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Why War means Peace: How NPO is preventing peace talks

The Zigur

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Over the last couple weeks, NSO coalition has raised objections over the fact that Polar coalition desires to achieve total victory. Indeed, NSO coalition was defeated before the war ever began. While the coalition was lead to an overwhelming military victory, several political developments have occured. Pacifica has established themselves as the true power and intelligence behind NSO, and has assumed a leadership role amongst their "coalition." This has extended to hiding behind their meatshields:

NSO has suffered a 60% score reduction, 66% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 1500 tech

NG has suffered a 60% score reduction, 69% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 2500 tech*

TLR has suffered a 50% score reduction, 66% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 1866 tech

NPO has only suffered a 40% score reduction, 50% NS reduction, and average tech per member sits at 2100 tech

*NG began the war with a much higher ave NS and tech, and also lost 40 members such as Franz Ferdinand

NPO has suffered the least of the core NSO aligned alliances. For NPO to be reduced tech-wise to NSO's comparable level, for example, it would need to lose roughly 180,000 more tech; to suffer a comparable score loss as either NSO or NG, it would have to lose ten more points. As one NPO member also noted, much of NPO's actual NS loss was really infra being rebuilt for nuclear warfare, which renders NS loss alone a useless figure.

This has led to an interesting dilemma. Most alliances (besides the obvious ODN) have bled more than their friends in NPO. This is, as Dajobo noted, NPO's usual tactic, employed in the Equilibrium war. With NPO's meatshields taking the damage, it is clear NPO desires a political victory by trying to force Polar coalition to allow a simultaneous surrender before reductions have been completed. This is achieved by leveraging all their direct and indirect allies into continuing the war despite lenient terms being offered and the precedent set by TPF.

So we enter into something of a paradox. Polar coalition cannot allow NPO to go unreduced, and NPO will place pressure on their allies. This leaves the ball in NPO's court. They could chose to:

1. Allow their allies to surrender, and submit to terms when the time is appropriate.

2. Engage their peacemode nations into the war and lose some of that hidden tech.

3. Drag on the war in the hopes Polar tires first.

Obviously, only the first two actually help their allies, while the third benefits NPO and their political machinations. Fortunately, all three options, including the third still works for Polar coalition.

If NSO coalition continues in their obstinacy, this conflict will stretch into the long war. This would have several unique benefits. Aside from AZTEC, there exists three primary power spheres: Polarsphere, Platysphere and Pacifica. The longer this war is waged, the more the coalition will be viewed as a single political entity. The spirit of war will again become engrained into the mentality of the average player, and new players joining the game will be introduced to the energy and vigor of war culture. Especially in the eyes of the new player, war will become the normal state of affairs.

As warfare becomes continuous, it also becomes less dangerous. With both Polarsphere and Platysphere united by war, there is little reason for people to fear: there are already global victors and losers. Indeed, it may be in the interests of the major world powers for war to continue, as the war would indefinitely preserve the new power structure. The war, being continuous, would turn into a peace mode siege in which members of the coalition would come under occasional attack from terrorists, but a new normalcy would set in.

The sooner NPO and their cohorts realize that they cannot win politically, the sooner we can have peace. But should they not, well war really isnt so bad is it?



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So, when someone is rallying the troops and doesn't use coercion, but rather appeals to their honour and camraderie, to stay and fight, this is morally wrong? You know, some people like to have meaningful relations with allies, that go beyond mere practicality.

What, you didn't already know that the answer to this is yes?

Bloody liberals.

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Then again, for a coalition that publicly beats up its own alliances like Valhalla that question their decisions, I guess the concept of allies defending us out of their own free will and being free to make their own decisions at anytime they want might be a bit difficult to understand.

This whole discussion should've stopped after this.

+1

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I'm a little more than just a "grunt" but you keep thinking I'm just that that's fine. I'm explaining to you how the last time these sort of demands were placed on us, Pacifica, in DH/NPO. At the time we had to accept the terms because absolutely no one was supporting us in the war it was us against DH, FAN, and NoR. We actually build our nations to fight those sort of wars because we have regularly found ourselves fighting in major conflicts with people shouting down the ebil NPO whether it's for the way we treated other alliances, or how we choose to play CN (ie our use of banks).

Since DH we've been able to build relationships with other alliances so that we wouldn't be forced into the same position, and yet still at this point your coalition is still trying to force us into a similar position with NPO having actual allies who we've fought alongside and supported, and who we support and go to war alongside in return, as we are doing for NSO in this war.

So now by "besieging" our "meaningful" nations you're going to war us like we warred FAN before Karma? Last time I checked we already paid for in Karma and the reps that followed. Once again a reason why our allies choose to fight alongside us because it's ridiculous, and you're making yourself look more laughable in the process by trying to make an argument that doesn't hold water on your terms.

This war is not about karma. This war is about survival. If action was not taken, do you really think there would have been peace forever after? You had leaders amongst your direct allies talking about how easy it is to manufacture a casus belli.

If Polar and TOP did not act, Pacifica and her aligned regimes would have rebuilt for war completely and struck. The core front of this war is no different than the cold war between the western and eastern hemispheres. On the one side you have first world democracies and stable autocracies, on the other, triumvirs and dictatorships hell bent on revenge.

Inaction is Defeat. "To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." Polar played the strategic game better; they won, you lost. This isn't "grudge match," many of us have more vision than simple revenge. It's time to take personal responsibility for failure and start working towards peace in a mature manner. Decisions have consequences, own up to them.

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I see alot of NPO in here. I was once a Pacifican myself,

You never was, or will be a Pacifican. You are a poser, attention seeker and a strange mildly amusing joke.

Now, feel free do spam us with nonsense, but leave that absurd claim to rest.

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You never was, or will be a Pacifican. You are a poser, attention seeker and a strange mildly amusing joke.

Now, feel free do spam us with nonsense, but leave that absurd claim to rest.

Incorrect. I was an outspoken advocate for and member of Pacifica after MK took power.

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I am aware you were once a member. We are a mass recruiting alliance, many walked our halls.

Majority Pacificans, some wanderers, spies here and there, as well as attention seeking posers who were a bad joke. Setting the record straight here, for other nonsense you produce in mass quantity I do not care.

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You never was, or will be a Pacifican.
I am aware you were once a member. We are a mass recruiting alliance, many walked our halls.

Thank you for the doublethink comrade. Vladimir is rolling in his grave.

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Being a member of a CN alliance is a simple administrative matter of passing entrance. Being Pacifican goes beyond that. Something that holds true for as well also other CN present communities and cultures.

Now, spam ahead.

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Being a member of a CN alliance is a simple administrative matter of passing entrance. Being Pacifican goes beyond that. Something that holds true for as well also other CN present communities and cultures.

Now, spam ahead.

The idea that there was something mystical and undefinable about Pacifican exceptionalism was something Vladimir always rejected. NPO's success in the hegemony was based on philosophy and materialist analysis, not the weak and vision-less mysticism and jingoism that infects the leadership today. Ironically, TOP is closer to Vladimir's line of FA thinking than NPO these days.

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If the veterans of your previous alliances won't even validate you as a true ex-member, you can't be worth what you try and make yourself out to be.

I'm an Unperson.

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NPO is in the war because of treaty ties. But the agressive side isn't satisfied with how much they've beat on NPO.

TOP is part of the agressive side. They were one of the first AA's to declare war. They've had roughly 50% of their AA in peace mode the entire time.

It's pretty funny to hear the agressive side !@#$%* and whine that NPO is using Peace Mode to their advantage, while ignoring the fact that TOP is using Peace Mode themselves.

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The idea that there was something mystical and undefinable about Pacifican exceptionalism was something Vladimir always rejected. NPO's success in the hegemony was based on philosophy and materialist analysis, not the weak and vision-less mysticism and jingoism that infects the leadership today. Ironically, TOP is closer to Vladimir's line of FA thinking than NPO these days.

What's funny is that Vladimir's style of FA got the NPO of old into Karma. It got them into such a spot that they had to spend quite a lot of time paying reps and rebuilding. It put MK into power. It put TOP into power.

You might wish to check yourself before you make yourself out to be the "New Hegemony" which requires a "New Karma."

It may not come this war, but it always comes around eventually.

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What's funny is that Vladimir's style of FA got the NPO of old into Karma. It got them into such a spot that they had to spend quite a lot of time paying reps and rebuilding. It put MK into power. It put TOP into power.

You might wish to check yourself before you make yourself out to be the "New Hegemony" which requires a "New Karma."

It may not come this war, but it always comes around eventually.

The decay of the old Hegemony was due to the Mad Emperor Moo, not because of the guiding philosophy provided by Vladimir.

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"The sooner NPO and their cohorts realize that they cannot win politically, the sooner we can have peace. But should they not, well war really isnt so bad is it?" -Tywin Lannister

As one of the nations tied in by our treaty with AI to the NPO "side" of this conflict, this isn't at all about being pressured by NPO in any way. In fact, we're fine and we're having fun and we don't seem to be the exception in that regard.

Sure - I'm not "in" on the big discussions, but no alliance on the NPO side is complaining very much that I'm aware of. In my own case, this hasn't even registered as a war - I just got one glorified tech raid.

Pretending like there are alliances that are begging to get out of the war but staying because of NPO somehow forcing them to do so isn't going to change reality. The power to end war is on the side of those doing the attacking, not the other way around.

The only way for the war to end is for one side or the other to do enough real harm to the other that enough alliances ACTUALLY want out. This obviously has not occurred yet.

:salute: everyone - happy hunting.

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I gave this a chance because you linked it in another thread and honestly I got down to the third paragraph and skimmed other important-looking bits of your argument.

I don't want to come across as harsh, but you're really trying too hard to make NPO out to be a bad guy. Not only is your argument full of holes and uninformed, it's actually completely false on some points.

I like the effort you're putting into everything. I think if more people cared like you do this game would be more interesting. I just want you to do it in a way that doesn't make people laugh or ignore you.

Again, not trying to be harsh. Just my analysis.

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