Martyrdom

[Centurius]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1352071168' post='3048677']
Heat gets turned up and he takes the easy way out.
[/quote]

You keep convincing yourself of that.

[Enamel32]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1352072387' post='3048687']
You keep convincing yourself of that.
[/quote]
I'm just wondering why if you're going to make a contentless post, why post at all? Did you think I wouldn't notice? "I acknownledge reading at least part of your post." [b]??????????????????????????[/b]

W/e man.

[Bob Ilyani]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1352071168' post='3048677']
Heat gets turned up and he takes the easy way out.
[/quote]
He literally just re-iterated something you mentioned in your own post. For posterity, and since you can't seem to understand the concept of paraphrasing, I'll quote you on it!

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1352062440' post='3048574']
I'll be honest, I don't know much about the interactions there.
[/quote]

So, yeah. You have absolutely no understanding of the interactions between TOP and IRON, and even suggesting so is, quite frankly, silly. So save yourself the time and effort that it requires to continue posting in this (now quite derailed) thread, and cease all the speculation. It makes you look silly and gets Vlad's menstruation cycles active. If you refuse to believe any of the "evil MK Toadies" in TOP, feel free to ask IRON. They'll tell you the same.

[Enamel32]

[quote name='Bob Ilyani' timestamp='1352074271' post='3048703']
He literally just re-iterated something you mentioned in your own post. For posterity, and since you can't seem to understand the concept of paraphrasing, I'll quote you on it!



So, yeah. You have absolutely no understanding of the interactions between TOP and IRON, and even suggesting so is, quite frankly, silly. So save yourself the time and effort that it requires to continue posting in this (now quite derailed) thread, and cease all the speculation. It makes you look silly and gets Vlad's menstruation cycles active. If you refuse to believe any of the "evil MK Toadies" in TOP, feel free to ask IRON. They'll tell you the same.
[/quote]

I'm glad you feel that way, but you've got people questioning the validity of some of your actions. I post what I can see from the outside, and you tell me I'm wrong without actually addressing anything I've posted? I didn't really expect a response, but if you want to make a show out of it, go ahead. Again, why post at all if you're not going to say anything?

Edited November 5, 2012 by Enamel32

[Stewie]

[quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1352070932' post='3048676']
A better question is why this thread became about TOP in the first place. I thought this was about MK and NPO
[/quote]

TOP are central to everything... Keep up with the program

[potato]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1352077236' post='3048720']
I'm glad you feel that way, but you've got people questioning the validity of some of your actions. I post what I can see from the outside, and you tell me I'm wrong without actually addressing anything I've posted? I didn't really expect a response, but if you want to make a show out of it, go ahead. Again, why post at all if you're not going to say anything?
[/quote]

If you don't know what you're talking about, why even comment? I'm sure you think it's valuable insight but, by your own admission, you "don't know much". And if someone involved tells you you're wrong, why do you even want to push it further? Face it: you're not as "in the know" or interesting as you think you are.

And, please, don't play dumber than you really are.

Edited November 5, 2012 by potato

[Enamel32]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1352078459' post='3048734']
If you don't know what you're talking about, why even comment? I'm sure you think it's valuable insight but, by your own admission, you "don't know much". And if someone involved tells you you're wrong, why do you even want to push it further? Face it: you're not as "in the know" or interesting as you think you are.

And, please, don't play dumber than you really are.
[/quote]
If I had nothign to say, why post a response? If I had nothing to say, fine! Why even take the time to respond to nonsense? Evading a question is worse than not responding at all.

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1352077602' post='3048724']
TOP are central to everything... Keep up with the program
[/quote]

Debatable. You may want to take a look at gophers stats (in his blog) that he posted at the announcement of the TOP/Umb treaty.

EDIT: [size=2]Oh wait were you being sarcastic? If so ignore this. [/size]

Edited November 5, 2012 by Unknown Smurf

[potato]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1352079218' post='3048745']
If I had nothign to say, why post a response? [/quote]
I don't know: you tell me. You're the one who thought you had something interesting to say, even if it was based on nothing.

[quote]If I had nothing to say, fine! Why even take the time to respond to nonsense? Evading a question is worse than not responding at all.
[/quote]
Because sometimes it's fun to point out inadequacies? Because sometimes it's important to correct misconceptions? Because sometimes it's necessary to point out to someone when and where they are wrong? ... I don't know, I'm not TOP nor IRON. But when you state X and you preface it by "I don't know anything about it but", you're 1. being dense, 2. not bringing much to the conversation, 3. useless or 4. craving for attention. Possibly all four of them at once.

Either way, you stated how you viewed the TOP-IRON relationship and you were told you were wrong. What else do you want? A detailed analysis? You won't be getting it. And you can keep harping on the point, it won't change anything: that's not how the TOP-IRON relationship works.

[Dcrews]

Wow, that was derailed perfectly, whoever does damage control should get a gold star.

*clap

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='potato' timestamp='1352080971' post='3048757']
Because sometimes it's fun to point out inadequacies? Because sometimes it's important to correct misconceptions? Because sometimes it's necessary to point out to someone when and where they are wrong? ...
[/quote]

I can steer you to another thread a couple down, where you argued the opposite so to speak.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1352079218' post='3048745']
If I had nothign to say, why post a response? If I had nothing to say, fine! Why even take the time to respond to nonsense? Evading a question is worse than not responding at all.
[/quote]

Let's try this one on for size then: [i]You[/i] aren't entitled to an explanation for anything from third parties. Instead ask your government. If they know they will probably tell you.

[Commander shepard]

[quote name='Dcrews' timestamp='1352085468' post='3048784']
Wow, that was derailed perfectly, whoever does damage control should get a gold star.

*clap
[/quote]

I wonder if the others were DH members too.

[potato]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' timestamp='1352087959' post='3048799']
I can steer you to another thread a couple down, where you argued the opposite so to speak.
[/quote]

I'm sure you can. But then you'd be lying to yourself and everyone else. And/or spinning what I said so far from what I actually meant that you'd remain wrong no matter what.

Edited November 5, 2012 by potato

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1352060364' post='3048561']
You're one to talk about spin when it's no secret that said cancellation was in no way political and that IRON signed off on our own treaty with Umbrella.
[/quote]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1352062440' post='3048574']
I'll be honest, I don't know much about the interactions there. I don't doubt that IRON signed off on that treaty, but I guess I question if IRON's opinion really mattered at all in the first place. If IRON said, no, we prefer if you didn't sign that treaty. Would things be different today? Maybe you would have waited a couple weeks before you pressured for approval again, but I doubt they'd be able to prevent the treaty from being signed. They may have just said yes to cut through the b.s..
[/quote]

We were aware of the Umbrella treaty and didn't have any principle objections, we didn't "sign off" on the treaty, we don't sign off on the foreign policy objectives of our allies, it's not our job to dictate their agenda. If we are on divergent paths then we will quite simply part when we come to the cross roads. IRON knows where TOP perceives itself to be in the world and vice versa, we're not concerned and neither should anyone else be

[Enamel32]

That's a little different from how Sparta does FA, but I can respect that way of handling things. Thanks for the incite MCRABT.

[Stewie]

That is why I like you guys so much rabby.

[Omniscient1]

Leave it to Vlad to takeover a thread about martyrdom. It fits the bill really.

Also at this point in time there is not an alliance in the game with the ability to marginalize NPO. Any alliance who has NPO in their cross-hairs needs to prepare for a Pyrrhic victory at best, and utter defeat at worst.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Johnny Apocalypse]

Awww, all this foreplay is sweet an' all but would one of you -MK/NPO/TOP; doesn't matter who- just oil up and start knocking the !@#$ out of one another already. The writing's on the wall so you can all stop being so coy, you're not fooling anyone.

[Unknown Smurf]

Despite all this grade A derailment lets look at the facts.

The nation who secretly aided the rogue is STILL in MK. He hasn't been demasked or reprimanded in anyway. MK membership is defending him and is pissed off at their government for letting him be spied upon. Nor has MK sent any aid (reps) to NPO according to the aid screen.

In fact, hes actually currently fighting a rogue/ghost in MK! I will make the assumption that action is orders from govt. That war started after this thread. Not only is MK govt not doing anything to him, they are working with him.

The nation who is going rogue, is ex-MK. He still has his mask to MK forums and posts there regularly. Despite him having gone rogue over a month ago. He most likely got this secret aid by asking for it on MK forums (or iRC).

While MK govt probably didn't go out and say "Hey go aid this rogue" -- they definitely aren't doing anything to stop it, defacto encouraging it, as long as they don't get caught.

[Devilyn Caster]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1352134157' post='3048928']
Despite all this grade A derailment lets look at the facts.

The nation who secretly aided the rogue is STILL in MK. He hasn't been demasked or reprimanded in anyway. MK membership is defending him and is pissed off at their government for letting him be spied upon. Nor has MK sent any aid (reps) to NPO according to the aid screen.

In fact, hes actually currently fighting a rogue/ghost in MK! I will make the assumption that action is orders from govt. That war started after this thread. Not only is MK govt not doing anything to him, they are working with him.

The nation who is going rogue, is ex-MK. He still has his mask to MK forums and posts there regularly. Despite him having gone rogue over a month ago. He most likely got this secret aid by asking for it on MK forums (or iRC).

While MK govt probably didn't go out and say "Hey go aid this rogue" -- they definitely aren't doing anything to stop it, defacto encouraging it, as long as they don't get caught.
[/quote]

Your wild speculation is outdated and frankly annoying. MK and NPO are two of the best alliances in this game and both have great, responsible leadership. Your continued use of "facts" to try and create drama is childish at best. This is nothing more than one member of MK doing something retarded and their leadership handling it. My hats off to IC and brehon, who have been great allies to us (TLR) and have done a superb job keeping us in the loop.

Once again, nothing will come of this. But keep spinning your wheels if it makes you happy!

[Unknown Smurf]

[quote name='Devilyn Caster' timestamp='1352134522' post='3048930']
Your wild speculation is outdated and frankly annoying. MK and NPO are two of the best alliances in this game and both have great, responsible leadership. Your continued use of "facts" to try and create drama is childish at best. This is nothing more than one member of MK doing something retarded and their leadership handling it. My hats off to IC and brehon, who have been great allies to us (TLR) and have done a superb job keeping us in the loop.

Once again, nothing will come of this. But keep spinning your wheels if it makes you happy!
[/quote]

All of the things I said in the post are easily verified in-game or on MK forums.

I did not imply (in that post), nor currently expect, a war to come of this. That does not change what I said in the previous post.

[Crymson]

UnknownSmurf: Just as your thread about accountability actually regarded you simply wanting MK, an alliance you dislike, to suffer a loss, this thread is not about martyrdom but, again, simply about your desire for harm to come to alliance that you dislike. You shouldn't be shocked when people point this out to you (I'm not the first). This is merely yet another in thousands of "I don't like [insert alliance here] because they have done [insert subjectively terrible actions here] and I want them to get rolled" threads that have come and gone over the past six years of this forum community's existence. Your attempts to costume your threads of this sort with cloaks of nobility and due virtue will avail you of nothing.

You dislike MK, and you want to see that alliance come to harm. We all get it. And that's well and good, as conflict is the point of Cybernations. But you should consider methods other than your current, clunky attempts to get others to do your work for you.

Enamel: It's always fun to speculate on the political goings-on of other alliances, but you were correct when you said that you don't know about the goings-on between IRON and TOP. Speculation is, by nature, not always correct, and the available evidence doesn't always present the whole picture. More, you shouldn't expect allies to publicly share about their private interactions.

To everyone who responded defensively to Vlad: our friend Mr. Stukov has a very distinct sense of humor. He is playing with you, and there is no way you could have realized this if you are not sufficiently familiar with him. Sorry for ruining your fun, Vlad!

In regards to this situation: this is something that NPO could take to war---goodness knows there are few enough casus belli made available these days that are even remotely relevant; alliances are generally smart enough to not provide one---but it won't happen. Brehon very well may have taken this to war had he believed he could win, but, in the event, starting a war over this would lose him a lot of support from the start. That's why it's clear that this won't move anywhere. It's much less about what's right or wrong or good or evil---all of these are subjective terms---and much more about what is practical and possible and what is not. That said, the situation itself is hardly uncommon, and the only alliances in recent memory who would be willing to make ludicrous demands are years past being in a position to do so.

[potato]

[quote name='Unknown Smurf' timestamp='1352134157' post='3048928']
Despite all this grade A derailment lets look at the facts.

The nation who secretly aided the rogue is STILL in MK. He hasn't been demasked or reprimanded in anyway. MK membership is defending him and is pissed off at their government for letting him be spied upon. Nor has MK sent any aid (reps) to NPO according to the aid screen.

In fact, hes actually currently fighting a rogue/ghost in MK! I will make the assumption that action is orders from govt. That war started after this thread. Not only is MK govt not doing anything to him, they are working with him.

The nation who is going rogue, is ex-MK. He still has his mask to MK forums and posts there regularly. Despite him having gone rogue over a month ago. He most likely got this secret aid by asking for it on MK forums (or iRC).

While MK govt probably didn't go out and say "Hey go aid this rogue" -- they definitely aren't doing anything to stop it, defacto encouraging it, as long as they don't get caught.
[/quote]

If it's so easy, how did you manage to get it wrong?

[Unknown Smurf]

@Crymson -- Contrary to popular belief, I don't hate MK. I hate the fact that in this realm everything is done behind closed doors (private irc channels) and wish to expose the things that are going on. I told Brehon and IC about what I found out (MK member(s) sending aid) on IRC and I realized that there was zero intention to inform the public of the fact so I went ahead and did it. (Also it was going to leak regardless because the spy op was 'successful but caught').

MK just messes up a lot more than anyone else .. yes, it may be true that I look at them a little closer than I do a lot of other alliances but that is due to the fact that they mess up all the time, not that I have any hatred for them.

@Potato -- where did I say it was easy? And what part of the post you quoted is wrong?

Edited November 5, 2012 by Unknown Smurf