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Why we haven't 'surrendered'

Lord Hitchcock

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Simple word isn't it? Just say 'uncle' and it can be all over...

Well, there's a reason and it isn't about pride its more about the deep personal feelings we have towards kashmir.

During the m inc TSO war Jack layton actually ghosted into m inc- any m inc member past or present can account that our aa announcements can be fairly vulgar and in kind Jack was happy to join in on them.

So anyway, flash forward to the "kashmir declares on their former Protecterate- for us being 'terrible' micros".

And guess what, it was still IC and we rolled with it. However in the course of the war Layton decided to report messages he "found offensive" which is absolute Bs because after the stuff he posted in our own aa announcements there wasn't anything we could send to "offend" Jack- but he reported it and from admins standpoint there was valid reason to ban our members and they did. We lost two awesome, active members- roochi- who had a really well built, wonder heavy nation and then we lost zombinator who was fun to BS with.

To make matters worse, Jack then messages our members bragging about their deletions and that's when our IC role turned into an OOC F):& you role.

And that's why we won't budge an inch for those pieces of $:&/. Margrave can report all he wants- it's really all he's got left to do sense we've made it our responsibility to kick the !@#$ out of him and layton.

So when they are asking for us to 'to surrender' our response will always be "F/&@ off"



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They don't have to worry about getting hit while you continue to comit yourselves against NS that will be replaced with a single slot of aid. Additionally, you don't get to build past 10k NS or you'll just get knocked right back down again and lose cash all over again.

But yes, you have nothing to lose, so keep this perma war going. They get to keep building for the most part while you're eternally stuck at ankle biter range to never be able to actually do anything.

Meanwhile you keep poking other people trying to goad them either into a fight or to get them to help your opposition.

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Gh0s7 you are simply wrong

We have defeated, bill-locked defeated for real, many of their nations

They only way they have managed to defeat even one of us was through moderation

But you know, even if you were right, even if they were effectively destroying us instead of simply amusing us with their attempts - the answer would still be no These people attack us unprovoked, insult us, tell collosal lies about us, wage an offensive propaganda war against us without shame or conscience. They are the most despicable bunch of idiots I have run across in years, and at this point nuking them is not only personally rewarding, it's a public service, it's just me making the world a little better place because I care.

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There is no propaganda war, it's certain people on your side pissing off entire alliances, and then them and their allies choosing your opposition, and then their allies allies doing the same, and so on. No one supports you because your side has pissed off half the large alliances in the game. There is no conspiracy. There is no plan to ruin your credibility. There is simply your side with it's inability to play the political game in a manner that does not create boat loads of enemies, and when it happens, you guys playing the victim card talking about how you didn't deserve it.

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There is no propaganda war, it's certain people on your side pissing off entire alliances, and then them and their allies choosing your opposition, and then their allies allies doing the same, and so on. No one supports you because your side has pissed off half the large alliances in the game. There is no conspiracy. There is no plan to ruin your credibility. There is simply your side with it's inability to play the political game in a manner that does not create boat loads of enemies, and when it happens, you guys playing the victim card talking about how you didn't deserve it.

well sigrun- let's bag it up and wait for a no CB invicta dogpile- because that's the moral high ground

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well sigrun- let's bag it up and wait for a no CB invicta dogpile- because that's the moral high ground

This is the exactreason you have literally 0 support. Once again you try to pick a fight. How well did that go when you tried to derail our treaty topic?

We don't need a CB to roll you. Nor do we even need to put forth much effort, because your idiocy is so very efficient at biting off more than you can chew.

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This is the exactreason you have literally 0 support. Once again you try to pick a fight. How well did that go when you tried to derail our treaty topic?

We don't need a CB to roll you. Nor do we even need to put forth much effort, because your idiocy is so very efficient at biting off more than you can chew.

You mean the baits that have been coming out for weeks? The idea that DK has to come in and clean up the war margrave started and refuses to partake in? Save your high horse "we don't need a cb" for the SNXs who care about the pixels.

DK was coming in regardless- don't act all flabbergasted that we don't bow to you

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1.) Margave was literally the one trying to get you peace after you screwed up and hit TSO because you didn't get what you want.

2.) That is not a high horse. You don't have a high horse by doing something immoral. That is literally the complete opposite of what the term actually means.

3.) We were not coming in, nor do we neccessarily plan to. With that having been said, the fact that you admitted to trying to bait DK in shows your sheer level of stupidity. You want to be a victim, and you want to be a martyr. You willfully admitted to acting idiotically in order to get an additional alliance to fight you. So again, you have no moral high ground to cling to.

The difference between us is I don't try and act as if I have the moral highground. I do what I do, morality be damned. You on the other hand, can't make up your mind how the hell you want to act.

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It's like y'all want to be in high school all over again. The clique !@#$%^&* and the 'we don't need a reason, you are not popular so you have no rights' crap that I escaped so long ago.

Don't expect me to play along, don't expect me to dignify it. I'm playing a better game than that and I would urge you to do the same

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1.) Margave was literally the one trying to get you peace after you screwed up and hit TSO because you didn't get what you want.

2.) That is not a high horse. You don't have a high horse by doing something immoral. That is literally the complete opposite of what the term actually means.

3.) We were not coming in, nor do we neccessarily plan to. With that having been said, the fact that you admitted to trying to bait DK in shows your sheer level of stupidity. You want to be a victim, and you want to be a martyr. You willfully admitted to acting idiotically in order to get an additional alliance to fight you. So again, you have no moral high ground to cling to.

The difference between us is I don't try and act as if I have the moral highground. I do what I do, morality be damned. You on the other hand, can't make up your mind how the hell you want to act.

False- methrage ran peacefully- literally in game messaged nations for votes- and it was his admin right to do so.

Flash forward and lady dokota throws a fit because "he can't run because he isn't a BC block member" he gets sanctioned- his AA declared on.

Why? For winning a senator position. He hits lady dokota- and he should have. Margrave wanted him to apologize and he shouldnt have to.

FAN declares a one round war, III percent is talking peace, SRA, Dre4m specifically followed by another member and Killian want to keep him on the ropes- Sierra like DK did with smurf.

We said f that- and hit SRA- kashmir gets pissy- declares on us- so be it. Layton- "one of the guys" that even you've formally fought- reports our members for "language" they get banned. Layton brags about it- in-game messages- we're pissed.

Sir Williams wants reps- but hurt over the log drops, seeing past laytons move on methrages nexus of kings trust to boot his AA. They want "surrender"- they're not getting it.

We offered white peace. We are beat down far enough to hit really low teir nations- the one aid bomb rebuilds you refer to require holding up tech deals- and it will end up getting annoying. Kashmir brings in NSO- no affect, margrave is baiting for DK. Let's not pretend that we are the "bad guys" who should roll over for kashmir to get the 'S' word- it isn't happening

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Margave said that because you decided to do a logdump on our treaty topic. Margave did not bait us, YOU did. Now you have our attention. If you want to do a logdump, make your own damn topic, don't post it in a treaty thread like an ass.

I will admit I know next to nothing about the Dream war and the brown senate vote crap. What I do know is the war prior to that, and I assumed that this was interconnected. If I was wrong, then I'll yield there, but you have done yourself no favors in pissing off multiple alliances for no reason other than your own boredom.

Edit: Grammar

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1.) Margave was literally the one trying to get you peace after you screwed up and hit TSO because you didn't get what you want.

Yeah this is not true at all. Margrave is either completely incompetent or his goal was simply to wash his hands of MInc (I lean towards the latter) and the only thing he did was cause trouble. He purported to negotiate an agreement without actually speaking with most (if any) of the principles, he was completely lost, had the facts of the matter all wrong, I mean I cannot think of anything he could have possibly done to screw that up that he did not actually do. It stank to high heaven of a setup, and the level of incompetence required to do what he did if it was not a setup is frankly not credible even in regards to him.

3.) We were not coming in, nor do we neccessarily plan to. With that having been said, the fact that you admitted to trying to bait DK in shows your sheer level of stupidity. You want to be a victim, and you want to be a martyr. You willfully admitted to acting idiotically in order to get an additional alliance to fight you. So again, you have no moral high ground to cling to.

I apologize for my friends paranoia. I feel we've always had decent relations between our tribes, and I would like that to continue. I believe LH sees your tribe as something a bit more monolithic than it is. It's clear that certain individuals have a particular attitude towards us - I believe he unwisely but understandably is prone to misinterpreting their individual provocations as part of an organized campaign endorsed by your leadership.

The difference between us is I don't try and act as if I have the moral highground. I do what I do, morality be damned. You on the other hand, can't make up your mind how the hell you want to act.

I don't like what you say but I do like the honesty of admitting it. I have no problem with you playing that way, since you are honest about it. What I utterly despise are the hypocrites who have acted immorally towards us at every turn and then propogandize us as aggressors and themselves as saints.

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Back during the TSO-Minc war, Kashmir, and mainly Margave, were the main reasons peace talks happened. Margave was constantly working in the back channels and in our queries to try and make peace happen. Now I look at the war and I see Minc attacking Kashmir, and my initial impression is that you guys took Kashmir for granted.

I am not a government member at this time. What I am, is a fairly irritated member who saw a logdump in our treaty topic that had nothing to do with the war or Hitchcock. Whether he accepts that or not is not my problem, but it is reality.

I can't pretend to know how accurate what you say is, but I root for my friends in Kashmir all the same.

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I root for my friends in Kashmir too. Remember we were all close until recently, and I for one absolutely refuse to let refuse like Margrave ruin real relations with real people over their petty in-game scheming.

MInc is only attacking Kashmir in self-defense after Kashmir stabbed them in the back, weeks ago now. Individual Kashmir nations, some of them lead by very decent, honorable leaders who bear no guilt here, are the primary victims of Margraves treachery

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Not surprisingly, Hitchcock is lying again.

So anyway, flash forward to the "kashmir declares on their former Protecterate- for us being 'terrible' micros".

Nobody ever said this. It was because they declared on SRA when we told them not to. And when we got them white peace, they violated that again. They also called the Kashmiri aiding them "morons". They said that we're a bunch of do-nothings who sit on the sidelines. This as we were giving them military, financial, and diplomatic aid to clean up their mess of Biblical proportions for the 50th time in a row. They know that full well and clearly want to avoid bringing light to it. They were angry that Kashmir didn't mobilize its military to fight a large coalition of alliances who we had no quarrel with and some of which were our own allies. We put our necks on the line by supporting them in this fight, me more than anyone else. I even resigned from my government position in Kashmir to help them.

And guess what, it was still IC and we rolled with it. However in the course of the war Layton decided to report messages he "found offensive" which is absolute Bs because after the stuff he posted in our own aa announcements there wasn't anything we could send to "offend" Jack- but he reported it and from admins standpoint there was valid reason to ban our members and they did. We lost two awesome, active members- roochi- who had a really well built, wonder heavy nation and then we lost zombinator who was fun to BS with.

It's one thing when among friends and your own (or a friendly) AA that you say some vulgar things in jest to each other. It's quite another when one of those messages instructed me and several others to "die in a housefire" and the other tried to pose as an in-game war message (which is expressly forbidden). Did I report those messages? You bet I did. And for both of those nations, it was their first warns. Both nations made the mistake of pulling the same BS with multiple other nations who also reported them after the fact, likely not knowing how many times they'd already been reported. They were deleted because of their own stupidity, not because of any malevolence on my part. They didn't need to send those messages to multiple people. They made that mistake and they paid the price. If they had been intelligent enough to send those messages just to me, they'd have had one warn each and still been here today.

To make matters worse, Jack then messages our members bragging about their deletions and that's when our IC role turned into an OOC F):& you role.

I take great pride in my environmentalism and helping to rid the world of trash. I like to spread a Green message.

And that's why we won't budge an inch for those pieces of $:&/. Margrave can report all he wants- it's really all he's got left to do sense we've made it our responsibility to kick the !@#$ out of him and layton.
So when they are asking for us to 'to surrender' our response will always be "F/&@ off"

Not working well for them, don't you think? Hitchcock has reached 9NS and they've all been sanctioned on most colours with more to come. Their alliance went from over 1 million NS to less than 30,000NS in a matter of a month or two. They're fighting several large alliances who are supported by even bigger alliances. All of whom are tired of MInc's crap. If they think that either me or Margrave are hurting in this, maybe Hitchcock needs to lay off the free drugs he tried to bribe Margrave with in exchange for peace on IRC. Hey, does that violate the TOS?

As for the ridiculous point of not defeating anyone without using moderation. How many nations were in MInc the day before Kashmir declared war? How many are in there now? All of these guys have run their mouths too much and for too long and now there is a lineup of alliances who want a piece. It just so happens that we're at the front of the buffet. Whether they surrender or not is of no consequence to me. They'll still be a crater the next day and every day after that.

You can delude yourself with your own BS, Hitchcock, but not anyone else.

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Not surprisingly, Hitchcock is lying again.

So anyway, flash forward to the "kashmir declares on their former Protecterate- for us being 'terrible' micros".[/size]

Nobody ever said this. It was because they declared on SRA when we told them not to. And when we got them white peace, they violated that again. They also called the Kashmiri aiding them "morons". They said that we're a bunch of do-nothings who sit on the sidelines. This as we were giving them military, financial, and diplomatic aid to clean up their mess of Biblical proportions for the 50th time in a row. They know that full well and clearly want to avoid bringing light to it. They were angry that Kashmir didn't mobilize its military to fight a large coalition of alliances who we had no quarrel with and some of which were our own allies. We put our necks on the line by supporting them in this fight, me more than anyone else. I even resigned from my government position in Kashmir to help them.And guess what, it was still IC and we rolled with it. However in the course of the war Layton decided to report messages he "found offensive" which is absolute Bs because after the stuff he posted in our own aa announcements there wasn't anything we could send to "offend" Jack- but he reported it and from admins standpoint there was valid reason to ban our members and they did. We lost two awesome, active members- roochi- who had a really well built, wonder heavy nation and then we lost zombinator who was fun to BS with.[/size]

It's one thing when among friends and your own (or a friendly) AA that you say some vulgar things in jest to each other. It's quite another when one of those messages instructed me and several others to "die in a housefire" and the other tried to pose as an in-game war message (which is expressly forbidden). Did I report those messages? You bet I did. And for both of those nations, it was their first warns. Both nations made the mistake of pulling the same BS with multiple other nations who also reported them after the fact, likely not knowing how many times they'd already been reported. They were deleted because of their own stupidity, not because of any malevolence on my part. They didn't need to send those messages to multiple people. They made that mistake and they paid the price. If they had been intelligent enough to send those messages just to me, they'd have had one warn each and still been here today.To make matters worse, Jack then messages our members bragging about their deletions and that's when our IC role turned into an OOC F):& you role.[/size]

I take great pride in my environmentalism and helping to rid the world of trash. I like to spread a Green message.And that's why we won't budge an inch for those pieces of $:&/. Margrave can report all he wants- it's really all he's got left to do sense we've made it our responsibility to kick the !@#$ out of him and layton.[/size]So when they are asking for us to 'to surrender' our response will always be "F/&@ off"[/size]

Not working well for them, don't you think? Hitchcock has reached 9NS and they've all been sanctioned on most colours with more to come. Their alliance went from over 1 million NS to less than 30,000NS in a matter of a month or two. They're fighting several large alliances who are supported by even bigger alliances. All of whom are tired of MInc's crap. If they think that either me or Margrave are hurting in this, maybe Hitchcock needs to lay off the free drugs he tried to bribe Margrave with in exchange for peace on IRC. Hey, does that violate the TOS?

As for the ridiculous point of not defeating anyone without using moderation. How many nations were in MInc the day before Kashmir declared war? How many are in there now? All of these guys have run their mouths too much and for too long and now there is a lineup of alliances who want a piece. It just so happens that we're at the front of the buffet. Whether they surrender or not is of no consequence to me. They'll still be a crater the next day and every day after that.

You can delude yourself with your own BS, Hitchcock, but not anyone else.

I'll let some of your high ground rants slide:

2 you are dead wrong about:

1) you messaged me personally- specifically to hit SRA- you were the 'middle man' so you claim

2) bribing margrave with drugs- that's the most ):!/'k up thing I've ever seen slung- and per Margrave's and I's conversation- whether he comments on this or not, I know that conversation front-and-back, inside-and-out and I will keep it between margrave and I

And per your own admittance and blatant d bag moves- it's a crystal clear reason for why we aren't giving into or even considering your demands, now, or ever.

Thank you for admitting the topic's accusations

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You mean the baits that have been coming out for weeks? The idea that DK has to come in and clean up the war margrave started and refuses to partake in? Save your high horse "we don't need a cb" for the SNXs who care about the pixels.

DK was coming in regardless- don't act all flabbergasted that we don't bow to you

Actually, we had planned specifically to avoid this war. You all have made it very clear that in your own minds the word "surrender" is equal to defeat and the words "white peace" are equal to victory and that there is no room whatsoever for reason in this matter. That is exactly the type of cluster$%&@ I want Doom Kingdom to avoid.

However, YOU went and posted this:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/127194-a-report-from-under-the-desk/?p=3400446

for some reason of which I am not aware. I'm sorry Lord Hitchcock but a log dump is a very traditional casus belli and in this case Doom Kingdom has decided to "do something about it." We discussed options and decided to request sanctions in response. Our allies (including Atlas) were very helpful.

This isn't about your "Dream War" - it's in response to your log dump.

Seriously, IF we intended to take an action in support of the Dream War, we would of gotten involved long ago.

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Gh0s7 you are simply wrong

We have defeated, bill-locked defeated for real, many of their nations

They only way they have managed to defeat even one of us was through moderation

But you know, even if you were right, even if they were effectively destroying us instead of simply amusing us with their attempts - the answer would still be no These people attack us unprovoked, insult us, tell collosal lies about us, wage an offensive propaganda war against us without shame or conscience. They are the most despicable bunch of idiots I have run across in years, and at this point nuking them is not only personally rewarding, it's a public service, it's just me making the world a little better place because I care.

Funny, because by doing so, they got rid of 2 nations, who are never going to come back. That in itself seems to be a highly effective war of attrition. As to Roochi, I could not think of a more deserving case (with one possible exception)

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I root for my friends in Kashmir too. Remember we were all close until recently, and I for one absolutely refuse to let refuse like Margrave ruin real relations with real people over their petty in-game scheming.

MInc is only attacking Kashmir in self-defense after Kashmir stabbed them in the back, weeks ago now. Individual Kashmir nations, some of them lead by very decent, honorable leaders who bear no guilt here, are the primary victims of Margraves treachery

I dont feel guilty for fighting this war. I am sure my fellow brothers in arms feel the same way.

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