Iotupa

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1345327679' post='3023266'] Wrong again. [/quote] While you may not personally engage in OOC attacks, you know as well as I do that this is a blatant lie, potato.

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1345321520' post='3023223'] And I'm saying what we do is not worse than what the old hegemony did. We war, and that is the only similarity between us and the old hegemony. We do none of the other practices that have sense become against the rules for existing in this world or do the things that have tried to force people from the world, or forced people to censor their alliances or face war. We do none of those bad things that the old hegemony did. Hate on us for rolling people, that is a valid reason. Hating on us because we are "worse" than the old heg is incredibly dishonest and a flat out lie. [/quote] Caliph, I noticed you ignored my previous reply to you pointing this out, but surely you are not serious here. The fact that OOC attacks are used to force (or attempt to force) people out of the game rather than e-ZI is WORSE than the former hegemony. You are smarter than this, my friend. Do not let your allegiance blind you to the truth.

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1345269916' post='3023053'] No more perma ZI, no more external ZI, no more expelling nations from the face of the earth here for !@#$% and giggles, no more outright curbstomping from all the sanctioned alliances on a few. [/quote] Expelling (or attempting to expel) nations by means of attacking their leaders with things from outside this world is worse than e-ZI. I say this from the point of view of someone that fought e-ZI for years, both on the lists and off.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1344965817' post='3021909'] We both know full well that JB isn't capable of 'good political discourse'. Regardless, enjoy yourself. [/quote] Aww, poor Goldilocks, still all torn up over a single line of text from years ago. The fact of the matter is that what I said is right, no matter how much you attempt to continue your odd vendetta against me (though I am proud you did not accuse me of being the architect of the Emerald Affairs again, that's definitely progress for you). What VE did by cancelling the GOD treaty and snuggling further up to those in power is only similar to Voxian ideals in that you are actually being honest with your intentions at this point. Other than that tiny bit, it has zero similarities. Also GOONS

[quote name='Joe Stupid' timestamp='1344913725' post='3021766'] And none of you have done any god damn thing of note since then. Thanks for bringing our attention to this yet again. [/quote] I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, because one of your allies has a Vox founder in government, as well as two of their good allies having Vox founders in government...

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1344901935' post='3021706'] No, you are attempting to detract from his message with your out of date vendetta with VE. [/quote] What? Also, Schatt, we can continue this conversation elsewhere. I will leave this announcement for remembering Vox Populi; discussions on contemporary implementation on Vox ideals can be had via other means of communication.

[quote name='Jacques Cousteau' timestamp='1344900492' post='3021699'] Fun times. Everyone had a purpose or a roll. [/quote] A lot of us even had a re-roll.

[quote name='Nintenderek' timestamp='1344893652' post='3021662'] Ah, a very good read. No nation ruler on Bob can truly know freedom until put into the situation Vox was in. And great things we did with that freedom. I can honestly say I've never had quite as much fun in CN as I did in Vox. It was a great and fun alliance and while I'm glad nothing like Vox Populi is currently needed, I do have to admit I greatly miss the alliance. While I do somewhat agree with what you are saying, this is not the time nor place. This is a topic of remembrance of a great alliance that stood true to it's ideals, not a topic of political hodgepodge. [/quote] All I am saying is that it detracts from his attempted message here.

Your praise for the actions of VE sours the taste of your entire message. What VE has done is contrary to the very nature of what Vox Populi fought for, so it seems counter-intuitive to offer praise as you call for a resurgence of Vox Populi ideals.

Did anyone NOT see this coming?

Unfortunate to see.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1342942402' post='3013193'] [url="http://www.cybernations.net/aid_information.asp?Nation_ID=205718http://"]Excellent counter-point. I think you miss how it intersects with common thought though. Maybe you should ponder that and come up with a good mode of operation.[/url] More hilarious though, is that you weren't even following orders when you ran and hid, since you are a sub 75K nation. But it's okay, you can find your Bal's after the war. [url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?search=342253&Extended=1"]Glad you could help out your lower tiers that we are nuking into oblivion.[/url] [/quote] Your ability to understand what is actually meant by a post is pretty abysmal.

[quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1342850572' post='3012874'] FAN was a great alliance, tons of fun to fight with and against, up until their former allies turned on them and they got ground into dust and got stuck in peace mode for years. They're not as fun anymore. There is no fun to be had with zombie alliances. [/quote] Aren't you allied to VE, an actual zombie alliance? FAN is still the same alliance, they never disbanded.

Good stuff.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1342761445' post='3012488'] It's a reality bro. I'm finding myself realizing that we are going to have to get creative with surrender terms to counter-balance SF/XX's multi-war mass-usage of peace mode. I might as well just come out and say what's really happening - they aren't defending their allies. Next time I'm in a losing war you can be sure I won't cower in peace mode as I prefer VE's philosophy then Sparta's. Post-war, who do you think will have more respect? Sparta has firmly labeled itself an infra hugging alliance and that distinction won't go away for years and years. [/quote] "Years and years..." That's a good one.

[quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1342661859' post='3011907'] One could calculate the cost of PM and the happiness hit for income against an estimated time "in war" (aka in PM while others fight a war) versus the, say for a 15k nation bounced down to ZI, $2billion to rebuy fully the infrastructure lost. For an individual nation hiding in PM, yes, it's likely quite a long time that you can last before it becomes unprofitable to avoid war. This, I presume, is part of the rationale and why I can spy some decent warchests in Sparta, for example. But that's an individual calculation. For the alliance as a whole, you then must weigh the cost to all your little guys, whom are far more affected by the war or even by PM stints. You must consider the loss of morale and mass deletions and defections. You must consider the political ramifications. You must consider that enemies will still consider you having gone "unpunished." And you must consider that as part of your peace agreements, it is very likely your top tier will have to fight, and get ZI'd (or nearly so), anyway. So all you've really done is cost them another $1 billion or so. And, if you selectively send nations to fight from your top tier, you then isolate yourself into many more tiers that can't support one another in a future war. VE has shown how a war can be both very costly and very cheap at the same time. They got crushed, in a very short amount of time, satisfying the blood lust from past and present enemies. They diverted attention from their allies, and thus did some good on the whole. Yet because they have not been in war for a long drawn out period of time, their warchests can, in some sense, repair the damage superficially, yet by the time the rest of their coalition comes out of PM and ends the war, they'll have earned back the lost income and strength and, in my estimation, passed all of those other alliances. [/quote] I still find it humorous the claims that if SF/XX had not used peace mode they would have been given the same sweetheart deal as VE are still floating around. No one actually believes this, so it is pointless to keep forwarding it as an attempt at a legitimate response.

They surrendered to what basically amounts to a group of rogues?

Congratulations!

[quote name='jerdge' timestamp='1342516558' post='3011122'] People consider PF and DR to be the most credible rivals of DH for the next months. With that in mind I have just checked some in-game stats, and (unless I did something wrong) Umbrella alone can field basically as many 10k+ tech nations as PF and DR [i]combined[/i]. Unless some major split happens I don't see Umbrella's stats being much challenged in the next future. This can also be considered a success, though, if safety is what they had in mind. [/quote] Exactly. If you did your work correctly, and I have no reason to doubt that you did, this proves my point that Umbrella is forcing themselves to be unable to play the game at all outside of building more stats in the future.

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1342462229' post='3010781'] "MK's buddy VE" xfd are you for real [/quote] Yo, you might want to check your glasses, bro, because I never said those words together anywhere in my post. You missed a couple of important words in that particular phrase. EDIT: In response to the "leaving upper tiers in peace mode the entire war leaves the opposing side without a way to play the game," I pose this question: how will they play the game when the upper tiers of all other alliances are completely gone and have, given the way the mechanics of the game work, essentially zero chance of ever reaching that size again? At that point, alliances like Umbrella (and as far as I am aware, they're the only alliance with such a drastic case) will have nothing to do but gain more stats, leaving their DoWs as nothing more than simple political tools, since they will effectively be unable to actually war at all. This is made even worse by the fact that their lower tier, the only tier actually in range of any other alliances, is apparently consistently left in peace mode for wars, as that is the only way to protect them without more nations in that range.

[quote name='Neo Uruk' timestamp='1342416771' post='3010682'] CSN is at the table right now. It's not our fault Liz won't provide an acceptable apology [/quote] If the apology is for the thing I imagine it's for, rather than for what the war was over, that would be interesting. I don't see her apologizing for that, honestly. EDIT: I've also been told that offer was rescinded, as it was a "joke."

Anyone saying that if people weren't in peace mode that the war would be over needs to reevaluate their viewpoint, because it's clear MK and co. have no intentions of letting anyone but their buddy VE and NPO's buddy NATO out with such sweetheart deals. EDIT: I'd love to be proved wrong here. I just don't see it happening. EDIT EDIT: Clarification and grammar.

The biggest thing I don't understand at this point is that people are saying VE was really far from the center of the fight. They were one treaty from the center, as their direct ally GOD was one of the two main targets of this war. Attempting to say otherwise is just ignorant.

The fact that Azaghul assumes so much about our intentions and about our seemingly unstoppable influence over Sparta is kind of humorous.

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1342102443' post='3009148'] You have 16 posts in a thread about VE, I don't think obsessed is an adjective you should be describing anyone else with. Yes, we pretended to give NPO and its allies hell and lost half of our NS. You know nothing about what our allies did or did not tell us was OK. When you criticize one group and don't criticize another for similar 'offenses', that is hypocrisy. When you say "from what I can tell" it becomes a synonym for "I know nothing". Our treaty and alliance policy specifies we defend GOD should they come under direct attack, we chose to honor the treaty when we were under no obligation to do so. [/quote] I actually do know what your allies told you, for that matter, but you can continue to lie to everyone all you like. You were asked to not attack NPO and to attack another alliance. As far as the surrender goes, I stand correct in that they told you that you could surrender, but hoped you would make the right call and continue defending them based on the treaty. As far as the number of posts in here, I can hardly help that I'm being forced to repeat the same facts over and over because people can't seem to read them the first time. Also, once again, talking about Sparta would be off-topic. It has no place in a thread about the alliances of ZombVE and the "Lightbringers."