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Policy Regarding Tech Received From Multis

Keelah

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Regarding Tech Received From Multis

The moderation team has been researching, discussing and reviewing the issues surrounding tech received from nations deleted as multis. We have provided the information found during our research to admin. With the approval from admin the following new policy has been established starting today:

Any tech received from a nation that is deleted for a multi will be removed.

We have reviewed such nations from over the past year or more. In some cases, the technology received from multis is considerable. This is unfair to the majority of people who have played by the rules. We may remove that tech. It is possible that we may also go farther back. In any case, we reserve the right to review past offenders and adjust nations as deemed necessary.

This announcement is for information purposes only and not for interpretation. Any responses that are in violation of the forum rules will result in a warn. Speculating and posting accusing others of having multis will result in a full warn, not a verbal. Multi reporting should be done in the correct forum.



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1. You say that the top cheater guy gained 24,5k tech in a year by multies alone. With perfect slot effiency you can get 36x600=21600 tech in a year. If you are right that someone gained 24,5k tech in a year by aid, then you have bigger problems than multies, if not then your calculations are wrong.

The bigger problem is most likely the new senate mechanics, which have allowed some nations to have 7 slots at times.

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The bigger problem is most likely the new senate mechanics, which have allowed some nations to have 7 slots at times.

it's not that big deal, i remember it happens like yearly twice, not to common, so it's 2x3x100=600 extra tech in a year.

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1. You say that the top cheater guy gained 24,5k tech in a year by multies alone. With perfect slot effiency you can get 36x600=21600 tech in a year. If you are right that someone gained 24,5k tech in a year by aid, then you have bigger problems than multies, if not then your calculations are wrong.

I agree with your point but not your logic... You are using 36 because it is 365 per 10 days, but if you start on the 1st of the year, you get 37 cycles of incoming tech (last cycle is only the last 5 days of the year but lyricaz records at the send, not the expiration of aid slot).

- Pink received the +1 slot 3 times this year.

- Using similar logic to the 37 cycles, in a +1 slot event one could get +4 aid offers per event => 400t.*

Still 37 cycles * 600 tech/cycle + 400t/event * 3events

This still would leave the ABSOLUTE maximum at 23,400 tech.

The only explanation of the 25.4k tech number would be if it included other sources of tech. This could be the 720 tech (60tech/$30 donation * 12 donations a year), 100t / referral, raids etc.

* = your refute would be that once the event starts you get that 7th slot, so it'd be impossible for you to get 4 7 slot offers in because your 7th slot started on the 1st day would expire on the 31st, which seems to be sound logic however the way the 7th slot is coded is that it allows for 7 slots total at any given time, so if you have full 6 slots and then get that event, you could hypothetically use your next expiring slot as a 7th slot during the last week of the month.

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3081 tech of 15480 tech received by Cuba in the last year according to Lyricaz is from nations that have been deleted. They could've been deleted for other reasons though.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11Q729TWET6gnOrw0WRfSbq08bZBUViJuYHzZ7Tb6T6k/edit#gid=0

Lyricaz also only has him receiving 15,480 tech for the year, which seems low though. Idk.

Looks to me like the person who said Cuba received illegal tech just made that up.

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Lyricalz does not provide an exhaustive and complete record, only a best effort record, as I understand it, and may indeed miss some activity. Presumably (hopefully!) Sentinel has access to a much more complete and reliable database.

It's understandable that people get heated on the topic but everyone should try to avoid making unsubstantiated allegations against others when you do not know for sure.

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I'm a second generation tech producer in CyberNations. My pappy came here as a boy with his parents, and they settled the fertile tech valleys of the New Pacific Order. We've been working those tech fields for three generations - good, hard, honest labor.

When I first heard of the illegal tech producer problem I was outraged. Who do these nations think they are, coming to our CyberNations and taking away jobs from hardworking, honest Rulers? I was elated when Admin put up fences along the borders to stop illegal tech producers from streaming in - and even more so when Admin and the Mods rounded up those already here and sent them packing.

This is yet another victory for hardworking Rulers such as myself. No longer can illegals undercut our prices and drive the tech market into a downward spiral. I commend Admin and Game Moderation for taking this bold stance to once again restore the CyberNations dream to thousands of our honest tech producers.

Hear hear!

Here's some fun numbers to look at:

The multis deleted in a sample period of one year sent out tech resulting in 364 nations receiving more than 1,000 tech each from those multis alone.

In the same time period of that aid being sent, there were 116,644 nations total that received aid.

The top 10 nations who received tech from that sample group of multis, received a combined 144,401 multi tech. The #1 having received 24,501 tech from multis.

Oh geeze...that's insane!

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Sorry for a double-post. Anyway, This sounds great in theory. Can't wait to see how effective it is in practice. This just makes me all the more glad my alliance's policy is to encourage tech trade within the alliance.

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I am kind of laughing at the suggestion that the staff uses lyricalz rather than, you know, their own access system to the actual game.

Which apparently doesn't save old data ( or it didn't for a long while ). If I understood things properly, when things are 'deleted' they are actually deleted, and not flagged as hidden or archived. Without the data dumps none of the old data can be recreated.

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Presumably the game is backed up to tape or to some other media and it would therefore require some effort to reconstruct an accurate record of all aid transactions, but it would by no means be impossible.

As for Lyricalz, I've never noticed any errors in its records of aid transactions. If someone has confirmed an instance where it failed I'd like to see it.

Here's a point to ponder...if you receive a tech bonus for a nation referral, and that nation later is deleted as a multi, shouldn't the tech also go away?

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I have a few questions about this new initiative. The idea seems good to me, less multies make a better game, but i have a some concerns.

1. You say that the top cheater guy gained 24,5k tech in a year by multies alone. With perfect slot effiency you can get 36x600=21600 tech in a year. If you are right that someone gained 24,5k tech in a year by aid, then you have bigger problems than multies, if not then your calculations are wrong.

2. Do you investigate nations who were banned previously or do you look for all active nations who seems to be on free tech?

3. What about nations, who proved to be multies, but seemed to be tech dealing at usual selling rate in the past?

4. How many nations are involved? You seem to have a few usual suspects (given my tech, i guess it includes me), but today basically every bigger (and a lot of upcoming) nation is receiving a lot free tech. Do you have enough resources to really investigate every suspicious nation or just some nations that seemed to hated by part of the community?

5. How do you figure out aid date for previous years and deleted nations? Do you use external (and might be not so reliable, due to alliance bias) databases like lyricalz?

6. How do you make a difference about alliance tech programs and multi rings? Today most alliance is pumping top nations tech, while multiple nations are allowed in the same network, how can you figure out who's a multi and who's not?

You are over thinking the whole policy.

Definitions:

multi = a multi is a nation that is controlled by a player who also controls another nation, violating the terms of service of only one nation to one player.

Any nation that is found to be a multi has been and will continue to be deleted by in-game moderation. Any tech that was sent out by that nation will be reversed by in-game moderation.

There is no determination to assess if the tech was paid for or not. Basically, it's a buyer beware...know your tech sellers. Any attempt to determine if multi tech was 'paid' for or not will favor some alliances over others. All alliances tech deal in different ways, and the most fair way to remove multi tech is to remove all of it. The data of the game will be reviewed to determine who were the recipients of a multi's tech and the amounts.

The sample data posted for players viewing is not of tech sent in a year, it is tech sent by the multis that were deleted in a period of a year.

As a reminder, even speculating nation names who might or might not be a recipient of bad tech is in itself warnable.

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Since this announcement was made there has been a lot of pressure from the community for moderation action/inaction to be taken on this one way or the other. My instruction to the mod team was over my concern with mass back-deleteing tech when there may exist a grey area between each and every transaction (did the receiver knowingly receive tech from a cheater or did they have no idea whatsoever). So my instruction to the mod team was to look at this on a case by case basis. To that, don't expect to see any mass updates to large groups of players, and don't hound the mods asking when is action going to be taken. We'll conduct our reviews, and any evidence that you can offer in the moderation reports section is appreciated and will be compiled for the decision making process when reviewing past offenders and adjusting nations as deemed necessary.

In short, we want to get this right and we are going to take whatever time necessary to get there.

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I've spent a lot of time looking over this. As you've seen, there are cases where tech received from multis number in the thousands and at that level it should no longer constitute a grey area, the recipient knew what they were up to. I have been cautious in my approach to this because I dislike such intervention into the game, but damage has been done, and while it is not possible to undo all the damage, those who perpetrated it by receiving tech from multis beyond the grey area mentioned will be held accountable.

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