The Predictable Unpredictable Treaty Name [Insert Here]

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1355207176' post='3062573']
I won't lie and say I read 9 pages of speculation about SF et. al. What I will say is congratulations to IRON, who is friend of my friend. I fought Int in the Dave war, and I swear they represent all that is good about the war system in CN. They had a great attitude and never once was there anger, hostility, nor trolling between the two AAs. Much respect for their style and their ferocity. I think IRON has benefited with the signing of this treaty.

o/INTERNATIONAL
o/IRON
[/quote]

Cheers man, the NPL war was probably the most fun I've had in a war in quite some time. If you can't kick back and laugh it up with someone while you're nuking each other, what can you do?

Edited December 11, 2012 by Ayatollah Bromeini

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1354853507' post='3061334']
U mad?
[/quote]
I really hate it when 12 year old girls hack into CN accounts and make stupid posts. I'll try my best to help find the criminal who did this.

[Salmia]

[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1355208580' post='3062584']
Cheers man, the NPL war was probably the most fun I've had in a war in quite some time. If you can't kick back and laugh it up with someone while you're nuking each other, what can you do?
[/quote]

I'd say they were more laughing at you. Anyone laughs at you. You're the laughing riot of CnG. :3 Okay, insulting my ally in the treaty thread checked off my list. Nothing to see here, let's move on folks.

[Momentum]

[quote name='Salmia' timestamp='1355214648' post='3062603']
I'd say they were more laughing at you. Anyone laughs at you. You're the laughing riot of CnG. :3 Okay, insulting my ally in the treaty thread checked off my list. Nothing to see here, let's move on folks.
[/quote]

That's rude.


[quote name='smurthwaite' timestamp='1355207176' post='3062573']
I won't lie and say I read 9 pages of speculation about SF et. al. What I will say is congratulations to IRON, who is friend of my friend. I fought Int in the Dave war, and I swear they represent all that is good about the war system in CN. They had a great attitude and never once was there anger, hostility, nor trolling between the two AAs. Much respect for their style and their ferocity. I think IRON has benefited with the signing of this treaty.

o/INTERNATIONAL
o/IRON
[/quote]

I got back just in time for that war, enjoyed the NPL fighting a lot. Hopefully I don't get to meet you on the battlefield again, your horde of mini nukers is all in my range really.

[Helbrecht]

[quote name='Momentum' timestamp='1355214953' post='3062604']
I got back just in time for that war, enjoyed the NPL fighting a lot. Hopefully I don't get to meet you on the battlefield again, your horde of mini nukers is all in my range really.
[/quote]

Would the reverse wish not be the better one? I mean, so many playmates to be had? Instead of sitting on some random hill with your parasol shading you and noone to play with.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Helbrecht

[Momentum]

[quote name='Helbrecht' timestamp='1355219621' post='3062611']
Would the reverse wish not be the better one? I mean, so many playmates to be had? Instead of sitting on some random hill with your parasol shading you and noone to play with.
[/quote]

I would rather get my own nuclear waste weapons before getting nuclear fire death rained upon me on a daily basis, but I guess I'm just that kind of guy.

[magicninja]

[quote name='berbers' timestamp='1355186375' post='3062483']


What was it exactly that SF did to you that was so bad you ignored a terrible CB just to take a shot at them?
[/quote]

CSN & GOD decided to get together and hold our ally at war while they extorted their pals. That seeded contempt and it got a lot worse in the soon after. Eventually, the hate grew to the point that we wanted to be in on the beatings regardless of reasons. We are over it. If they want their revenge.....they know where to find all of us.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Ogaden' timestamp='1355189413' post='3062496']
Being anti-SF was the politically expedient path, since both the Mjolnir alliances and Non Grata hated SF, so alliances who didn't have a grudge against SF quickly developed one.
[/quote]

Yep. If you ever said something like "I dunno Xiph isn't so bad" you'd be met with "lol what the $%&@ are you even talking about" from everyone else towing the party line, regardless of whether or not his actions directly affected them. He became a convenient boogeyman who happened to rub the right people the wrong way in the past.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Johnny Apocalypse

[AirMe]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1355195164' post='3062514']
This whole CnG discussion and something that I saw somewhere inspired me to do it:

[img]http://i46.tinypic.com/5my0zn.gif[/img]
[/quote]

Ok. I will admit. I like this one.

[Comrade Craig]

[quote name='Ogaden' timestamp='1355189413' post='3062496']
We did nothing to C&G, but that is largely irrelevant since many in C&G just take the view of "what's good for MK is good for me"
[/quote]

You don't give your own alliance enough credit. I was pretty strong defender/advocate of SF and RIA up until the moment you guys pulled me into private chat on IRC about 120 seconds before you posted your Polar treaty (this is apparently what qualifies as open communication between allies to y'all). To me, that was that culmination of years of disrespect. You treated *us* as a pawn to be manipulated in your hairbrained schemes. You want to talk about alliances only doing what's best for themselves? You live in a glass house, so be careful with those stones.

-Craig

Edited December 11, 2012 by Comrade Craig

[Ogaden]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1355248684' post='3062687']
You don't give your own alliance enough credit. I was pretty strong defender/advocate of SF and RIA up until the moment you guys pulled me into private chat on IRC about 120 seconds before you posted your Polar treaty (this is apparently what qualifies as open communication between allies to y'all). To me, that was that culmination of years of disrespect. You treated *us* as a pawn to be manipulated in your hairbrained schemes. You want to talk about alliances only doing what's best for themselves? You live in a glass house, so be careful with those stones.

-Craig
[/quote]

This is a very inaccurate portrayal of the events as they unfolded. First off, the Polar treaty before Grudge was very last minute, so much so that I actually had 0 warning and found out about it after it was posted, and I was RIA cabinet at the time. The International had more warning than I did. Secondly, it is inaccurate to say that you, Comrade Craig, were ever an advocate for SF or RIA. The entire time you were allied to us, you were working with various other alliances to see us all destroyed, your MDoAP partner, and you, Comrade Craig, were the leading voice in the International along this path. You were vocal in these same circles in saying that we were a useful ally to you, the International, but this did not stop you from plotting our demise.

Secondly, you never had any intention of defending or even vaguely supporting RIA in a war for our very survival, which you describe here as a 'hairbrained scheme', and when we put ourselves on the front line (rather than back 2 or 3 chains) and you couldn't just ignore our treaty anymore due to treaty conflicts, you cancelled it. This is what our treaty meant to you, nothing at all. You had already agreed to never defend us under any circumstances, so when we put you in a situation where we were your only treaty obligation in the war at the time, against Nordreich no less, you cancelled our treaty in order to enjoy watching us burn.

Spin as hard as you like, as much as you like, but the truth is there. You were party to the war that destroyed virtually everything we had, and you have the gall to say that we were bad allies to you.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Ogaden

[Isaac MatthewII]

Interesting to say the least.

[Comrade Craig]

[quote name='Ogaden' timestamp='1355251604' post='3062697']
Spin as hard as you like, as much as you like, but the truth is there. You were party to the war that destroyed virtually everything we had, and you have the gall to say that we were bad allies to you.
[/quote]

You whine when you're losing, and you whine when you're winning. That victim card is [i]versatile![/i]

-Craig

[D34th]

Oh the irony of see someone from The Int accusing someone else of playing the victim.

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1355272436' post='3062775']
Oh the irony of see someone from The Int accusing someone else of playing the victim.
[/quote]

Care to remind me when we ever played the victim?

[Max Power]

[quote name='AmbroseIV' timestamp='1355188973' post='3062494']
They didn't like us because they wanted someone to attack and we (apparently) had the audacity to be unhappy with that and try to do things that would benefit our security 'n make life hard for them. We didn't like them because after doing everything side-by-side in SuperGrievances [i]they[/i] spent 18 months rallying a coalition to try 'n destroy us. It's a matter of perception — they started talking about a boogeyman and everyone started seeing a boogeyman.
[/quote]

Difference is the addition of GATO, whom you addressed there. GATO was never a part of SuperGrievances, and more specifically, GATO fought alongside Synergy against SF in PB-Polar. After the way that front worked out, if I'd been GATO I probably would have wanted a shot at SF too.

[quote name='Ogaden' timestamp='1355189413' post='3062496']
We broke away from DoomHouse after the pre-empt on NPO, but the DT/CSN fiasco meant both the power spheres in the world at the time were anti-SF.
Being anti-SF was the politically expedient path, since both the Mjolnir alliances and Non Grata hated SF, so alliances who didn't have a grudge against SF quickly developed one.

It was relatively easy for us to be isolated, and we were mostly destroyed in the Grudge War.

We did nothing to C&G, but that is largely irrelevant since many in C&G just take the view of "what's good for MK is good for me"
[/quote]
The DT/CSN fiasco also pushed Legacy right into NoR/DT's arms. I talked to them a lot in those days and they'd felt really dicked around. PF and DR weren't high on SF either. SF had made a lot of enemies in early '11 or so. There were also other alliances like Polar and Sparta people wanted who had direct SF treaties, which made everything coalesce. It wasn't so much about political expediency as it was about there being a subset of alliances, unfortunately four of the big ones being directly allied to yours, who had some powerful enemies.

As for "we did nothing to C&G", see what I said about GATO above. It's also no surprise to think, given existing treaty obligations, that Athens/ODN would be more sympathetic to GATO than to SF.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Max Power

[Gingervites]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1355195164' post='3062514']
This whole CnG discussion and something that I saw somewhere inspired me to do it:

[img]http://i46.tinypic.com/5my0zn.gif[/img]
[/quote]This is funny.

I came here to see a crapstorm on CnG, I am not disappointed.

[D34th]

[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1355277070' post='3062855']
Care to remind me when we ever played the victim?
[/quote]

"LSF is trying to use us!"

[Devilyn Caster]

[quote name='Ogaden' timestamp='1355251604' post='3062697']
Secondly, it is inaccurate to say that you, Comrade Craig, were ever an advocate for SF or RIA. The entire time you were allied to us, you were working with various other alliances to see us all destroyed, your MDoAP partner, and you, Comrade Craig, were the leading voice in the International along this path. You were vocal in these same circles in saying that we were a useful ally to you, the International, but this did not stop you from plotting our demise.
[/quote]

This is so wrong I can barely even believe that you believe this. There are 20+ page threads on the CnG forums where INT is defending it's tie to you guys, telling us that you wouldn't do something stupid and that the communication was pretty good. Then the colossal $%&@ up of signing with Polar happened and there really was nothing left to say. You guys did this to yourselves, don't try to spin it and put the blame on someone else.

[ShadowDragon]

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1355248684' post='3062687']


You don't give your own alliance enough credit. I was pretty strong defender/advocate of SF and RIA up until the moment you guys pulled me into private chat on IRC about 120 seconds before you posted your Polar treaty (this is apparently what qualifies as open communication between allies to y'all). To me, that was that culmination of years of disrespect. You treated *us* as a pawn to be manipulated in your hairbrained schemes. You want to talk about alliances only doing what's best for themselves? You live in a glass house, so be careful with those stones.

-Craig
[/quote]

The fact you even came to believe that shows the treaty was untenable in the end. We both subconsciously or consciously had a lack of trust towards each other. Neither of us can be solely put at fault for the collapse of relations as a relationship can not last if neither side trusted each other. Quickly believing we were trying to manipulate you shows that you already had distrust towards us. We never even attempted to manipulate you in anyway. Delta and I somewhat rashly signed the Polar treaty for the sole reason of helping Fark defend Polar. Polar was going to be attacked and Fark had told us they were committed to their defense. Due to our numerous ties and long history with Fark it was inevitable that we would end up beside them in that conflict (though looking back now amusingly enough we ended up doing completely different things despite our intentions). Thus the Polar treaty was originally signed to help us towards that end by giving us an easier way to chain in as its not really our style to launch many offensive or preemptive wars. Int was never brought up during its discussion. Truthfully I never expected you to defend us and would have been surprised if you would have. We knew C&G would be on the opposite side of us and we knew you would fight alongside them. Its doubtful we would have even ever asked you to defend us should the treaty had lasted. We aren't the types especially having been that situation before nor would we have had hard feelings afterwards had we been able to civilly discuss our respective positions. Sadly in the end that was not possible and we went our separate ways. I am sorry if you see things differently but we never had any bad intentions towards you guys at the time.

Anyways in regards to the topic at hand, congrats to our friends in IRON on the treaty.

[D34th]

[quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1355277070' post='3062855']
Care to remind me when we ever played the victim?
[/quote]

I just found another example of your self-victimization in this very thread:

[quote name='Comrade Craig' timestamp='1355248684' post='3062687']
You don't give your own alliance enough credit. I was pretty strong defender/advocate of SF and RIA up until the moment you guys pulled me into private chat on IRC about 120 seconds before you posted your Polar treaty (this is apparently what qualifies as open communication between allies to y'all). To me, that was that culmination of years of disrespect. [b] You treated *us* as a pawn to be manipulated in your hairbrained schemes.[/b] You want to talk about alliances only doing what's best for themselves? You live in a glass house, so be careful with those stones.

-Craig
[/quote]

For The International everything bad/shameful that happens with your alliance is fault of someone else, some alliance is "using you", your leader made promises that he hadn't the power too, someone made you promises they don't intended to fulfill, etc...

[Mogar]

[quote name='Devilyn Caster' timestamp='1355280812' post='3062882']
This is so wrong I can barely even believe that you believe this. There are 20+ page threads on the CnG forums where INT is defending it's tie to you guys, telling us that you wouldn't do something stupid and that the communication was pretty good. Then the colossal $%&@ up of signing with Polar happened and there really was nothing left to say. You guys did this to yourselves, don't try to spin it and put the blame on someone else.
[/quote]
we definitely should have just let Fark burn instead of defend our allies, I guess RIA missed that class on proper friendship.

[King Wally]

[quote name='Momentum' timestamp='1355214953' post='3062604']
I got back just in time for that war, enjoyed the NPL fighting a lot. Hopefully I don't get to meet you on the battlefield again, your horde of mini nukers is all in my range really.
[/quote]

[size=6][b]o/ Mini-Nukers! [/b][/size]

[img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5p8kn3OsI1r2z56io1_400.gif[/img]

Was a lot of fun mate. But yes indeed, I cant see any rush from this side to hit the replay button anytime soon either.

[Wyrmon]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1355272436' post='3062775']
Oh the [b]irony[/b] of see someone from The Int accusing someone else of playing the victim.
[/quote]

You keep using that word. I'm not sure you understand what it means, or at the very least, this usage of the word dilutes it to a point of meaninglessness.

[IYIyTh]

Someone else got it already.

Edited December 12, 2012 by IYIyTh