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Your CB is INVALID!!!!!!!!!!!!


VIdiot the Great

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How many times have we heard this: 'You have no CB!' 'Your CB is Invalid!' or the tried and true 'Your CB is terrible!'

Guess what? You're wrong. All of you. And yes, you too. Stop stuttering 'but, but, but...' and listen up.

What's a CB?

A CB is a Casus Belli, or a reason or justification for war. Yet people go on and on about bad CB's.

Alliance A declares on Alliance B. Cries of 'unjustified war' are sure to ensue.

Guess what, it's not unjustified. I don't care what the reason is. Read that again. That's right. It doesn't matter what the reason is.

'It's Tuesday' is a valid CB.

'I don't like your flag' is a valid CB.

'You looked at me funny, once, a month ago' is valid.

There is no such thing as an invalid CB because the justification need only apply to the alliance declaring. It is the reason that THEY declared. It has nothing to do with whether or not you would declare under the same circumstances. You can disagree with the decision, you can disagree with the policy behind it, but it in no way makes the CB invalid.

CB's can cross the OOC/IC line, but that doesn't make it invalid. The crossing the OOC/IC line may be invalid for other reasons, but the CB still stands as that alliances justification for the war.

So please knock it off with the whole 'your CB is invalid' comments. The reasoning behind a CB may be invalid, but the CB itself never is. A CB is notice of why an alliance declared and nothing more.

But take heart, if there is that much of an issue with a CB, your alliance's CB declaring on them for the attack is equally valid.

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This is the sort of thing that is technically true but useless. If you are 80% of the strength in the world and can do what you like, then sure, any CB is valid. But in the real world, all operations require assistance from allies, and they require the opponent not to receive assistance from the rest of the world. If you do something which is 'unjustified' by the standards of those other alliances, you will receive less support and your opponent more.

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This is the sort of thing that is technically true but useless.

I disagree as to the 'useless' part. Fights over 'what is and isn't a valid' CB seem to take up a lot of space on the forums. Arguing over the validity is useless.

If you are 80% of the strength in the world and can do what you like, then sure, any CB is valid.

Validity of a CB is NOT a function of strength. That is the point of my particular post. CB's by definition are always valid.

But in the real world, all operations require assistance from allies, and they require the opponent not to receive assistance from the rest of the world.

Ok, let's look at Iraq. Not much support for that war from our allies, yet, somehow, on it rolls.

If you do something which is 'unjustified' by the standards of those other alliances, you will receive less support and your opponent more.

And in Real World and CN terms, so what? Every war since I've been in CN has been a curbstomp that didn't require any more support than that which was initially mustered prior to the declaration and CB. As to the opponent receiving more, again, I rarely see anyone step in and say 'oh, that is a terrible reason for war, I'm going to help.' Most of the time, no matter how weak the reasoning leading to a CB, alliances tend to find a way to avoid the altercation and be neutral.

And neutrality invariably favors the aggressor.

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Validity of a CB is NOT a function of strength.

Oh yeah? Then why is it only the strong alliances that sometimes go to war on 'weak' CBs? It is precisely because an 'invalid' CB is fine if you are strong, but if you are weak, a 'valid' CB is required to get the strong on your side (or at least neutral). Perhaps the CB's validity is not affected by who is issuing it, but the effectiveness certainly is.

Every war since I've been in CN has been a curbstomp that didn't require any more support than that which was initially mustered prior to the declaration and CB.

There are two points in here. Firstly, the current CN does have a strong faction – it's called the 'power structure' in some people's posts – which is strong enough that any CB will do. Even if it cannot count on the support of all its allies, those that wish to go to war are strong enough to prevent the opposition attracting military support from 'moral' alliances. The second is that if a CB is too weak to attract support prior to it being made public, it is likely that the war will never happen and the public will never see the CB. Every CB that you ever see is 'valid' in the eyes of several people – those who have agreed to support the war in advance.

I rarely see anyone step in and say 'oh, that is a terrible reason for war, I'm going to help.'

Indeed, it is rare. It happened in GW3, and in the Unjust War (several alliances 'activated' PIATs, or MDPs in aggression, in order to assist there).

Ok, let's look at Iraq. Not much support for that war from our allies, yet, somehow, on it rolls

Except, for shame, my country supported it :(. But Iraq was militarily extremely weak. No CB was required because America is strong enough to (i) roll Iraq unaided and (ii) dissuade anyone from attacking it in turn.

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Iraq's actually a pretty good supporting case for Janova's point. The United States has not yet met its original mission objectives there, and it looks rather unlikely that it will.

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The idea of a CB is to basically galvanise support within the international sphere (other alliances) and the domestic populace (own alliance members) of Planet Bob. If the CB is weak or appalling it isn't invalid as you correctly state but be prepared for the internal and external political backlash. Obviously larger alliances can ride most negative consequences but as for the smaller ones it is usually game over.

Interesting post/s btw. :)

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