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Roqgate brosgate

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Alfred von Tirpitz

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Well seeing as bros already accepted [on air] that he did snoop on UPN when he had admin access, by simply clicking on a thread in the gov areas... Roq pretty much stands proven true on the "MK Spied" issue.

While this has been interesting to see, i would rather Roq took a different approach to this. It is always better to let the masses whip themselves into a frenzy than to seem like you are trying to whip them into a frenzy. The best way to drop a bomb, Roq, is to just drop it, and then pop in every one or two days, answer any pertinent posts, ignore the obvious tangents and focus on the smart questions that are relevant to the topic at hand. Done right, it is a thing of beauty.

Right now, the T machine is trying very hard to make it about Roq and not about the issue. They have also had a modicum of success in this endeavor. Yes a few will winnow out the chaff and retain the salient points, i wonder how much that will help Roq's goals at this point in time.

Add to that the CBs based around spying have traction only when when an alliance with muscle is making the allegation. From the looks of things, in the public domain so far,UPN and RoK and the Sith are not about to make a thing of it. I am not even sure that the NSO even thinks its that big a deal or are even convinced that they were spied upon. UPN apparently forgave bros. RoK ... i think they will thank you for not making them "the news" at this point in time.

So you have one confirmed and one possible victim that are already curled up in the fetal position, a third that is "meh" about it and unless Nagasaki is something really ground breaking [but really guys, is there anything that we cant brush off?] i don't see any immediate impact of Roqgate.

Pity really, i was hoping for a flare up. Watching the scotch bottle mysteriously get emptied over the hours is not all its cracked up to be.

PS: bros... why man? wtf were you thinking.

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My guess (and it truly is a guess and nothing more) is the same energy that helped Roq lead Umbrella is hurting him here. He's trying to help the thread by throwing himself into it. It can be hard to let a thread go when you're the one being discussed.

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Again, I'm not sure why we're holding the treaty webs current lack of liquidity against Roq. Any other time in history probably a lot more faux moral outrage etc. That said, pretending this isn't a big deal and doesn't have far-reaching overarching consequences is also just as wrong as the many MK government and regular members alike who denied these allegations.

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Listen to the rest of what I said. It was a lapse in judgement. everyone has them

they usually aren't made public by people who you haven't even wronged, though.

I already talked to Adel about Roq's allegations.

NSO is currently investigating .

Roq was essentially accusing me of running a spy ring.

What I did was:

1. Pass along information I was sent on IRC.

2. click on one topic on the upn gov board and share things I shouldn't have.

One incident of spying.

Not spying on three separate alliances as Roq alleges.

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To borrow from someone else:

[20:58] <Jack_Tarr[FAN]> No, #1 if you gave Bros 5 fleet enemas he'd still be full of !@#$

You seem alright and I like your story OOC, bro's, but...yeah.

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Also it should be noted that no proof has been presented of Roq's allegation that RoK was spied on. We clearly don't know what Nagasaki will bring, but I prefer not to count my chickens before they hatch.

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Listen to the rest of what I said. It was a lapse in judgement. everyone has themthey usually aren't made public by people who you haven't even wronged, though.I already talked to Adel about Roq's allegations.NSO is currently investigating .Roq was essentially accusing me of running a spy ring.What I did was:1. Pass along information I was sent on IRC.2. click on one topic on the upn gov board and share things I shouldn't have.One incident of spying.Not spying on three separate alliances as Roq alleges.

My thoughts about your [bros the person] actually doing this in UPN's case, are not a matter for public debate and consumption, i will someday take them up with you.

I heard you speak, i tuned out during Roq's talk, and have not heard anything after Roq came on.For some reason i found it difficult to hear him. I understand that you attributed it to a momentary lapse in judgement and that it is a temptation to which you succumbed [although you did once say you accidentally clicked the link]. I understand all of that, however it does not detract from the fact that you then proceeded to make use of the information.

The point is this. You messed up. You bros the nation ruler, an MK member and occasional gov [idk] type fellow spied on an alliance, obtained the data and then gave it to others. It goes to establish the basis for Roq being factually correct in his assertion in at-least one scenario. Your confession or acceptance of the UPN incident puts paid to those that said MK did not spy.

As for NSO and RoK, i do not really care about whether they find any impropriety in the way their forums and data was accessed, wither by you or by others using your credentials, as has been alleged by Roq [leet accessing RoK boards with your creds].

The reason i made this blog entry was not about whether bros spied or not, it was more about an opportunity for something happening being lost due to the fact that the parties directly transgressed against [allegedly in case of NSO and RoK] are either not bothered or not feeling upto it, respectively. The one instance you owned up to, seemingly forgave you. Add to that the fact that the expose was ill managed and the discussion has the look of trying to chase rabbits over a grass plain while riding a pogo stick with a bllindfold on. It is more a critique on how the show was managed, rather than on the actual script of the show.

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Also, was that Brehon ranting on the show about old people doing old !@#$ all the time and nothing new happening due to the old dudes doing old !@#$ all the time? That was a good rant. Regardless of the subject matter, i appreciate a good rant when i hear one. It was good enough to make me want to buy him a round f his fav libation. idk, maybe i wills end him 5o tech instead.

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Again, I'm not sure why we're holding the treaty webs current lack of liquidity against Roq. Any other time in history probably a lot more faux moral outrage etc. That said, pretending this isn't a big deal and doesn't have far-reaching overarching consequences is also just as wrong as the many MK government and regular members alike who denied these allegations.

Do you feel that the initial presentation and the follow-through contained enough of a punch? Are you satisfied with the event management methodology? Would you have done it differently? Was it a well run campaign? If it is not the entire campaign, do you think it is a good start to a campaign?

Also it should be noted that no proof has been presented of Roq's allegation that RoK was spied on. We clearly don't know what Nagasaki will bring, but I prefer not to count my chickens before they hatch.

Yes, no body is saying otherwise. If the blog post ended up implying otherwise, you have my apologies. The point i am trying to make here is that inspite of having been factually proved correct [in once instance, which really ought to be enough for a 'OMG SPIEZ!!!' reaction], the way the event unfolded and the sapling over-watered, nothing major came of it in the short term at the very least. Long term impacts to be seen if and when they come about.

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Again, I'm not sure why we're holding the treaty webs current lack of liquidity against Roq. Any other time in history probably a lot more faux moral outrage etc. That said, pretending this isn't a big deal and doesn't have far-reaching overarching consequences is also just as wrong as the many MK government and regular members alike who denied these allegations.

Do you feel that the initial presentation and the follow-through contained enough of a punch? Are you satisfied with the event management methodology? Would you have done it differently? Was it a well run campaign? If it is not the entire campaign, do you think it is a good start to a campaign?

Yes. Besides, we're up for Nagasaki today.

I tend to not care on the methodology or management. It happened because of him... and could not have happened without Roquentin. That he has his own style is perfectly fine with me. Truth be told I probably audibly interview better, but he certainly writes better...probably better than most of CN. In case anyone hasn't been paying attention, he has responded to nearly every poster in his thread. From the hate-filled with a tinge of OOC attack posts, to the most nonsensical toadies.

Something we often forget is that Roquentin has nothing to lose. One could also correctly Sparta has also, very little to lose. This is the same MK that offered them an out to betray XX and then turned on them within a month. As for the whole Brehon interview, that was a setup. Bros looked bad enough by himself in that he portrayed himself to have lied and as Brehon did not get far enough into, inherently dishonest. (Again, I actually find bros to be a great guy and quite funny, but for IC purposes he still f'd the pooch.) Brehon and Roq have a history, and while Brehon will try not to admit it I know for a fact at least one of the two disliked the other before the interview took place and that it was bound for...eh.

That said, I don't think it looked as terrible as some would've hoped on Roq. The only thing was the really unobjective setup on having Archon come on afterwards and Brehon and him exchanging laughs and generally a huge contrast in terms of interview approach Roq received. (Again, anyone who knows anything about interviews could tell the difference in tone et al. )

As Roq stated quite prohpetically himself, he did more damage to the current power structure in a day than had been done in the previous year.

I think it was a great start to a campaign that had nothing to lose and everything to gain from the start. I patiently (hahahah, no.) await the next installment.

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To say that what bros did is IC spying is not the whole story.

He breached security of someone else's forum illegitimately, and from the looks of it, multiple times. Clearly, bros is no saint. It's fairly obvious this was done intentional too, as the html page Roq dropped shows bros (smugly) commenting on the stuff he gathered.

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One incident of spying.Not spying on three separate alliances as Roq alleges.

How can any person actually see the crap you keep typing and follow it with a "be nice to bros, it's not his fault he's a lying, conniving piece of crap".

You keep lying.

One incident of spying? Sardonic has already posted that on multiple occasions you used your position to gain access to data you had no right to view and passed it to him.

You keep lying.

Really, the best thing you could do is to just keep your mouth shut.

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Roqageddon, aroqolypse?

Also to be clear, I don't consider said incidents where bros mentioned to me things spying, as such things were never for the purpose of advancing an agenda or gaining advantage over alliance.

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Roqageddon, aroqolypse?

Also to be clear, I don't consider said incidents where bros mentioned to me things spying, as such things were never for the purpose of advancing an agenda or gaining advantage over alliance.

I have no idea why we don't call this "brosgate". Unless we're taking it from an IC angle, of course.

Which you're anyway probably doing from the look of it, TBH.

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Right now, the T machine is trying very hard to make it about Roq and not about the issue.
Roq is also trying very hard to make it about Roq and not about the issue.

Sorry Gopher, i view that thread as a totally unrelated issue. Think of it as one of the many doctrines we have floating around. Moldavi, Stewie, Tygaism... you know. That this doctrine/manifesto surfaced at this time seems to be a coincidence to me. I paid about as much attention to this doctrine as i did to the others I mentioned. Well to be honest i paid a hell lot more attention to the Stewie doctrine than any others, about 10 minutes. The only thing such doctrines inspire me to do is to try and cook up a bunch of common-sense statements, call it a doctrine and stick my name to it. It would be cool for about 10 mins i guess.

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I didn't care about going full throttle on the RoK accusation. I failed to screen it because my intentions were different at the time. Anyone in DH could tell you it actually happened. I just wanted RoK off bros' hosting since Ilyani did me a solid.

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I'm not trying to make it about me, really. It's just I'm getting accused of being insane and I don't like it one bit. A faux sense of concern is displayed by people like Archon and MK as a whole. I did the interview from Extreme Pizza. I don't blow up IRL unless you really do something bad.

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I didn't care about going full throttle on the RoK accusation. I failed to screen it because my intentions were different at the time. Anyone in DH could tell you it actually happened. I just wanted RoK off bros' hosting since Ilyani did me a solid.

Now that's quite interesting.

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To say that what bros did is IC spying is not the whole story.He breached security of someone else's forum illegitimately, and from the looks of it, multiple times. Clearly, bros is no saint. It's fairly obvious this was done intentional too, as the html page Roq dropped shows bros (smugly) commenting on the stuff he gathered.

I did not breach security at any time, that would be a felonious act. I simply abused the trust and access that was given to me.

I didn't care about going full throttle on the RoK accusation. I failed to screen it because my intentions were different at the time. Anyone in DH could tell you it actually happened. I just wanted RoK off bros' hosting since Ilyani did me a solid.

RoK was never on my hosting what makes you think this?

You know you could've come to me with your concerns before this and I would've listened, right? Hell, I still tolerate you. But my good will does not stretch on forever. No, I am not trying to portray myself as the good guy here by that previous sentence, I am simply stating a fact. Ask any alliance I have dealt with. It does not matter if they were absolutely reviled by myself or my alliance, I have helped them no questions asked, even when fellow MK gov memebers (I am considered middle MK gov, btw) have told me "No, don't help alliance <X>! Let their boards stay down!"

I absolutely suck at saying no. As evidenced by the interview with Brehon, I am honest to a fault (And due to my anxiety, I misspoke a few times). Would you rather have had me bury these allegations and doing all sorts of backroom cloak and dagger !@#$ to do so?

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Right now, the T machine is trying very hard to make it about Roq and not about the issue.
Roq is also trying very hard to make it about Roq and not about the issue.
Sorry Gopher, i view that thread as a totally unrelated issue. Think of it as one of the many doctrines we have floating around. Moldavi, Stewie, Tygaism... you know. That this doctrine/manifesto surfaced at this time seems to be a coincidence to me.

You consider it a mere coincidence that less than 12 hours after posting screenshots of the allegations against bros, Roq posts his political manifesto while he's the center of attention and everyone's watching what he's saying? You can't be serious.

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Well, I was called irrelevant for the longest time. I think the ideology was needed given the fact that the ruling powers think you're all inherently incompetent. I wanted to present an optimistic ideology. It needed to be formalized because the first time I brought it up was during the AGW thing.

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To say that what bros did is IC spying is not the whole story.He breached security of someone else's forum illegitimately, and from the looks of it, multiple times. Clearly, bros is no saint. It's fairly obvious this was done intentional too, as the html page Roq dropped shows bros (smugly) commenting on the stuff he gathered.
I did not breach security at any time, that would be a felonious act. I simply abused the trust and access that was given to me.
I didn't care about going full throttle on the RoK accusation. I failed to screen it because my intentions were different at the time. Anyone in DH could tell you it actually happened. I just wanted RoK off bros' hosting since Ilyani did me a solid.
RoK was never on my hosting what makes you think this?You know you could've come to me with your concerns before this and I would've listened, right? Hell, I still tolerate you. But my good will does not stretch on forever. No, I am not trying to portray myself as the good guy here by that previous sentence, I am simply stating a fact. Ask any alliance I have dealt with. It does not matter if they were absolutely reviled by myself or my alliance, I have helped them no questions asked, even when fellow MK gov memebers (I am considered middle MK gov, btw) have told me "No, don't help alliance <X>! Let their boards stay down!"I absolutely suck at saying no. As evidenced by the interview with Brehon, I am honest to a fault (And due to my anxiety, I misspoke a few times). Would you rather have had me bury these allegations and doing all sorts of backroom cloak and dagger !@#$ to do so?

If you were your entire alliance, it wouldn't have happened to begin with, so I'd say go talk to 1337 about the position you're in now. He is to blame mostly.

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Add to that the CBs based around spying have traction only when when an alliance with muscle is making the allegation.

An alliance without muscle today may be able to grow enough to take advantage of it in the future. Alliances rise and fall, it could be that MK and allies might end up in a losing war in the future.

But personally, I don't see spying in itself as a good CB. Spying only turns into a CB when the guilty side refuses to acknowledge it or taunts the other side into attacking them. bros has never directly denied it and actually admitted and apologized, and it looks like UPN isn't too pissed either. I don't really see anything coming out from this.

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