Seerow

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1289937756' post='2514963'] Sorry, it doesn't say that at all. Pick another random overused and pointless come back out of the bag and try again? [/quote] Says the man whose post says "do something about it" (am i doin it rite?)

[quote name='bedeur' timestamp='1289935798' post='2514912'] This is probably the most hypocritical thread ever posted by MK. Considering the fact that you treat your non-allies who [i]dare[/i] post on your forums like !@#$, MK crying because NPO is policing their own forums really made me laugh. Right, this is how YOU have personally been treating NATO on YOUR forums in the recent past: This is only one example among others, and NATO shouldn't complain considering everything that has been said to the Legion representatives for example. So yeah, keep crying, keep trying to divert the negative attention you've been getting recently to Pacifica, keep asking for the respect you don't grant foreign ambassadors on your forums. You obviously believe that the CN crowd is stupid enough not to understand what you're doing. Well, keep fooling yourself, I'll thoroughly enjoy the results. [/quote] In case it wasn't pointed out already: 1) That was Voytek. y'know the guy STA kicked out and we didn't care. He tends to rub people the wrong way. 2) That wasn't in an embassy. That was on a public forum, during our WAE contest. When you're talking about something like "Who is the worst alliance ever" expect emotions to run hot and people to be offended by what is said. Especially if you're one of the finalists. That doesn't necessarily justify Voytek's comments there, but it is worth noting the screencapped post was public, and not in diplomatic channels. edit: [quote]I'm surprised this isn't a DoW. I thought everyone knew MK would use even the dumbest reason to hit NPO. Is the Kingdom's leadership getting soft? [/quote] We're going to wait 6 months, then hit them in a surprise attack with this as the CB. Because we've been known to do that frequently, according to our critics. After all, the only thing better than attacking with a dumb CB is to attack with a 6 month old dumb CB, am I right?

[quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1289936324' post='2514927'] Thought provoking and piercingly insightful. [/quote] It is at least as relevant as your posts.

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1289935240' post='2514891'] They had Outcast tags. I think its reasonable enough to assume they were on bad terms with us. [/quote] Outcast tags from an event 3 years ago that didn't really warrant that tag even then. The extent of our crimes against Pacifica were literally leaving the alliance. We had pretty much all assumed that the grudge was long since past. At least since I was let off the ZI list, and that was well over a year ago at this point.

[quote name='MCRABT' timestamp='1289928685' post='2514785'] What a waste of time, both your writing of this announcement and my reading of it. This is the kind piss poor drama I would expect to see between two micro alliances. I hope this achieved your objectives. [/quote] I'm sorry we failed to meet your entertainment standards. Next time we'll vet any topic by you before posting, to make sure it meets your OWF posting standards.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1289927769' post='2514769'] Because it contained the words MK and NPO in the same announcement. [/quote] Now imagine how many pages the thread would have been had you not demasked me and tamerlane, and we were signing that MADP instead. As to the answer of why use the 3mil:100 tech ratio rather than 3mil:150, I figured I could afford that generosity. Just asking for the reps to be converted to tech creates enough hassle to avoid me needing to raise the amount significantly. If you are confident that is no problem, we can easily raise the amount to an even 10,000 tech, to be divided between Tamerlane and myself equally. Hopefully that offer is enough to satisfy your pride, because that is as much extortion as I can stomach for two individuals. Going beyond that we'd have to cut the rest of the alliance in, and that's just unacceptable.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1289925631' post='2514732'] 100m per envoy? Have you forgotten who you are talking to? We are Pacifica, the world's greatest provider of reparations, regardless what those upstarts at TOP might think. You are insulting our ability by providing such a figure. [/quote] Good point. We'll start the bidding at 3500 tech each, and proceed from there. Seems much more reasonable.

[quote name='Arcades057' timestamp='1289924616' post='2514718'] To Seerow: Perhaps a better first step to getting masked on our forum as a diplomat would have been to contact a higher-up, personally, perhaps one whom you had known in the past, to assure that your presence would not cause any friction. Personally I have no dog in the hunt, as I wasn't a Pacifican when you did whatever it was that you did, however whatever you did is a matter of perception. To you, it's nothing to get panties in a bunch over. To someone else, it might very well be, and I do believe this is where we find ourselves. [/quote] Perhaps. But upon requesting my mask, had there been a problem, I could have been contacted via PM on the NPO forums or here, or via IRC (I've been on coldfront pretty reliably the last week or so, compared to usual), and we could have hashed things out. Similarly after I was masked, if people had trouble, it could have been addressed in the embassy, rather than demasking me without any given reason. The way things were handled is a pretty clear diplomatic insult, which is what provoked the Kingdom to respond in kind.

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289924151' post='2514706'] AKA you have no idea what you are talking about and will wait for someone else in your alliance to come and bail you out for your statements. It's ok bro, I have been there before. [/quote] I edited my last post, but since it's on the previous page and likely won't be seen I want to comment that the vandalization mentioned is likely referencing something that took place offsite, which if I recall is what led to cager being banned. It is a completely separate incident, and was justified, which is why no mention of it was made.

[quote name='Arcades057' timestamp='1289923856' post='2514695'] So you do not have a traitor mask on our forums, is what you're saying? [/quote] I have an outcast mask, earned from leaving your alliance over 3 years ago in response to my leader and close friend being expelled. I have since moved on. NPO had their year of keeping me at ZI in the interim, one would think that getting their pound of flesh in such a manner would imply I have paid my dues, and they had moved on too. The fact that they haven't is both hilarious and sad at the same time. [quote]Vandalized intellectual property? What does that even mean? Do you have proof of said offense or is this another manufactured situation that you guys seem to be so good at? [/quote] I believe the vandalization they're referring to is some offsite drama. I remember hearing something about some drama going on with regards to that, and such an overt act is justification for removal from the forums.

[quote name='Arcades057' timestamp='1289923590' post='2514687'] Wait... Our feelings on Tamerlane and Seerow, you're saying, don't matter a whit to you, but WE should develop some maturity when you clearly have no desire to take te feelings of others into account? [/quote] Given neither of us did anything wrong? That's pretty much precisely what we're saying.

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1289920720' post='2514621'] Not really. What it shows is that they are able to react without resorting to stomping someone. Not everything needs to lead to a war. In this case, turnabout is fair play. If you can't take it, don't shovel it. [/quote] AirMe didn't you know? There are three possible outcomes for any event: 1) Nothing happens. Insert lots of "Do something about it" statements from smug individuals. 2) Reparations paid. Insert cries of extortion from those paying. 2) War. Insert lots of "Becoming the monster" statements from people getting rolled. There is no middle ground. There is no room for countermeasures that aren't straight up war. Anything else is just a blatant PR grab to cover up one of the above 3 scenarios that have occurred within the last few weeks.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1289920495' post='2514615'] You not using it as a CB just shows how irrelevant this incident was since everyone know that you would love to to roll NPO again if you had a good CB. Also since just two ex-pacificians were kicked I doubt that happened because NPO hatred for MK, looks like their hate this two ex-members who left them to join their greatest enemy. [/quote] When we left NPO to join MK, MK was a newly formed alliance of less than 50 people, and a protectorate of GOONS who was at that time a close NPO ally. Hardly NPOs greatest enemy, regardless of what transpired afterwards.

[quote]well all the fact would actually include the names of the 2 diplomats (seems Voytek may be one not sure though) and what they posted initially and what it was edited to. that is all the facts. what you did was post your version of the events and left it with as little details as possible. there is quite a difference between what you did and what you state here. [/quote] The two diplomats who were demasked in this case were myself and Tamerlane. I unfortunately can't tell you what was edited, given I don't have access to see that, though it would be interesting to see what they are doing with posts made by the two of us. As for what we did to warrant the demasking? We left the NPO 3 years ago. That's pretty much the long and short of it. [quote]Yes we don't want people who were previously been banned from our forums. I say we deserve Karma 2.0. [/quote] Who said anything about Karma 2.0? The original post clearly states there will be no aggressive action taken with respect to this, but your embassy on our forums was deleted following the diplomatic insult issued by demasking two diplomats without just cause.

[quote name='Karolina' timestamp='1289918559' post='2514587'] I already posted before why I think it is. Not going to post it again. [/quote] And many have posted why it is relevant. If you disagree and think that the topic is irrelevant except for PR, then why not just leave it? The fewer people who post the less PR will come out of it on either side.

[quote name='Karolina' timestamp='1289918203' post='2514584'] No, but this is. [/quote] Interesting line of thought.

[quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1289917523' post='2514574'] Wait, so I get that NPO shut down the embassy, and I understand why MK would in return shut down communications with NPO because of it, however did it really deserve an announcement? This looks more like a giant PR attempt to me. [/quote] Do you regularly close embassies without at least giving some notification? This topic is far more relevant to the OWF than a milestone announcement, and at least as relevant as any treaty announcement. Not everything is a desperate PR grab.

[quote name='mrcalkin' timestamp='1289915602' post='2514559'] It's pretty clear that the content isn't their problem, its just who you are. You could probably post any damn thing and expect a similar response. [/quote] I'm aware, that's why I commented that such action taken against a diplomat over a 3 year old grudge is poor form. Sure they are just offended by the site of me, despite me actually being one of the few people in the alliance who isn't "OMG NPO IS EVIL, KILL KILL". Ironic given that I personally was held at ZI for over a year by them, and managed to become a surrender term in of myself in noCB (that one still tickles me). After leaving the NPO I aired greviances I had with their system and their government, almost all of which has been changed since I left, which implies some level of validity in what I said. However I am one of the few people who never got upset about the practice of PZI, viceroys, extortionate reps, forced color sphere changes, destruction of wonders/improvements, etc. This is why I am often so confused by the vitriol still directed at me to this day. I essentially became blacklisted for leaving the alliance. It is surprising to see that level of hate still sustained to the point where I cannot fulfill a diplomatic role, despite being an obvious candidate for such. [quote] Personally, I'd rather know about something like this than about yet another !@#$@#$ microalliance doe'ing, or someone's protection ending, or some alliance hitting 3m ns, etc. but I guess MK isn't allowed to post anymore since every single thing you do is either "for PR" or "!@#$@#$ up your PR", or at least that's what Fernando has been telling me.[/quote] But SoA just hit 100k NS! If it weren't for us posting this thread, that topic would be getting much more face time and making that alliance feel more important. MK is just a spot light hungry PR machine, everything they do is for the PR. 100% of the time.

[quote name='Vladimir' timestamp='1289914866' post='2514553'] Says the alliance manufacturing a travesty of a PR thread like this against an alliance that has barely even posted on the OWF for a year and a half. A couple of individuals from MK were sent over specifically to mock and troll the NPO (eg. posting modified version of old NPO flags and claiming them as MK flags, and making animal noises in order to suggest certain undesirable character traits, amongst other things), and had their ambassador privileges withdrawn as a result. [/quote] Yet the two in question here, myself and tamerlane, did nothing of the sort. Unless of course you edited our posts to make us do such things, I wouldn't know. This however is what brings us to where we are today. Removing two diplomats who had done nothing wrong based on a 3 year old grudge is poor form, and having that sort of breakdown in diplomacy should be expected to have consequence. Calling this a PR thread is a bit of a stretch though. It made clear that the NPO embassy on our forums was being closed in response. The thread could have ended right there. People choosing to make a big deal out of it is what makes it into what it is. I would be willing to guess upon posting this thread, Ardus assumed the general opinion would be "meh why do we care" (as it seems it was), but rather than posting criticizing it, expected no response at all.

[quote]The reasoning behind the Tag is over three years old. I find it hilarious that you guys can't drop a grudge over 3 years after the events took place. And that they still worry you enough for you to ban them from your forums. [/quote] Indeed. It is amazing how long a grudge can be held over the simple act of one [i]leaving an alliance[/i]. Then again this is the classy alliance that had a "$%&@ Seerow" thread running for at least 2 years that I know of (my mask was removed before getting the answer to my question of if it is still going on at this time, so I cannot confirm it is 3 years running). I wish I could figure out what I did to inspire such hate, it would be great to be able to harness that to stir up drama elsewhere. [quote]Once the New Pacific Order realized that these "Enemies of the Order" were posting, they proceeded to effectively ban them from their boards. What did they do to earn this hatred? They left the New Pacific Order in the Summer of 2007, along with a few others, because they were sick of the alliance. NPO still hates them for leaving the alliance during a time of peace. [/quote] To be fair, it was during the tail end of vietFAN, there was still active military operations taking place during that time, though by that point it was mostly smaller scale cleanup. And at the time tamerlane and myself left, there were still such capable individuals are Chron, RV, and SirWilliam who remained behind, more than enough to coordinate such trivial efforts. Moreover had at that point in time the NPO thought they needed the full command there because ongoing operations were so important, it seems like an odd time to expel your only military IO.

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1289711625' post='2512549'] The posts were not supportive of you, per se. They were complete nonsense about extortion, accusations of which no one had levelled at you over this announcement and no one but people with an extreme axe to grind would. I can only see two or three people who fall into that category here so I'm not sure it warranted the pre-emptive strike you deployed. Because a larger number of people took issue with your recent issue with NSO you all decided to try and make light of that by posting nonsense in this discussion. While it may have been done in jest and for your own entertainment it reeked of desperation and cast a negative shadow over what was a routine announcement about an issue handled as it should be. Which was my only point to make on this topic. [/quote] There was already a topic [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94630&view=getnewpost]here[/url] that was indicating any demands made by MK would be considered extortion by some. Us, already being aware of that fact, cannot and should not be faulted for taking the opportunity to laugh at the absurdity of it, even before the accusations (that we knew were coming because they had already been made elsewhere) were posted in this topic. Er I mean we're terrible extortionists, why are you still harping on about this? We freely admit it, why are you turning it into such a big deal?

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1289708938' post='2512520'] It's been sort of fun to watch Seerow try to resurrect his old MilCom glorydays over the past week. "Look, this is me being evil. Look, look. j/k. But, really . . . " [/quote] Nah back then I actually was evil. Now I'm just a bully and extortionist. There's a big difference. Really But I guess going from being inactive for a long time to suddenly posting again is automatically trying to resurrect the 'glory days'. Nevermind the fact that I would never consider any time on the forums as glory days (all the fun of NPO milcom was 100% on IRC, OWF was a cesspool I usually avoided even back then)

[quote name='C Mos' timestamp='1289707882' post='2512510'] You really can't be serious. [/quote] It's Fernando, of course he's serious. The upside is nobody takes him seriously. But he is tempting me to go post a fake DoW, on behalf of MK and GOONS, then go mass PM MK and GOONS telling them to attack, and see what happens. I'm betting there would be a fair bit of outrage and a lot of him running his mouth about what a terrible person I am for the next week or so. It seems like a potentially entertaining passtime.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. How is acknowledging our [i]blatant extortion[/i] hurting our image? It's right there for everyone to see, Archon said it himself in the OP. We're just acknowledging that it happened. MK is a bunch of extortionists, it's what we do. Next week we're planning to hold Halfinger up for ransom. We figure we can get at least 500 tech out of that one.

[quote name='Cager' timestamp='1289691672' post='2512320'] I am requesting a shark week on Fernando's posts alone. [/quote] Can't we add HoT onto that as well?