45:13 <Fish> Mar 12 15:45:20 <Master_Ninja> No organization? Mar 12 15:51:03 <Dolphin> So master, National Research Lab or Stock Market Mar 12 15:51:32 <Master_Ninja> For TE? Mar 12 15:51:35 <Dolphin> no ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:51:48 <Dolphin> I'm up to purchase one. NRL is worth 130K/day, while stock market is 220K,b ut NRL gives me anotehr 1900 guys Mar 12 15:52:00 <Dolphin> or basically two schools at 41K/day/piece Mar 12 15:53:00 <Dolphin> + the tech bonus Mar 12 15:53:06 <Master_Ninja> I always liked population increasing ones. Allows you to buy more improvements. Mar 12 15:53:25 <Fish> okay, back Mar 12 15:53:26 <Fish> NRL ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:54:25 <Dolphin> I wonder if people would be willing to do better tech deals if I got the FAC Mar 12 15:54:32 <Dolphin> Does anyone even have the FAC? ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:55:04 <Master_Ninja> I do not think too many people have it. I was going to buy it today. Mar 12 15:55:15 <Fish> Dulra has it! ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:55:21 <Dolphin> Hey, our alliance has 3 FAC's! Mar 12 15:55:41 <Master_Ninja> Yep, I think that one will be next for me. Mar 12 15:55:43 <Fish> 0 for me ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 15:55:53 <Dolphin> I think i'll go with NRL Mar 12 15:55:56 <Dolphin> Should be good for a tech trader Mar 12 15:56:11 <Dolphin> Then I have to go find a coal trade. Wonderful >.> Mar 12 15:56:19 <Master_Ninja> So Fish, where are we at? Mar 12 15:56:19 <Dolphin> They should bring in the "switch your own resources" to SE Mar 12 15:56:32 <Fish> oh, yeah Mar 12 15:56:36 <Fish> not no organization. Mar 12 15:56:44 <Fish> once again: Mar 12 15:56:59 <Fish> someone needs to acknowledge my points BEFORE peace is declared Mar 12 15:58:13 <Master_Ninja> Acknowledge in what way? Mar 12 15:58:29 <Fish> acknowledge their truth. Not their existence lol Mar 12 15:58:39 <Fish> on a side note: you DO agree with them, no? Mar 12 15:59:13 <Master_Ninja> Hmmm. Mar 12 15:59:42 <Master_Ninja> The first point is technically true, though in reality somewhat false. Mar 12 16:00:02 <Fish> well I told dolphin why that needed to be acknowledged: Mar 12 16:00:21 <Fish> Although Guppy Fish is not the supreme leader of The Fellowship, he does have admin access on their forums and therefore holds a position of high authority within his alliance. His seniority in The Fellowship made this coordinated attack a severe threat to our soverignity, and we responded accordingly. We made multiple attempts to resolve the conflict diplom Mar 12 16:00:22 <Master_Ninja> The second point is an opinion so therefore does not need to be acknowledged as truth. Mar 12 16:00:38 <Dolphin> Master has seen the transcript Mar 12 16:00:57 <Fish> there's a purpose to each point... Mar 12 16:01:07 <Dolphin> We don't let our negotiators go in unprepared ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 16:01:20 <Master_Ninja> Your third point is entirely from your perspective, so has no bearing in any negiotiations. Mar 12 16:01:25 <Fish> the second is there as an objection to THIS smear: Mar 12 16:01:40 <Fish> the third has a point too... stop going so fast Mar 12 16:01:40 <Master_Ninja> And the fourth point is a question not a statement. Mar 12 16:01:41 <Fish> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 16:01:53 <Fish> the second point is an objection to this: Mar 12 16:02:10 <Fish> Guppy Fish has rejected all our negotiation attempts and has got more TF members to join the assault. < :S Mar 12 16:02:52 <Fish> Point 3 is for this: We made multiple attempts to resolve the conflict diplomatically after our initial counter attack. Mar 12 16:03:01 <Fish> yeah, many efforts... but not very good ones. Mar 12 16:03:22 <Master_Ninja> Point 3 is entirely subjective. Mar 12 16:03:44 <Master_Ninja> So has no need to be recognized. Mar 12 16:03:47 <Fish> well, if you acknowledged the fact he sent that PM Mar 12 16:04:04 <Fish> the OWF world would see exactly that they weren't very.. nice efforts Mar 12 16:04:09 <Master_Ninja> Okay, "Mark Reynolds sent Guppy Fish a PM." Mar 12 16:04:28 <Master_Ninja> The contents of the PM are entirely subjective to the recipient. Mar 12 16:04:34 <Dolphin> Gah Mar 12 16:04:44 <Master_Ninja> Each person would view them in a different way. Mar 12 16:04:55 <Dolphin> The e-lawyering in this room is amazing Mar 12 16:04:55 <Fish> actually, not "a PM" Mar 12 16:05:02 <Fish> "a PM with threats and insults inside" Mar 12 16:05:11 <Fish> "a PM" obviously wouldn't show much. < Mar 12 16:05:20 <Master_Ninja> What you perceived as threats and insults. Mar 12 16:05:47 <Fish> Message: After more than two months of nobody attacking the Grey Council, some noob in OP attacks us, we retaliate and you thereupun decided to hit what you regarded as an easy target becuase you sensed that we would have our hands full dealing with the repercussions of our decision to retaliate. I have bad news for you. The guy who attacked us was a noob wh Mar 12 16:05:52 <Dolphin> "Back off now" can be viewed as a threat or a warnign, depending Mar 12 16:06:02 <Fish> I'm sure OP wouldn't appreciate an SS of that, either Mar 12 16:06:16 <Fish> anyway, I don't need to copypaste each section. Mar 12 16:06:17 <Dolphin> annnnyway Mar 12 16:06:23 <Fish> You know what's in it, and you know what it means. Mar 12 16:06:29 <Master_Ninja> I could say "Mark Reynold sent a PM to Guppy Fish, which Guppy Fish felt was both insulting and threatening. Mar 12 16:06:42 <Fish> Mar 12 16:06:47 <Fish> you wanna post the whole contents, then? Mar 12 16:06:58 <Fish> "Mark Reynolds sent Guppy Fish this PM: Message: After more than two months of nobody attacking the Grey Council, some noob in OP attacks us, we retaliate and you thereupun decided to hit what you regarded as an easy target becuase you sensed that we would have our hands full dealing with the repercussions of our decision to retaliate. I have bad news for yo Mar 12 16:07:06 <Fish> I'll even give you the SS Mar 12 16:07:11 <Fish> or post it myself Mar 12 16:07:19 <Master_Ninja> Look, I know what the message says. Mar 12 16:07:25 <Fish> I know you do Mar 12 16:07:31 <Master_Ninja> Let's not turn this into a feces-slinging contest. Mar 12 16:07:37 <Fish> and I know you know it's got threats and insults. Mar 12 16:07:50 <Fish> and, something OP sure wouldn't appreciate, of course. Mar 12 16:08:07 <Master_Ninja> I know that it has the possibility to be threatening or insulting, depending on the way someone takes it. Mar 12 16:08:19 <Fish> I don't know.. Mar 12 16:08:26 <Fish> show me a way, from my perspective, for it NOT to be Mar 12 16:08:29 <Dolphin> Fish, you've made that vieled threat like 7 times now Mar 12 16:08:30 <Dolphin> we get it Mar 12 16:08:43 <Fish> Mar 12 16:08:46 <Fish> you get it, Mar 12 16:08:49 <Master_Ninja> I also realize it could be perceived as a way to show the history of the GC and put that into perspective. Mar 12 16:08:49 <Dolphin> We are not that thick Mar 12 16:09:03 <Dolphin> Yes, you could post a message that you think might hurt our relationship with OP Mar 12 16:09:04 <Fish> but it seems you don't want to write this on the OWF: Mar 12 16:09:22 <Fish> "Mark Reynolds sent Guppy Fish a PM with insults and threats inside" Mar 12 16:09:23 <Master_Ninja> In all technicality, you could if you want. Mar 12 16:09:36 <Fish> yeah, well, if you don't want to recognize that it's like that, Mar 12 16:09:41 <Fish> I will, because it has to be known! Mar 12 16:09:45 <Fish> well, not has to be. Mar 12 16:09:53 <Fish> Nobody pays attention to announcements regarding the Fellowship. Mar 12 16:10:06 <Dolphin> But they pay attention to the GC Mar 12 16:10:06 <Master_Ninja> PMs are between people, and "legally" owned by the person who receives them. You just look like a jerk from posting things like that. Mar 12 16:10:12 <Dolphin> So you want to use us as a bully pulpit Mar 12 16:10:15 <Dolphin> and that is your cost for peace? Mar 12 16:10:17 <Dolphin> Wonderful Mar 12 16:10:51 <Fish> well, you don't seem to want to recognize its contents fully Mar 12 16:11:01 <Master_Ninja> I recognize its contents. Mar 12 16:11:05 <Fish> Mar 12 16:11:12 <Master_Ninja> They can be taken a number of ways. Mar 12 16:11:14 <Fish> worded differently: Mar 12 16:11:22 <Fish> recognize them the way I mentioned Mar 12 16:11:31 <Fish> perhaps slightly better worded, but not THAT much,. Mar 12 16:11:43 <Master_Ninja> Mark Reynolds sent Guppy Fish a PM with insults and threats inside Mar 12 16:11:57 <Master_Ninja> That is your perspective. Mar 12 16:12:02 <Fish> yes, it is. Mar 12 16:12:08 <Master_Ninja> Mark Reynolds sent Guppy Fish a PM with insults and threats inside Mar 12 16:12:15 <Master_Ninja> Sorry, wrong thing. Mar 12 16:12:25 <Master_Ninja> Mark Reynold sent a PM to Guppy Fish, which Guppy Fish felt was both insulting and threatening. Mar 12 16:12:32 <Master_Ninja> That states exactly what happened. Mar 12 16:12:36 <Dolphin> You do realize he sent you those to try to avoid this Mar 12 16:12:57 <Fish> Mar 12 16:13:10 <Fish> he had you guys attack those who have been attacked Mar 12 16:13:16 <Fish> before sending the PM Mar 12 16:13:20 <Fish> avoid what, an IRC discussion? Mar 12 16:13:45 <Dolphin> The escalation Mar 12 16:14:17 <Fish> there was no escalation, almost Mar 12 16:14:31 <Fish> only ND got out of anarchy and attacked a couple more guys, Mar 12 16:14:47 <Fish> and the guys you attacked first remained destroyed, slightly more but equally effectively Mar 12 16:14:56 <Fish> you, of course, got nuked as well Mar 12 16:16:15 <Master_Ninja> Have we resolved this point yet? Mar 12 16:17:08 <Fish> 16:12 Master_Ninja - Mark Reynold sent a PM to Guppy Fish, which Guppy Fish felt was both insulting and threatening. - states what happened Mar 12 16:17:25 <Fish> doesn't reveal anything, hence your willingness to post it ^ Mar 12 16:17:47 <Fish> 16:12 Master_Ninja - Mark Reynolds sent Guppy Fish a PM with insults and threats inside - practically also what happened Mar 12 16:18:00 <Master_Ninja> No, it just lacks a bias, which your interpretation does. Mar 12 16:18:18 <Fish> it's a bias most the world would agree with. Mar 12 16:18:27 <Fish> Talking about the war against RE Mar 12 16:18:37 <Fish> saying "Unfortunately, you outnumber us <5 to 1 Mar 12 16:18:49 <Fish> Regarding my "cowardice" Mar 12 16:19:06 <Fish> Do the smart thing and negotiate an end to this war. - implying much? Mar 12 16:19:16 <Fish> I have bad news for you. The guy who attacked us was a noob who was unaware that we always fight back when we are attacked. Having made our point, we peaced out with both him and his alliance. - bad news? Mar 12 16:19:53 <Master_Ninja> Look, none of us have the right to stop you from posting that. If you really want it out there, post it. You will face any repercussions. Mar 12 16:20:08 <Master_Ninja> My way is diplomatic and correct, and leads no bias to any side. Mar 12 16:20:27 <Fish> the thing is, Mar 12 16:20:30 <Fish> if you put that... Mar 12 16:20:35 <Fish> you're acknowledging NOTHING! Mar 12 16:20:46 <Fish> other than the fact that Mark Reynolds sent me a PM! Mar 12 16:21:01 <Master_Ninja> No, I am acknowledging what happened. It is unbiased. Mar 12 16:21:17 <Fish> that's not the point Mar 12 16:21:17 <Fish> Mar 12 16:21:20 <Dolphin> Again, I view this as a fancy "back off" PM Mar 12 16:21:27 <Fish> fancy. Mar 12 16:21:33 <Fish> ... Mar 12 16:21:35 <Fish> Mar 12 16:21:37 <Dolphin> Well, it was more words ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 16:21:47 <Master_Ninja> On our side we could say: Guppy Fish ignored our attempt to make peace with him via PM, so we had no choice but to continue the war. Mar 12 16:21:55 <Master_Ninja> Both sides are valid interpretations. Mar 12 16:22:04 <Fish> yeah, well, I post the contents, Mar 12 16:22:09 <Master_Ninja> Mine is an inbetween unbiased one. Mar 12 16:22:11 <Fish> and it's pretty clear WHY. Mar 12 16:22:23 <Dolphin> I'm confused Mar 12 16:22:50 <Dolphin> Are you trying to get us to post something to avoid you posting the contents, or as a requirement for peace Mar 12 16:22:51 <Fish> and it's pretty clear WHY [I "ignored" the "attempt to make peace"] Mar 12 16:23:08 <Fish> the posting something is something I want for peace Mar 12 16:23:16 <Fish> and if you absolutely refuse, I have to post it to show it. Mar 12 16:23:21 <Master_Ninja> Both sides can interpret the PM in different ways. My interpretation explained exactly what happened. Mar 12 16:23:33 <Fish> your interpretation Mar 12 16:23:36 <Fish> is a euphimism Mar 12 16:23:47 <Fish> of what happened. It's what happened, Mar 12 16:23:50 <Fish> but it's a euphimism Mar 12 16:24:19 <Fish> hmm, I'm spelling that incorrectly.. Mar 12 16:24:26 <Fish> ah, an "e" Mar 12 16:24:31 <Fish> EUPHEMISM Mar 12 16:24:49 <Fish> your euphemism conveniently masks the contents to show them as if they were perfectly friendly Mar 12 16:24:51 <Dolphin> I have to go soon Mar 12 16:25:09 <Fish> no more staying around for fish? ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 16:25:20 <Master_Ninja> No, my euphemism masks the fact that you ignored our generous peace offer. Mar 12 16:25:27 <Fish> generous. Mar 12 16:25:27 <Master_Ninja> See how that works? Mar 12 16:25:37 <Dolphin> Anime club. I'll be on via phone to buy more guys when you nuke them Mar 12 16:25:38 <Dolphin> ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 16:25:52 <Fish> lol ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 16:25:54 <Dolphin> Since I don't see you two comming to an agreement any time soon Mar 12 16:26:02 <Master_Ninja> My statement actually masks nothing and allows people to make their own decision. Mar 12 16:26:10 <Fish> I see an SS coming up pretty soon, along with a nuke if that's the situation. Mar 12 16:26:31 <Fish> No, your euphemism masks something. An SS, on the other hand, masks nothing and allows people to make their own decision. Mar 12 16:27:05 <Master_Ninja> SS? Mar 12 16:27:10 <Dolphin> Screen Shot Mar 12 16:27:16 <Master_Ninja> Ah. Mar 12 16:27:19 <Master_Ninja> Go for it. Mar 12 16:27:23 * dulceice[Argent] (ohhaithar@coldfront-A2E1E3B5.lsanca.fios.verizon.net) has joined #gc Mar 12 16:27:25 <Fish> sure thing. Mar 12 16:27:27 <dulceice[Argent]> whut Mar 12 16:27:31 <Dolphin> Again, we're switching between the "I need this for peace" and "I need this to not post it" Mar 12 16:27:35 <Fish> and, I thought I'd bring dulceice to say hi for no good reason. Mar 12 16:27:40 <dulceice[Argent]> HAI Mar 12 16:27:43 <Fish> once again: Mar 12 16:27:44 <Dolphin> Hi dulceice Mar 12 16:27:48 <Master_Ninja> Hi. Mar 12 16:27:54 <Fish> I need the recognition of threats and an insult for peace. Mar 12 16:28:05 <Fish> If that does not happen, I need to post it to show it. Mar 12 16:28:13 <Master_Ninja> Your interpretations of threats and insults. Mar 12 16:28:17 <Dolphin> And we need some reassurance that this won't happen again. Mar 12 16:28:25 <Dolphin> Which you don't seem to ahve the autority to make... Mar 12 16:28:30 <Fish> Dolphin, we had that covered forever ago Mar 12 16:28:43 <Fish> where master_ninja agreed to send the PMs and I'd enforce it as well as possible. Mar 12 16:28:45 <Fish> < Mar 12 16:28:53 <Fish> now, back on the current point: Mar 12 16:29:00 <Fish> that's the situation of the peace negotiation. Mar 12 16:29:28 <Dolphin> I must of misssed something then Mar 12 16:29:37 <Master_Ninja> We can acknowledge that you felt threatened and insulted. Mar 12 16:29:53 <Fish> and, evidently, not that there were threats and insults. Mar 12 16:30:08 <Master_Ninja> But, we cannot acknowledge that the PM itself was threatening and insulting. That is a matter of perception. Mar 12 16:30:34 <Fish> then acknowledge the PM in its words, by my posting the SS(s) Mar 12 16:30:37 * MIKE1587[GC] (Adium@coldfront-4F18B8F5.nap.wideopenwest.com) has joined #gc Mar 12 16:30:38 * ChanServ gives channel operator status to MIKE1587[GC] Mar 12 16:30:44 <Fish> ummmmmmmmmmmmm Mar 12 16:30:45 <Fish> oooooooooooooooooookay? Mar 12 16:30:52 <Dolphin> You want us that it is a real PM? Mar 12 16:30:53 <Fish> hi Mike1587[GC] Mar 12 16:30:56 <Dolphin> is this really what it is about? Mar 12 16:30:59 <Fish> what!? Mar 12 16:30:59 <MIKE1587[GC]> hello Mar 12 16:31:03 <Fish> no comprendo grammar. Mar 12 16:31:03 <Fish> Mar 12 16:31:08 <Fish> "You want us that it is" Mar 12 16:31:10 Master_Ninja MIKE1587[GC] Mar 12 16:31:13 <Master_Ninja> No, you can post the PM if you want. Mar 12 16:31:25 >MIKE1587[GC]< Your gonna need a primer in we just went over ---EMOT REMOVED--- Mar 12 16:31:28 <Master_Ninja> We will just acknowledge you felt threatened. Mar 12 16:32:04 <Fish> If that's final, then my decision too is final, and the PM will be posted. Evidently, the war will continue too. Mar 12 16:32:14 <Fish> I'll go accept M's offer to help now. Mar 12 16:32:57 <Fish> and I'll SS you that if you don't believe me, too. Mar 12 16:33:34 <Master_Ninja> Look, I have tried to resolve this diplomatically. Mar 12 16:33:54 <Fish> And, as I'm quick to point out, not very well! Mar 12 16:33:54 <Master_Ninja> What you decide to do is your problem.[/spoiler] [spoiler]** MIKE1587[GC] joined #gc 16:30 +++ ChanServ has given op to MIKE1587[GC] 16:30 Fish ummmmmmmmmmmmm 16:30 Fish oooooooooooooooooookay? 16:30 Dolphin You want us that it is a real PM? 16:30 Fish hi Mike1587[GC] 16:31 Dolphin is this really what it is about? 16:31 Fish what!? 16:31 MIKE1587[GC] hello 16:31 Fish no comprendo grammar. 16:31 Fish 16:31 Fish "You want us that it is" 16:31 Master_Ninja No, you can post the PM if you want. 16:31 Master_Ninja We will just acknowledge you felt threatened. 16:32 Fish If that's final, then my decision too is final, and the PM will be posted. Evidently, the war will continue too. 16:32 Fish I'll go accept M's offer to help now. 16:33 Fish and I'll SS you that if you don't believe me, too. 16:33 Master_Ninja Look, I have tried to resolve this diplomatically. 16:33 Master_Ninja What you decide to do is your problem. 16:33 Fish And, as I'm quick to point out, not very well! 16:34 Master_Ninja I tried to find a unbiased solution. 16:34 Fish Actually, this time it's yours. 16:34 Fish It's not an unbiased solution, it's a euphemism. 16:34 Master_Ninja No, I already demonstrated it was not. 16:34 Fish well I disagree with your demonstration 16:35 Fish and I'm sure the rest of OWF-land will, too 16:35 Master_Ninja It was stating exactly what happened. I offered you the opportunity to post the SS if you like. 16:35 Fish you don't need to offer me that opportunity 16:35 Fish or, should I say, 16:35 Fish I don't need you to offer it. 16:35 Master_Ninja Look, we feel that the PM was not insulting you feel it was. Stating that you felt insulted is the middle ground. 16:36 Dolphin can hardly believe this is a peace negotiation 16:36 Dolphin is going to go watch anime 16:36 Fish sure, have fun 16:36 Fish Oo 16:36 Master_Ninja Have fun! 16:36 Fish lol. 16:36 Dolphin Cute Girls + Cartoons = better than here 16:36 Dolphin 16:36 Fish butbutbut THERE'S FISH HERE 16:36 Fish 16:36 Fish anyway. 16:36 Dolphin .... those cute girls not being the ones in the cartoons. Before anyone says anything sly.... 16:37 Fish lol 16:37 Fish anyway. 16:37 Fish You seriously feel the PM ISN'T INSULTING?!?!?!??! 16:37 Fish I disagree with your feeling. >_> 16:37 Fish It pretty clearly is. 16:38 Master_Ninja I think it is stating how the GC deals with things. I can see how it could be taken as insulting. 16:38 Master_Ninja But it is not inherently insulting. 16:38 Fish it's not 100% insult, 16:38 Fish but it certainly is insulting: from every angle it shows 16:39 Fish even from that of Mark Reynolds. 16:39 Master_Ninja Not necessarily. 16:39 Master_Ninja That is your perception. 16:39 Master_Ninja To argue semantically. 16:39 Fish I'm almost 100% sure of that perception, 16:39 Fish Regarding your cowardice - pretty insulting. 16:39 Fish Does he take cowardice as a compliment?> 16:39 Master_Ninja An item cannot be inherently insulting, it may only be perceived as insulting. 16:40 Fish that's true, 16:40 Fish but when 99.99% of the world takes it as insulting, 16:40 Fish it's insulting, no two ways about it. 16:40 Master_Ninja Again that is your opinion. 16:41 Master_Ninja Unless you surveyed the entire world, you would not know how they felt. 16:41 *** Dolphin quit (Quit: Steamboy... Yay!) 16:41 Fish 16:41 Fish yeah, that's right. 16:41 Fish However, some things don't require the whole world to be surveyed. 16:41 Master_Ninja Again, your opinion. 16:41 Fish This is getting rather pointless. 16:41 Master_Ninja You perceive that the rest of the world would be insulted by it, because you were insulted by it. 16:42 Fish This is the situation: 16:42 Fish For peace, one of my terms is that you guys acknowledge what I've noted so far. 16:42 Fish You do not want to acknowledge point 3 the way I wanted you to: you are only willing to acknowledge a euphemism of it. 16:43 Fish If you do not acknowledge it, I will have to post the SS onto the OWF, and the war will have to continue. 16:43 Fish That's all there is to it. Take your pick. 16:44 Master_Ninja Look, I did not want to argue the complete semantics of the situation. I can offer a middle ground, were we acknowledge that you have valid points, but we disagree with them. 16:44 Fish It's an acknowledge or don't acknowledge kind of thing. 16:45 Master_Ninja Well then, let me ask you a question, are you in the PS/OP or the RE/SE side of the larger war? 16:45 Fish don't keep leaving out THP 16:45 Master_Ninja True. 16:45 Fish I am, of course, on neither side, but there is certainly a side I support. 16:46 Fish (and I would intervene on that side's behalf if it got out of hand, though that's unlikely) 16:47 Master_Ninja Okay, then apply that situation to ours. Both sides of the larger war have differing opinions of the war, what caused it, and who is in the right. 16:47 Master_Ninja We both have similar situations. 16:47 Master_Ninja So, personal views on anything have to be ignored. 16:48 Fish be back. 16:48 Fish Both sides of the war we are in have differing opinions, and who is right. 16:48 Fish However, personal views on anything cannot be ignored, because the current post from Mark Reynolds is an opinion 16:49 Master_Ninja Yes, and you posted your view. 16:49 Fish and it is one from YOUR SIDE; the opinion must be absolutely clarified. 16:49 Fish ah, well! 16:49 Master_Ninja Both views have been shown to the OWF. 16:49 Fish My side hasn't been very completely. 16:49 Master_Ninja Then you can explain it. That is not my responsibility. 16:50 Master_Ninja But still, both viewpoints have been given, and neither side is ever going to be willing to agree completely with the other side. 16:50 Fish Once again, your response to this: 16:50 Fish Will you or will you not acknowledge all of my points in the way I have noted? 16:51 Master_Ninja Okay, would you agree with what Mark posted? 16:51 Fish No, I wouldn't, 16:51 Master_Ninja Then why should we agree with you? 16:51 Fish but the difference is that his post is a euphemism, 16:51 Fish whereas the ScreenShot is the absolute and unbiased truth. 16:51 Fish I know that you don't want to. 16:51 Master_Ninja Post it. It is yours to post! 16:52 Fish It is mine to post. 16:52 Master_Ninja Yes. 16:52 Fish Therefore, I have interpreted your response as a "No". 16:52 Master_Ninja Hmmm? 16:52 Fish This current discussion has therefore been resolved, 16:52 Fish and the consequences will be the consequences. 16:52 Master_Ninja I really do not care whether you post it or not. 16:52 Fish If I'm correct in my last statements, I will leave now. 16:52 Fish This is a Yes/No question. 16:53 Master_Ninja Then, yes. Post it. 16:53 Master_Ninja I have told you you can. 16:53 Fish The conversation is over. 16:53 *** Fish left #gc[/spoiler]

[quote name='Guppy Fish' timestamp='1299805548' post='2659246'] -First of all, I have NO POSITION OF AUTHORITY in the Fellowship. ... I will reopen to peace negotiations on Friday, March 11, 2011. [/quote] Those two positions seem a tad contradictory. Shouldn't you not be in any position to declare peace if you have no authority? Your attempt at exercising power without accepting any responsibility amuses me.

o/ GC Let's fight the good fight!

As somewhat of a newcomer to these boards, the amount of bickering I see between all the alliances is ridiculous. It's obvious both sides are set in their ways, just settle it on the battlefield.

Bump!

Bump.

Bump.

Hi Everyone! I am just here to announce the creation of a new alliance! The Astral Alliance! We already have about ten members and have established a forum. So come check us out at http://z13.invisionfree.com/AstralAlliance/index.php?act=idx and contribute to this awesome new alliance. [quote] The Astral Alliance Charter I. Purpose A. The purpose of the Astral Alliance is to be an alliance for nations needing help or a safe refuge. B. The Astral Alliance is committed to its members and will protect its members that are attacked. II. Government A. The figurehead of the government is the Astral Emperor. B. The government is led by the Triumvirate. These three members are called Triums. C. The Celestial Council is a council of five members that backs the Triumvirate and are heads of specific areas of government. Council Members are called Chancellors. D. The Assembly of Peers is the voice of the people. It is a group of nine members that pass ideas to the Celestial Council from the people. III. Government Positions A. Astral Emperor 1. Elected for life or until the decide to leave the alliance or step down 2. Must approve all legislation B. Triums 1. Trium of War: Oversees formation of the military and authorizes wars and war aid. 2. Trium of Foreign Affairs: Oversees relations with other alliances and approves ambassadors. 3. Trium of Internal Affairs: Oversees approval of grants and new members and is responsible for the bi-weekly newsletter. C. Chancellors 1. Chancellor of Intelligence: Regulates spy attempts and the Special Ops. 2. Chancellor of Recruiting: Regulates recruiting and recruiting challenges. 3. Chancellor of Finances: Regulates cash flow between members, organizes bankers, and records debts. 4. Chancellor of Public Relations: Updates wiki and recruiting message on the CyberNations forums. Announces AA-related news. 5. Chancellor of Commerce: Oversees aid to non-alliance nations and organizes trade circles. IV. Elections A. Elections are held every two months. B. Triums are elected for three months by the Celestial Council. After their term is done, they must get a 3-2 vote from the Celestial Council to be reinstated. C. The Assembly of Peers and the Celestial Council are democratically elected by majority. V. Membership A. Members must first register on the forum. B. Members must then sign-up on the thread. C. Potential members will be masked as Validating and required to set their Alliance Affiliation to AA Applicant. D. After the members successfully pass two test, they will be masked as a Member and required to set their Alliance Affiliation of the The Astral Alliance. VI. Protection A. Members will always be protected if they are attacked unless an extenuating circumstance arises. B. Members will not be protected if they declare war or an illegal tech raid. VII. Legislative Process A. Legislation is proposed by any member. B. Assembly of Peers votes, and if a 5-4 majority arises the legislation goes to the Celestial Council. C. The Celestial Council votes, and if a 3-2 majority arises the legislation is passed. D. Passed legislation can be vetoed by the Triumvirate and the Emperor in a 3-1 combined vote. VIII. Mergering/Disbandment A. Possible mergers and disbandments must first by approved by the Triumvirate and the Emperor. B. The decision will then be passed onto the members and if a 75% majority is reached then the merger of disbandment occurs. IX. Wars A. Wars can be declared by the Astral Emperor if situations are deemed absolutely necessary. B. In less extreme circumstances, the Triumvirate with vote upon the action with a majority needed for it to pass. The Emperor must then approve the action. X. Tech Raids A. Tech raids must be approved of by the Trium of War and/or the Emperor to be allowed. B. They consist of two land attacks and any spy attempts to change Defcon level. C. Once allowed if the raider receives any resistance he must immediately declare peace. D. Any retaliation upon the raider will receive no reimbursement. A nation tech raids at its own risk. Signatories, Master Ninja, founder of the Astral Alliance.[/quote]

Bump.

Bump.

Bump.

I had not even realized that the acronym stood for hydroxide.

I am going to tell you about a new founded alliance, the Order of Harmony or OH for short. We have just been founded and if you sign up now you can skip the application process and become a full-fledged member. We offer financial aid and a start-up aid. All the government positions save one are open so join now for priority. Check us out at: http://z13.invisionfree.com/OrderofHarmony/index.php?act=idx Here is our charter:

The Confederation of Aqua Nations wants you to be part of this quickly growing alliance. We offer great ways to met veterans to Cybernations and protection to all those in need. There are many ways to get involved in CAN and elections for positions of authority are being held soon. So come one come all and join CAN. Together we can! Check us out at: http://z13.invisionfree.com/CAN/index.php?act=idx Thanks, Master Ninja

The Confederation of Aqua Nations wants you to be part of this quickly growing alliance. We offer great ways to met veterans to Cybernations and protection to all those in need. There are many ways to get involved in CAN and elections for positions of authority are being held soon. So come one come all and join CAN. Together we can! Check us out at: http://z13.invisionfree.com/CAN/index.php?act=idx Thanks, Master Ninja