Caliph

Most wars that I was involved in. The alliances that I was a part in during those wars never accepted reps. I never accepted reps. In fact I paid my share of reps. So claiming that I have to pay for sins of the past is absurd.

Well no, most wars since Karma were white peace.

I only care about what happens to Mongols and Spatr because it sets a new tone of what acceptable in wars now. For years it was beat down then white peace. Not saying Spatr or Mongols wants peace, but given the few people that tried to surrender already and your outrighrt refusal of it, well that also sends a message. The message is mess with Oculus at all and you will be warred for months, no chance of peace until ZT.

Oculus has not allowed SPATR or Mongols to surrender. Not as alliances and not for individual members who may want to. Oculus intends to set an example with these current wars to never $%&@ with Oculus or you will face perma war. ZT and ZI to all who dare oppose Oculus.

I didn't see a question from you directed at me.

Well no. The only possible way the tables could be turned against you is if big parts of Oculus split up and use external treaties to roll the other members of Oculus, just like how Continuum was only able to be defeated with several large alliances in Continuum flat out leaving it after it was attacked and then declared war on a few Continuum members. There does not exist the NS outside of Oculus to defeat Oculus in battle. Even if the rest of CN nutted up, unified on the goal of defeating Oculus, and somehow got he neutrals involved, Oculus would still win. So no, you will not get the tables turned on you unless you are majorly betrayed by current Oculus members. And depending on your enemies to betray each other is not a good strategy.

Somehow I don't think Oculus would mind. I mean its not like anybody can do something about it, Oculus can absorb a hit from anyone, and especially with the non Oculus alliances willing to soak up damage like MHA Gramlins ODN and Polar, to which there just isn't the NS outside of this grouping to pose a credible threat to Oculus outside of Oculus and their power base. The only saving grace is you people might get bored at some point. But thats it, its not like anyone can do anything about it that you couldn't just easily take.

Some feel so slighted they would rather eternal war then quit than to surrender. FAN was under the jackboot of NPO and IRON for years until Karma rolled around and finally ended NPO's dominance and smacked down their laptops of IRON and TPF and other NPO laptogs of that era. Not saying they are going to pull a FAN, but there is a similarity with the bigger agressor side not wanting to peace out with the smaller side after it has been beat down. So yeah, if i was them I'd fight you until I had no money, then reroll and do it again. But I'm not them. I have friends that would have gotten it even worse, and I can't do that to my friends. But all their friends are currently being beaten down by Oculus and no chance for peace, so they really have nothing to lose. And yeah, we've all had to surrender. Even had to pay reps. But the fact is the only time I have ever seen people forced to stay in an AA for 6 months was ... well never. The closest was 2 months for WAPA to join \m/ after GW2, and that was in 2006. Yeah we've had to surrender, but that doesn't mean we have to like it, especially when you kick us in the balls on the way down. You can be gracious about it, or be a dick, and you people have only been dicks. What next, a return to "do something about it" when you have the biggest consolodated NS total in the upper tiers and mid tiers we have ever seen and nothing of note can be done to your bloc? Yeah, do what you want but that doesn't mean I have to like it, and you done pissed me off with the !@#$ you pulled.

Well that would be silly. You haven't attacked any DBDC allies yet. Allies of DBDC allies, yes, but not direct DBDC allies because most of the remaining DBDC allies are in Oculus. There is no ill will to Oculus in DBDC, so for a war to break out between Oculus and DBDC it would have to be initiated by Oculus. And to be honest, you have the stats to defeat DBDC if you wanted to. DBDC, and the rest of the non Oculus alliances left's, upper tiers only exist if you want them to. That includes DBDC.

That might have worked if Oculus was willing to discuss peace terms. They are not because they aren't done.

LC has nothing against DBDC. And as a Doombird I have nothing against DBDC, I'm just stating facts. DBDC can't take out Oculus and doesn't want to, so any Oculus/DBDC war would be Oculus firing the first shot. And given Oculus's upper tier you could easily absord the damage from DBDC like you did wih Bones, Bean, Gator, and the rest of Mongols. Might sting for a bit but it can be done, Oculus has the stats for it. I'm just stating facts here. Not even DBDC could stop Oculus at this point. Not saying they'd want to, but they lack the ability to.

There is a difference between a peace that Oculus can accept and a peace that SPATR/Mongols will accept. Right now Oculus calls ALL the shots, and Mongols/Spatr would rather right Oculus until they can no longer do so than have a humiliating surrender to Oculus. Because sometimes fighting for months longer is better than accepting peace. SPATR/mongols don't have friends kept at war indefinately by Oculus who need an out to be used as leverage against them in negotiations.

If the shoe fits, wear it. And you are trying to jam that shoe on your foot so hard your toes are bleeding.

You still have yet to state what I have done to need a pardon for. Cuz going to war for my friends just ain't it.

You guys are still around? Get more known. Do some !@#$. Congrats

If you think DBDC could take on Oculus if they wanted to you are mistaken. Besides theres not even a will in DBDC to attack Oculus, and Oculus would rather not engage in the many months of warfare it would take to take DBDC down at this point in time. Give it a coupel of months for nations to recover from taking down Timmeh, Gator, Bones, Bean, and the rest of Mongols and then maybe Oculus will fire the first shot, but there absolutely is no way in hell DBDC would gain from attacking Oculus.

Karma is however heavily depended on having the NS to back it up. And nobody has that NS outside of Oculus. So no, there will be no Karma.

Now why in the blue hell would Oculus want it resolved diplomatically? Every single alliance not neutral and not actively supporting Oculus's wars poses a potential threat. Funny how Oculus was whining when DoomHouse and Doom beat down alliances, but somehow when Ocuulus does it its fine. Either something is bad or its not, its not bad if one party does it and good when another party does it. Bunch of hypocrits.

So you want wars on those who supplied Bones with tech. Would you then accept wars against those who supplied your top tier with their thousands of tech too?

There isn't any non Oculus alliance that isn't actively supporting Oculus's current wars leftthat has a decent top tier left.

Only some people got beat down repeatedly. NPO is the only one currently in Oculus that got beat down repeatdly and that was years ago. So get over it. All the things you are complaining about Oculus is currently doing, so its obviously not the acts that made you mad.

The alliances that I have been in have never received reparations while I was a member. I have never gained from reparations since neither I nor any alliance I have ever been in has received reparations. Instead we have had to pay reparations from time to time, and much of those reparations throughout my time here that my alliances have paid came from me personally. Blaming me for what Doom House did when i wasn't in Doom House nor was I a member of any alliance allied to Doomhouse is exactly the historical revisionism I am talking about. And you obviously can't feel that strongly about it since you are allied to the only remaining member of Doomhouse that still exists here, Umbrella. Well, as allied to Umbrella as I was to Doom House during these incidents you are citing. I joined Umbrella after the wars you are whining about, not before.

Except there wasn't a month longer war for NPO's top tier in that war. I wasn't in Umbrella until after the DH-NPO war, I was still in \m/ at the time. TOP C&G war still in \m/ where we had a minimal impact backing up PC. We had no reps given to us. So another swing and a miss for you. I have never received reparations in my entire time here.

We beat people down and gave them white peace after. Anything else is just historical revisionism at its finest.

Citation needed.