Final Poll on new RP tech

[LeVentNoir]

Here we go, Rp tech poll, with poll options for the largest complaints.

Background

Before any scientific experiment or anything like that, background information must be given. In real life, people aren't at certain tech levels, like at '89 tech or '74 tech. Technology levels are divided, in RL, into three distinct terms: First World, Modern, and Third World.

In RL, First world nations are constantly developing new technologies and inventing stuff. Modern buys technology from First world nations and produces it in their own nation and are able to maintain it. Third World nations get the scraps from other nation and have to steal or get given old technology and are barely able to maintain it.

So, how does this translate into CNRP?

Previously, we had a Log Based tech system. It helped lower nations get more modern tech, starting at about level 300 tech. However, at tech year 2005, people stoped using real tech and started inventing their own. Everything below that was pretty set in stone, and nobody, save for a few nations, created anything.

So, we've simplified the tech year system and made it into something more like the tiers we have explained above. Nobody will be losing any technology, and if anything, people would be increasing in their technological capabilities.

New Tech Scale

First of all, the three tiers.

Third World Nation (0-299 tech)

Your technology level is very low, and are developing your own way in the world. You have cold war technology*, and any tech you recieve from other nations (weapons, aircraft, etc.) is not easily maintained without help. It's much like what buying tech from other nations is now IRL. Grandfather rule: those that have been here longer than 2 months are automatically put in the next category, and if they have been already making stuff regularly (i.e.: Uberstein), they are exempt from the creation rule.

*{1980-90ish}

Modern Nation (300-1499 tech)

Your technology has reached a modern level, and you can build anything military-wise that currently exists*. You can get blueprints to produce stuff from other nations and make and maintain it, but you cannot create anything. Other things, such as hydroponics and non-military stuff you can research and build. Again, people like Uberstein would be exempt from this rule.

*{not in alpha testing, so laser plane and the walking robot buzzing thing is out while the F-35 is in}

First World Nation (1500+ tech)

Inventions start coming from your nation, and you can build anything your heart can imagine*. You're still limited to IG levels of soldiers, tanks, nukes, CMs, etc. Now, beyond this your tech level still matters for your army efficency, but a lot less. Design statistics will matter less as there is an efficiency formula for your armies, courtesy of LVN.

*{To a technological limit of the year 2020, of course, within the rules of what can and cannot exist in CNRP, so no mechs, lasers, or rods from god}

Some background to this. This is a number designed to represent a ratio of effectiveness in a trial, respective to a Modern nation. It is designed to show the relative effectiveness of weapons and systems in a certain task for head to head comparison.

It is your Technological Effectiveness, (TE).

TE = 1+ (IG Tech / 10000 * ( 1+ WRC)) Where WRC (Weapons Research Complex (wonder)) is a logical 1,0 statement of having a IG WRC. (1 = you have one, 0 = you don't)

This is taken almost straight from the game, where it works as the damage multiplier for war attacks. That way, we still maintain design coolness, and tech advantage.

EXAMPLES AND STATEMENTS.

Since Third World and Modern nations do not have extensive self research labs, they then to all be roughly the same effectiveness regardless of the actual advancement of the nation. This is because these two tiers have access to the same group of weapon etc, and are not allowed to create new products, so it makes sense that two nations with the same groups will have the same TE.

Third World nations have a TE of 0.8, and Modern have one of 1. These are deviations from the formula as they emphasize that, yeah, your troops / weapons etc, are quite a bit worse than the standard (for Third World)/ are the standard (for Modern)

IE: 1) Three nations are trying to accomplish a task. One Third World nation, one Modern, one First World (2000 tech), with TE's of 0.8, 1, 1.2 respectively. Since TE represents a measure of relative effectiveness, the Modern Nation will have to put in a 1x effort, as it is the standard. However, the Third World nation only achieves 0.8 of the effect for the same effort, so will have to put in 1.25x the effort of the Modern Nation. Whereas the First World nation achieves 1.2 of the effect for the same effort, so only has to put in 0.83x the effort of the modern nation. This "effort" could be the number of shots needed to kill something, or really anything you can imagine.

2) First World Nation A fights First World Nation B. Nation A has 3000 tech, Nation B has 2000. Hence, nation A has a TE of 1.3, nation B of 1.2. So nation A's troops etc are 1.3/1.2 = 1.08 =8% better than nation B's. This is because TE is measure relative to Modern, so to compare two TE's directly, calculate TEA/TEB to find the Technological Effectiveness of A relative to B

So, in theory, in the case of two people that are rping equally, and both people have some good tactics, and one of them is not just going, "LOL, 100,000 paratroopers on your capital!", this scale will be used, but no more will people say, "I have better tech, you lose." Well, if a First world is invading a third world, the case is different, the tech difference will matter a lot.

Technological Trade.

The old 'tech share' is being scrapped. No longer shall nations have their entire advancement lifted by a few words on a treaty. Now, you can buy weapons / items from more advanced nations. However, this comes with a cost. For Modern and Third World nations, these advanced items will cost more than what your normal domestic ones would. Since economy is gone from CNRP, we have a simple formula to determine what you could have.

It is based on TE. We assume cost is directly proportional to TE. So, when buying a Item, here is how many you can afford.

#Advanced Items =#Buyer Items IG* (Buyer TE / Seller TE)

EXAMPLE

If you can have say, 1000 tanks IG at a TE of 1 (Ie you are a Modern nation) and you buy tanks from a First World nation with a TE of 1.3, you can have 1/1.3 * 1000 tanks = ~770 tanks.

Edited May 22, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[LeVentNoir]

By the way. All of you voting for the last choice really should have your votes ignored as you do not care enough to say why.

[Lavo]

Yes and allow all nations to design things. Granted, a Third World Nation can't design an M16, but it can design it's own spiffy M1 or StG-44 for example.

[Shadowsage]

Yes, but allow Modern Nations to design things. Within reason.

[JEDCJT]

Yes and allow all nations to design things. Granted, a Third World Nation can't design an M16, but it can design it's own spiffy M1 or StG-44 for example.

Yes, but allow Modern Nations to design things. Within reason.

These pretty much summarizes my position -- and option.

[Voodoo Nova]

Said Yes, with allowance for Modern & Third World nations to designing. Just because you are considered Third World, doesn't mean you cannot design technology.

[V The King]

Agreed with Third World/Modern being able to design stuff, so long as they're not as advanced as what First World nations design (so say, maybe set some dates for those e.g. Third World designs stuff from up to '75, Modern designs up to '00)

Also, people's tech are advancing everyday, and it might not be long before almost everyone is first world (actually, I'd wager half of us already are) and the scale needs re-adjustment. Is there any manner to make the barriers progress with either time or overall tech?

[Subtleknifewielder]

Said Yes, with allowance for Modern & Third World nations to designing. Just because you are considered Third World, doesn't mean you cannot design technology.

I tend to agree. if you're a smart third world nation, you'll try to reverse-engineer something given you by a higher-tech nation.

[Sumeragi]

Yes, with other tiers allowed to design. My suggestion for limits to designing:

Third World: 1950's

Modern: Gulf War

[LeVentNoir]

Agreed with Third World/Modern being able to design stuff, so long as they're not as advanced as what First World nations design (so say, maybe set some dates for those e.g. Third World designs stuff from up to '75, Modern designs up to '00)

Also, people's tech are advancing everyday, and it might not be long before almost everyone is first world (actually, I'd wager half of us already are) and the scale needs re-adjustment. Is there any manner to make the barriers progress with either time or overall tech?

Actually in terms of actual RL tech dates, Third world is up to 1989, Modern is up to about 2005 ish, and First world is up to 2020. And the great thing is since actual design does not matter, the components used don't matter. Hell, we could count everyone as first world right now, and there would be no difference. This system uses a single linear calculation to determine the effectiveness of your tech relative to modern.

Hell, I could say that my troops have phasors, and if you are at the same tech as me, and your troops use slingshots, they will just as effective.

[Vedran]

Yes, but allow everyone to design things.

Also, LVN, if you believe people picking the last option should have their votes ignored, then why did you add the option in the first place?

[LeVentNoir]

Yes, but allow everyone to design things.

Also, LVN, if you believe people picking the last option should have their votes ignored, then why did you add the option in the first place?

To weed out those who have legit opposition to this idea compared to those too apathetic to post hence, we should be equally apathetic to their opinion.

Edited May 22, 2009 by LeVentNoir

[Bacharth]

I voted for everyone designing everything. Also, LVN, thanks for posting this for me, graduation is hard work.

...

But I may be getting a new car.

Anyway, I'm surprised to see people still on the boat for this. Thanks for your support, heh.

[Firestorm]

yes and allow modern and 3rd world the ability to design

[JerreyRough]

I'm fine with people using this. But for myself, I personally perfer the old tech scale; but even that I don't use much. I'm just sure to not go overboard and not "boost myself up" since I don't use any scales like this.

[Sir Keshav IV]

Vote nnumber 3 for me-Allow everyone to design thingies.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

I said let modern nations design things, but not third world, but everyone can produce things. This is really the way if works in real life. You have several "modern" nations creating things, such as Israel, Poland, Serbia, Indonesia, etc., but when was the last time the Congo came out with a new tank? One thing that we can do is let the 3rd world nations modify and then produce their own weapons. Say Country F gets a shipment of AK-47's from country C, they RP the modification of them (longer barrel, larger clip, new scope, etc), and boom, Country F can now produce their own BK-48's. They didn't invent it themselves, which keeps it more realistic, but they can modify it and are allowed to inject their own creativity into the game (within reason).

[Subtleknifewielder]

I said let modern nations design things, but not third world, but everyone can produce things. This is really the way if works in real life. You have several "modern" nations creating things, such as Israel, Poland, Serbia, Indonesia, etc., but when was the last time the Congo came out with a new tank? One thing that we can do is let the 3rd world nations modify and then produce their own weapons. Say Country F gets a shipment of AK-47's from country C, they RP the modification of them (longer barrel, larger clip, new scope, etc), and boom, Country F can now produce their own BK-48's. They didn't invent it themselves, which keeps it more realistic, but they can modify it and are allowed to inject their own creativity into the game (within reason).

Now that's actually some pretty good reasoning. that's the option I voted for anyway, which makes me doubly-glad.

Edited May 23, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[iamthey]

I think allowing modern tech to design things to a point, with massive high tech projects being limited to first world tech. And perhaps push the first world tech threshold up to 3k to limit it to a reasonable number. Otherwise I like it.

EDIT: Also to play devils advocate the reason a third world nation shouldn't be able to design tech. Being in the third world doesn't just mean having low tech, it means there are a number of socio economic conditions which would inhibit the ability to commit large amounts of funds to the designing of new weapons and technology in general. The reason places like sudan are not coming out with better space shuttle designs isn't just because they lack the previous technological advances its because they have a large poor class, food, and water shortages, poor education, and a plethora of social problems. Simply put they have bigger fish to fry, and have physical infrastructure to invest in before they can really tackle things like a special communications chip. So to say they are just in the 1980's and should be able to design 1980's tech isn't true, it took a massive first world nation like the United States to design the 1980's tech they are RPing.

Moreover, in the modern day the "third world" doesn't re-invent 1980's technology they purchase it from stockpile supplies, hence the proliferation of the ak47 due to the fact that it is readily available out of old soviet stockpiles. So it would be silly to say that they are dedicating national resources to developing outdated technology when they could just purchase it from others. If we are RPing in one time period with different technological capabilities then the limiting factor of a third world nation isn't as I said before the fact that it has old tech, but rather than it either can't afford anything better, or doesn't have access to it.

Edited May 24, 2009 by iamthey

[Cody Seb]

I voted for Yes as is. I don't like the other yes options as of course all the modern nations will vote for option 2 and all the third world nations will vote to where they can design their own things. Of course this isn't true, it's just a case of no one willing to limit themselves based on their nation.

I'm a modern nation and I voted for option 1.

[Madame Unicorn]

Good system, easier to understand, and yes. But allowing Third world and Modern to design things would be nice

[Subtleknifewielder]

I voted for Yes as is. I don't like the other yes options as of course all the modern nations will vote for option 2 and all the third world nations will vote to where they can design their own things. Of course this isn't true, it's just a case of no one willing to limit themselves based on their nation.

I'm a modern nation and I voted for option 1.

I'm first-world (or at least my frozen stats are... ) and I voted for option 2.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[LeVentNoir]

Lets give this another day or three, and then make a decision.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Any more opinions, people?

[HHAYD]

I think modern and third world nations can design things, but those designed things are limited by they technology level. For example, you are a third world nation and can design a new jet fighter. However, that jet fighter can not have any technology that modern and first world nations has, such as advanced computer systems, autopilot, lasers, digital radio signal receiver, advanced missile launching systems, and etc.