Azaghul

There are plenty of mediocre alliances these days, but I don't think many today can compete with some of the truly terrible ones in the past. Any list that doesn't include GGA is incomplete.

I'm not happy with it, but I'd also point out that we have a positive damage ratio against IRON and that IRON has the worst damage ratio of the big alliances on your side.

Rush for triumvir!

Once's he's low on nukes, he will on average land .8 nukes a day (2 nukes x 40% shot of getting past SDI.) If he's only fighting one person at a time, he'll land one nuke a day. The difference is only .2 nukes a day. Unless he gets unlucky against SDIs, running out of nukes won't make much difference.

There's a middle ground between letting him off now and fighting him permanently. Fighting for a couple of rounds and then negotiating terms both sides will find acceptable. A few things about these terms: 1) They are being offered before much fighting has taken place. The goal seems to be to damage o ya baby as a deterrent to future attackers. That can be done either through fighting or through imposed terms. If the goal is to do a certain amount of damage, the more damage done by war, the less the less damage has to be done by terms to reach whatever benchmark they set. 2) GPA, from what has been made public, presented them as a starting place for negotiation, not a "take it or leave it" proposition. 3) Both sides will want to save face, that's usually easier to do after a good fight than before.

Told them he was gonna do it? Probably. Asked for permission or approval? Very unlikely, that's now how o ya baby operates. He does what he wants to do. Second part: You could argue the cultural point but O Ya Baby was the raiding type long before he was in DBDC. I know O Ya Baby and saw the way he interacted with government leaders in MK. He is not at all the type of person to seek permission or ask his government's opinion about doing things before he does them. And he is definitely the type of person who gets bored and does things like this on his own initiative. First part: You can argue that with DBDC. I'm just commenting on how they think, and they aren't likely to see it the same way you do.

O Ya Baby has always been willing to do his own thing, especially when he's bored. Not just in DBDC, but when he was in MK as well. DBDC probably will not completely disown him. I'd expect them to intervene if they think he's getting treated too harshly. But that doesn't mean they told or encouraged him to do this.

Mogar is just trying to sound smart.

No, but it's the best way to minimize the number of his nukes they eat.

Anyone who believes that preserving stats wasn't the main reason it was signed is either politically naive and unfamiliar with the record of both alliances, or just saying they believe it because they are in or allied to IRON and/or DBDC.

MK just liked to win every award ever period as a way of t******* the seriousness of the awards.

Good show by GPA with the counter and not just lying down and taking it. As a former alliance mate with o ya baby as well as well as former GPA member, I'm not sure who to root for, but I will enjoy watching it!

If I had lead NpO I probably would have done something like that. Though I can see why they didn't if they saw it as bait to try to trigger a larger war. TOP and NpO made mistakes. Not least of which was letting the war be dragged on by going along with people wanting those terms on NPO. But you are trying to spin this all as somehow a DBDC vs. TOP/NpO. A clever red herring, but fundamentally has little relevance to what I'm saying because there is far more going on than some some kind of TOP/NpO vs DBDC rivalry. For one, DBDC has raided far more than just NpO or its allies, and the goals it like to tout involve far more than just NpO/TOP's sphere. For example the decision to attack a small neutral like Pax Corvus, rather than a large neutral like WTF or GPA, has nothing to do with NpO or TOP. Second, I don't care very much that TOP has been "neutered" by DBDC. TOP has only 5 nations in the top 250. Including one which is useless dead weight I would be happy to see attacked and if it were up to me would have been kicked from TOP a year ago. It's very unlikely that I'm personally ever going to be even close to the top 250, especially after this war. I like to war too much. If you think I'm saying all this just to tote the party line for TOP, you are wrong.

The political fallout from inaction may be harsh, but I was talking about the statistical fallout. Though I'll concede that you could say the political fallout might lead to a worse statistical one down the road. But even with that there are plenty of cases where alliances could have gotten away politically with not entering onto a losing side but did it anyway, or engaged a lot more than they needed (winning or loosing) to avoid negative attention. For their self pride, as a sacrifice to help their friends, to satisfy a grudge, or even because they just like to war and don't care that much about their stats. They wouldn't have been able to do a huge amount of damage, but they could at least have kept it from being profitable and done some damage.

That was definitely pathetic. Even if you can't win you should do the best you can to damage your enemy.

Every alliance that enters into a loosing war hurts it's short and long term statistical position. And every alliance that heavily engages even in a winning war.

Pax Corvus had some big nations, but their big nations were outnumbered by your big nations so while they could still do some damage if they fought back, they could be tag teamed and would still be knocked out of range within a round or two. They didn't pose a serious threat because you'd easily win a war of attrition. The risk was pretty small. I'll grant you that there was some risk with TDO/GOP, before the NAP with IRON and all, but that was in the beginning of your history. It'd be one thing if we were JUST talking about IRON, that could be explained by politics. But you also haven't hit OBR, GPA*, or WTF the three other alliances that would pose a reasonable challenge: OBR because of Hime's stat's (he couldn't be taken down in just a round or two), GPA and WTF because of number of top tier nations (easily winning the war of attrition isn't guaranteed.) Those three neutral alliances have 64 of the nations in the top 250, well over a third of the remaining nations in the top 250 if you take out DBDC and allies. Also: I really don't care about TOP's relationship to any of this. A year ago I liked DBDC, before you started to play it safe all the time. I still like Doomsquad and a lot of your members as individuals. I might have joined DBDC or DS after this war even. *with the exception of o ya baby, but that's him doing his own thing I'm willing to bet.

DBDC obviously only signed a NAP with IRON because DBDC only picks fights where it outnumbers the other party enough that they pose no serious risk to their stats. It's the same reason they (except for O Ya Baby) haven't attacked WTF, GPA, or OBR. Certain (mostly ex-MK) members of DBDC might like a good, competitive, fight, or at least used to, but it's clear that's not the spirit of the alliance as a whole. IRON also didn't want to have it's upper tier nations smashed or have them have to sit in peace mode long term, thus the NAP. Yes former enemies have reconciled (like TOP/MK or TOP/NpO), usually after a big fight where they both smash each other. That never took place between DBDC and IRON. ETA: To preeempt any "BUT WHAT ABOUT TOP BEING IN PEACEMODE" objections, if it were up to me personally TOP would have more engaged, and I have engaged my own nation and lost about 70,000 NS so far (but dished out quite a bit more.)

I don't have anyone on ignore but I can certainly see why some people do, and it's not because of having differing opinions.

I seem to remember Tywin posting a treaty announcement as well, which would also give the impression of him having an important position in snx. Letting him be the biggest public face for a new alliance was a very poor decision.

That's not because either of them were afraid of the other, but because they were in PB together and also had very strong mutual ties in MK, GOONS, and C&G. They only ended up on opposite sides after MK disbanded and it's former ally sphere split.

Most CN players are western and/or Christian and celebrate Christmas. I'm also with kingzog that I would be willing to agree to a truce for someone celebrating another religious holiday that was important to them. It's not a black and white thing. I, and probably many others, COULD check CN on Christmas, be up for both updates, do attacks, etc. And probably would/will if a truce doesn't happen. But I'd much rather not and if the same is true for my opponents, a Christmas truce is a win/win.

I might offer a Christmas truce, and would accept one if it was offered. Definitely going to offer a New Years eve update truce.

You're trying too hard to make a nonsensical analogy work.

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