Azaghul

The post he was responding to was someone threatening to declare wars on ODN members.

Only in Schattenman's world is engaging someone diplomatically to try to find a way towards peace "threatening to intervene".

I wonder how many of those were people who serious about it and people who were making fun of those who are serious about it. In MK's case it was the latter.

Well that's just peachy.

I wouldn't call it "MK revisionism.", I don't think MK or ex-MK disproportionately discount Vox. Blue wasn't even mentioning MK but the fractures in Continuum. Also MK's "allying" NPO was a PIAT that Archon effectively used to stab them in the back. Vox was definitely a driving force, but not the only one. I'd say a big part of Vox's legacy is not just the defeat of NPO, which might have happened anyway (though they certainly contributed), but the messaging that went into it. I have to disagree with this one. Clearly they are very good at building stats, though they weren't the pioneer of the elite model (credit for that I'd give to the Gremlins.) they have done the best at maintaining it the longest. However I'd say their political impact has been pretty minimal. Their current and former long time leader, Roquentin, is a master of sitting on his hands and letting other people fight while Umbrella does very little fighting to improve Umbrella's position (kind of like Roose Bolton in the ASOIAF books except without the leadership.) They very rarely lead events, the only time I think one can really led events or really fought hard in a war was in Equilibrium. During the Doomhouse era they mostly begrudgingly followed MK's lacking an agenda of their own. This last war was pure bandwaggoning.

I kind of agree with Tywin but not even that the ambition is to get into the top 2%, but to get a middle or upper middle tier nation that is really "relevant" takes at least a year or two. I'd also point to wars lasting a lot longer because of world mechanics: bigger nations, huge warchests, and indestructible wonders means it takes a very long time to feel like you've done a lot of significant damage to an alliance. This dynamic will exist to some degree in any universe, but is true to an even larger degree in this one because of indestructible stats as well as the availability of peace mode. After a month or so wars lose their fun and become tedious. And the very long rebuild time between wars (also a function of the size of nations and warchests) isn't appealing to many participants. The political culture is also well established instead of a blank slate, well established alliances and ties have long term members that tend to dominate government and make it harder for new rulers to rise up the ranks of established alliances and/or build their own powerful alliances. (OOC: and just in terms of games, the nature of the internet has changed and long term text based games have better competition.)

Congrats Marx!

Yay for not having to be on at updates any more!

9. 22 (9 v. 13) 406,849 (263,820 v. 143,029) ▶ Azaghul (The Order Of The Paradox) This is pretty sweet, especially since I only went into this war upper middle tier in terms of tech and NS (14200 tech, somewhere around 130K NS)

planetbob.txt these days. (This is not a hit on NG, it's an issue in most alliances I'd be willing to bet.)

In some forgotten room somewhere there are hundreds of awards for MK gathering dust.

When multiple members of your own alliance are publicly telling you to shut up, you should probably shut up.

If your alliance wasn't awful at keeping nations staggered that might help too.

That's a whole lot of cancellations, I hope it turns out well for you.

NPO: Really set the bar for dominance and forging the world as we see it. MK: Reigned for longer than NPO, and changed the world in many ways. Ultimately I'd rank NPO just a tad higher for being the first, and NPO's hold on power was closer to being absolute. NpO: Never dominant in the same way NPO (pre-Karma). and MK were, but definitely important. Probably been the main target of a coalition more than any other alliance. GOONS (v1) To over simply things: set the precedent for the more silly/fun (as opposed to serious like NPO) style of play There's a big gap between NPO/MK and then NpO/GOONS, and then between NpO/GOONS and any other alliances. Honorable mentions: - Vox: Their propaganda campaign was very significant in setting the tone for Karma. That being said people overstate their impact by ignoring the other political undercurrents that led to it. - TOP: Frequently a major political player. Came close to achieving dominance before Bipolar. - VE: Also frequently a major political player politically, if not as much statistically. - GPA: Set the template and precedent for neutral alliances that other neutrals (TDO, WTF, etc.) have followed. - Gremlins: The original "elite" alliance. And also one of the first alliances to really develop and cultivate a "moralist" (for lack of a better word) image. - Valhalla: For the reasons Rush said. DBDC hasn't been around long enough to see what type of long term impact they might have and while they intensely dominate one aspect of the world, their overall reach is more limited. They don't have the kind of political reach that NPO, MK, and NpO had at their peaks.

Not surprised at all at this, meaning CTs break from DBDC. He was an odd fit and it was clear at the time he was just protecting himself. At least he's backing up his words with actions, even if all the "your next so you should fight now!" rhetoric is in vain. It's been tried before and hasn't worked.

Did we really need another one of these threads?

Looks like I was wrong, and I'm glad I was. Happy Birthday!

If you wanto talk about "an [egregious] overreach of boundaries for the sole purpose of looking for nations in range to target.", your alliance just a week or so ago attacked an alliance solely for being allied to another alliance at war. That is FAR worse than going after tech sellers. Most of the time tech selling during war goes under the radar, because it's relatively minor and most people know when to stop. But it's ALWAYS been a thing that people had a right to object to someone sending money or tech, even as part of a tech deal, to someone they are at war with. The only thing that has varied has been what people have been able or willing to do about it. And now I have to go wash my mouth out because I've been forced to agree with FARK.

Come on Bob you're smarter than to make a ridiculous argument like this. This is Mogar/Tywin level dumb.

Sounds like this is a good move. I remember hearing of Pulisher causing drama when I was in MK gov as a Nor ally a couple of years ago.

The idea that Cuba is some sort of "tyrant" because he has the biggest nation is ridiculous. I don't believe he's even the most active or important leader in DBDC.

I feel like Infinite Citadel and I belong in here somewhere.

I disagree about pre-Karma NPO. I guess it depends on your definition of "worst". I definitely hated them, but I don't think were objectively a "bad" alliance. Definitely had their flaws, but they didn't dominate the game for several years by being completely incompetent.

I personally am willing to look past what you did in the past because it's been so long, but I wasn't directly involved, so I understand why the Nor people aren't welcoming you with open arms. Oh man I remember being in the middle of this.