On the Athens Affair...

[Atticus]

Announcement from Attica

Attican has recently been pondering the situation involving Athens, Federation of Buccaneers, and The Knights of Ni!, where members of Athens and FoB declared war on 40 Ni! nations. Many of the critics of Athens claim the war is unjust, based on what is something Attica would love an answer to, and that this was clearly not a raid, but a full on war. We at Attica fully disagree with these sentiments and would like to take this opportunity to perhaps open your mind to questioning your position.

Alliances should not have to seek permission or acceptance from whatever the mood of the masses are and their defitions of what is moral action. Freedom must be restored to the Cyberverse and it is alliances such as Athens and FoB that are on the frontlines fighting to restore it.

Athens has a right as a sovereign entity to do whatever it feels like, bearing the consequences of course. The declare war button was established in the game for a reason and if some players want to put emphasis on that aspect of the game, you shouldn't say its immoral just because its not how you play.

Of course, us folks at Attica would argue these points further to point out that imposition of your morality on others is foolish. Universal morality truths, whatever they may be, do not exist and we shall do everything in our power to stop people from claiming them as a source of power.

To demonization of war is a truley frightening movement and the consequences are starting to be felt. We have Athens in our hearts and any alliance that launches attacks on her will surely meet our blade.

That is all.

[Iosif]

One more topic on "the Athens Affairs" and I'm really going to go places and kill kittens.

[wickedj]

Someone else PLEASE do something so we can stop talking about this. its a matter between Athens and KoN

[Vilien]

A Statement from the Moralist Front: We're tired of stupid threads popping up. The Moralist Front hereby declares war on Attica.

[SirWilliam]

Someone else PLEASE do something so we can stop talking about this.

I tried, by bringing up the MK-ODN Tech Race yesterday, but it got buried rather quickly.

[Style #386]

You make a lot of announcements. I hope Vilien swings by shortly to declare war on you.

Edit: $%&@, four minutes, and I'm already late.

I tried, by bringing up the MK-ODN Tech Race yesterday, but it got buried rather quickly.

Shamed by your lack of victory, no doubt.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Style #386

[Senekis]

A Statement from the Moralist Front: We're tired of stupid threads popping up. The Moralist Front hereby declares war on Attica.

So you only declare war to people who start "stupid" threads when they're in a 1 man alliance?

Couldn't expect less.

[Sal Paradise]

Athens has a right as a sovereign entity to do whatever it feels like, bearing the consequences of course.

I love it when someone uses sovereignty to justify violations of sovereignty.

[President Obama]

I am looking forward to a time when there are more Atticus related threads on the first page than Athens related threads.

[Atticus]

A Statement from the Moralist Front: We're tired of stupid threads popping up. The Moralist Front hereby declares war on Attica.

Starting to crack, eh?

Attica rides on!

[Vilien]

So you only declare war to people who start "stupid" threads when they're in a 1 man alliance?

Couldn't expect less.

Get out. Seriously.

[Bob]

Bring it. I support the Moralist Front against the Atticus scum :v

[Atticus]

I love it when someone uses sovereignty to justify violations of sovereignty.

I see no violations here.

Nations must be willing to bear the consequences of attack, it is a part of the game. Even then, admin has blessed us with peace mode.

Don't click 'War is an option' if all you are going to do is moan when somebody acts upon that option.

[Banksy]

I'm down with this.

[bzelger]

I reject your empty moral relativism and your sophistry.

If we must discuss this in the vacuous context of your "philosophy," you must realize that it is the self-interest of most nations to promote social norms. The perpetuation of the stigma against raiding alliances is a protection, both present and future for alliances that may find themselves in a weak position.

This is not a demonisation of war, as you so shallowly cast it, but rather the construction of a political society. It is in everyone's interests and good for the politics overall that we be self-policing, and admonition against petty thuggery is about the most basic form of this we can do (and we're pretty lousy at it at that).

I see Londo's complaints that people are too afraid to fight and that wars these days end up being curbstomps, brutal beatings, and end in extortion. I completely agree with those complaints and very much like many recent movements away from that, and would like to see more of it. Finding a random, uninvolved, defenseless party and punching in his teeth and taking his wallet does not do anything to ameliorate this problem.

War should be more frequent and less brutal, but it should still have just cause and should still be politically driven.

[Sal Paradise]

I see no violations here.

You've already demonstrated that you don't understand the concept of sovereignty. You didn't have to remind us again.

[Xiphosis]

You tell 'em, Atticus, lulz.

[Biff Webster]

Who not? has become Thou not?

[Tromp]

I like you.

[Rebel Virginia]

Athens has a right as a sovereign entity to do whatever it feels like, bearing the consequences of course.

Except you seem to be ignoring the fact that certain alliances see it fit to protect Athens from the consequences.

[rsoxbronco1]

I was going to make a philosophical post but I'd rather just say that moral relativism is an incredibly foolish school of thought.

[Mathias]

So you only declare war to people who start "stupid" threads when they're in a 1 man alliance?

Couldn't expect less.

I assume you haven't read the other threads.

[Senekis]

I assume you haven't read the other threads.

You mean the other 3 or 4 where he has declared war to that Attica alliance?

I did.

[Homura]

Seriously, did you have to make a separate announcement for your one nation "alliance"? I don't even think that what Athens did was wrong, it was just contrary to established precedent and which I don't agree with, and I'm not changing my position because the leader of some 200 NS micronation thinks otherwise.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Katsumi

[Hyperbad]

I love it when someone uses sovereignty to justify violations of sovereignty.

Not to mention arguing against the imposition of ones morality on another when the very topic could be said to be the same depending upon the Knights perspective of raiding. I know them not so I may be wrong but the larger, more generalized OP certainly has me chuckling for this reason.