Alterego Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=83752 [quote]We’ve been talking peace for well over a month now. Despite a rocky start and quite a few bumps along the way, [b]I’m pleased we can finally end this war and put this all behind us (even if only partially on some fronts).[/b] Whereas I can respect Grämlins’ resolve in pursuing peace on their terms, and IRON and DAWN’s resolve in not acquiescing to what they see as unreasonable terms, I’d nonetheless encourage you both to (continue to) work towards an amicable resolution to what remains of this conflict. Best of luck to all involved parties from here. [/quote] Most alliances on the losing side of the war agreed to remain neutral until the war ended. Now that Gramlins have decided to continue the war against IRON pretty much forever does this mean that the terms could in theory be eternal? If so, how long will the alliances who accepted the surrenders keep the dozens of alliances under these potentially eternal terms before clarifying their position (bolded above), amending the terms or announcing the war is officially over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Gremlins are not going to be able to enforce anything because IRON is destroying them pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='Lennox' date='25 April 2010 - 02:23 AM' timestamp='1272158583' post='2273592'] Gremlins are not going to be able to enforce anything because IRON is destroying them pretty quickly. [/quote] The alliances we surrendered to can attack us for breaking terms if they see the war as ongoing. Its nothing to do with Gramlins and should be addressed by those who accepted the surrenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Yes, the surrender terms with plainly stated time durations are eternal. Great deducing, Sherlock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' date='24 April 2010 - 09:25 PM' timestamp='1272158734' post='2273595'] The alliances we surrendered to can attack us for breaking terms if they see the war as ongoing. Its nothing to do with Gramlins and should be addressed by those who accepted the surrenders. [/quote] My comment was referring to "Now that Gramlins have decided to continue the war against IRON pretty much forever does this mean that the terms could in theory be eternal?" Also, no I don't think terms are eternal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Denial' date='25 April 2010 - 02:26 AM' timestamp='1272158773' post='2273596'] Yes, the surrender terms with plainly stated time durations are eternal. Great deducing, Sherlock. [/quote] Some terms are for the duration of the war. Is it over or are the Gramlins to be used as an excuse to keep them forever? [quote]In addition BAPS, Olympus, Valhalla, Invicta, Avalon, Molon Labe and DOOM agree to [b]remain neutral for the duration of this conflict[/b], .[/quote] Edited April 25, 2010 by Alterego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schad Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Little confused about the intent here: is it to suggest that Supergrievances intend to hold those surrendering in this war to what amounts to eternal neutrality, or to find out whether they have the ability to reenter against Gramlins? As I can't imagine any rational person believing the former, I'll assume it's the latter...and if that's the case, IRON/DAWN are probably best off [i]not[/i] receiving military assistance, given that a) they're quite capably fighting that battle on their terms, and b) receiving assistance would possibly prompt action from the other side, at which point they'd lose the advantage that they currently enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' date='25 April 2010 - 11:59 AM' timestamp='1272158938' post='2273603'] Some terms are for the duration of the war. Is it over or are the Gramlins to be used as an excuse to keep them forever? [/quote] So the surrender term that you are concerned about being 'eternal' is the ability to attack Gremlins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwoody Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Short answer from the desk of my e-lawyer: Terms apply until completed. For example, once TORN pays off its reps, as I have been told our terms are over and we're bound by nothing. Alliances who signed no-reentry clauses are held out by their terms unless released. And yeah, in theory that could be forever, or until those alliances cannot enforce those terms, or until they're fed up and end the terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goldie Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Bigwoody's 3rd line is basically the situation. If you signed with a no re-entry clause, it binds until the conflict is over or if the alliances you surrendered to agree to end the terms. And please, let's not get into a big e-lawyer thing about 'when the conflict is over'. IRON and Gre is still part of the ongoing war and will be interpreted as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 Well, at some point, one has to decide if following the terms they agreed upon are preventing them from fulfilling their other obligations in seeing that their allies not perish. At which point an alliance could negotiate an understanding with the ones they have agreed to terms with as an honorable way out, or failing that, break the terms and accept the consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty345 Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 I guess the neutrality clause would fall under the proverbial e-lawyer case: technically, they have to stay neutral, but no one is going to hold them to it if this IRON-Gramlins thing pulls a VietFAN of sorts (in the eternal war sort of way, not the ZOMG! UNFAIR TREETMANT!!1 way). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted April 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='goldielax25' date='25 April 2010 - 02:42 AM' timestamp='1272159715' post='2273623'] Bigwoody's 3rd line is basically the situation. If you signed with a no re-entry clause, it binds until the conflict is over or if the alliances you surrendered to agree to end the terms. And please, let's not get into a big e-lawyer thing about 'when the conflict is over'. IRON and Gre is still part of the ongoing war and will be interpreted as such. [/quote] Ok, I just wanted to confirm that all the alliances who signed similar surrenders are under eternal terms that include controls on aid and foreign affairs and that you are unwilling to lift them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='goldielax25' date='25 April 2010 - 02:42 AM' timestamp='1272159715' post='2273623'] Bigwoody's 3rd line is basically the situation. If you signed with a no re-entry clause, it binds until the conflict is over or if the alliances you surrendered to agree to end the terms. And please, let's not get into a big e-lawyer thing about 'when the conflict is over'. IRON and Gre is still part of the ongoing war and will be interpreted as such. [/quote] Seeing as Gremlins are unlikely to offer peace any time soon, and IRON are unlikely to accept unconditional terms... Thank you VE for restoring my faith that there are indeed alliances in Bob that will implement "terms of the hegemeony". For a minute I was getting worried that we will all be hugging each other. Oh eternal terms, how I missed thee. Edited April 25, 2010 by silentkiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='Alterego' date='24 April 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1272158517' post='2273591'] Most alliances on the losing side of the war agreed to remain neutral until the war ended. [/quote] Most, yes. No such term is explicitly stipulated in the Easter Sunday Accords of course (just to be clear). [quote name='Alterego' date='24 April 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1272158517' post='2273591'] Now that Gramlins have decided to continue the war against IRON pretty much forever [/quote] OR until IRON/DAWN unconditionally surrenders. Personal opinions of Grämlins' demand aside, and regardless of the fact that it could end up having the same result, Grämlins [i]is[/i] providing an out here. [quote name='Alterego' date='24 April 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1272158517' post='2273591'] does this mean that the terms could in theory be eternal? [/quote] The Easter Sunday Accords - the only agreement referenced and quoted in the OP - is very clear in stipulating a finite maximum allowable time frame for essentially the sole term found within (being the payment of reparations). As Denial eloquently pointed out. [quote name='Alterego' date='24 April 2010 - 09:22 PM' timestamp='1272158517' post='2273591'] If so, how long will the alliances who accepted the surrenders keep the dozens of alliances under these potentially eternal terms before clarifying their position (bolded above), amending the terms or announcing the war is officially over? [/quote] What you quoted and bolded was a personal statement of mine, not policy of or a statement of intent for multiple alliances. I don't see the point or benefit in asking others to clarify a personal statement of mine. I can't speak for agreements that MK wasn't part of, but what few terms are included in the Easter Sunday Accords would be amended only as stipulated. War is officially over once it's over; i.e., once [i]all[/i] parties are at peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush Sykes Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='silentkiller' date='24 April 2010 - 10:20 PM' timestamp='1272162024' post='2273695'] Seeing as Gremlins are unlikely to offer peace any time soon, and IRON are unlikely to accept unconditional terms... Thank you VE for restoring my faith that there are indeed alliances in Bob that will implement "terms of the hegemeony". For a minute I was getting worried that we will all be hugging each other. Oh eternal terms, how I missed thee. [/quote] Dude, I really hope you warmed up before stretching that far. Id hate to see you get a muscle cramp or pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 You know, you people are really grasping at straws. All you have left for ammunition in the tired "you're just as bad as them!" line of argument is to complain about a term that restricts you from re-entering a conflict, which you initiated and lost, to assist an alliance that has more likelihood of being victorious than what they would if you were to re-enter anyway. So, Alterego, how is the alliance-wide EZI going for BAPS that you prophesised, ad nauseam, during the Karma War? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) Also, while I'm here, I'd just like to comment on the latest line of Pacifican signatures. It pleases me to no end to see you all continue to dance to our tune. All it took for you to switch from years of "Mushroom Kingdom is LUE!" was one April Fool's joke and a pip where we've embraced that ridiculous concept as a joke. In turn, you fall over yourselves to immediately and very publicly admit that LUE disbanded, and hence MK cannot be LUE, and in one deft swipe prove beyond a doubt that you have all been talking out of your collective $@! for the past 3 years. Edited April 25, 2010 by Denial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dochartaigh Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='SirWilliam' date='24 April 2010 - 09:29 PM' timestamp='1272162548' post='2273714'] OR until IRON/DAWN unconditionally surrenders. Personal opinions of Grämlins' demand aside, and regardless of the fact that it could end up having the same result, Grämlins [i]is[/i] providing an out here.[/quote] i could have sworn that NPO did the same for FAN but were ridiculed and despised for it later on. just because there is an "out" does not mean it is acceptable or reasonable. thus, by that nature, the "out" in essence does not really exist at all. glad to see that you have no issue whatsoever with vietFAN since NPO did provide an "out" for FAN. Edited April 25, 2010 by Dochartaigh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktarthan Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) I for one think it is downright despicable to instate common terms that through some unforeseen circumstance could end up taking longer than expected! For shame! Edit: speeling. Edited April 25, 2010 by ktarthan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Rush Sykes' date='25 April 2010 - 03:29 AM' timestamp='1272162555' post='2273715'] Dude, I really hope you warmed up before stretching that far. Id hate to see you get a muscle cramp or pull. [/quote] Thank you for confronting the argument I presented. I have come to expect such high quality posts from Athens. Edited April 25, 2010 by silentkiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='Dochartaigh' date='24 April 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1272162971' post='2273723'] just because there is an "out" does not mean it is acceptable or reasonable. [/quote] Never said it was. [quote name='Dochartaigh' date='24 April 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1272162971' post='2273723'] thus, by that nature, the "out" in essence does not really exist at all. [/quote] Finding something unacceptable or unreasonable doesn't will it out of existence. If an out exists, it exists. [quote name='Dochartaigh' date='24 April 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1272162971' post='2273723'] glad to see that you have no issue whatsoever with vietFAN since NPO did provide an "out" for FAN. [/quote] Glad to see you're talking out of your bum and making unparalleled assertions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='Denial' date='25 April 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1272162964' post='2273722'] Also, while I'm here, I'd just like to comment on the latest line of Pacifican signatures. It pleases me to no end to see you all continue to dance to our tune. All it took for you to switch from years of "Mushroom Kingdom is LUE!" was one April Fool's joke and a pip where we've embraced that ridiculous concept as a joke. In turn, you fall over yourselves to immediately and very publicly admit that LUE disbanded, and hence MK cannot be LUE, and in one deft swipe prove beyond a doubt that you have all been talking out of your collective $@! for the past 3 years. [/quote] Cool story bro. [quote]i could have sworn that NPO did the same for FAN but were ridiculed and despised for it later on. just because there is an "out" does not mean it is acceptable or reasonable. thus, by that nature, the "out" in essence does not really exist at all. glad to see that you have no issue whatsoever with vietFAN since NPO did provide an "out" for FAN.[/quote] But NPO can't be trusted, comeon now doch, you should know these things by now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denial Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 [quote name='silentkiller' date='25 April 2010 - 01:14 PM' timestamp='1272163468' post='2273739'] Cool story bro. [/quote] What was that line you used just before? Oh, right... [quote name='silentkiller' date='25 April 2010 - 01:09 PM' timestamp='1272163130' post='2273727'] Thank you for confronting the argument I presented. I have come to expect such high quality posts from Athens. [/quote] Good to see you're holding yourself to your own apparent standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentkiller Posted April 25, 2010 Report Share Posted April 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Denial' date='25 April 2010 - 03:46 AM' timestamp='1272163550' post='2273742'] What was that line you used just before? Oh, right... Good to see you're holding yourself to your own apparent standards [/quote] Because my or my comrades sig is the topic of discussion. Oh wait... You are welcome to make a topic about it if you feel so strongly about it though Edited April 25, 2010 by silentkiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.