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Who is Cult of Justitia

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Schattenmann

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I am not looking for a response from Schatt

We both knew better. I have rearranged your post to organize it by topic.

You made some rather dashing personal attacks, but you can't demonstrate them and they don't merit response. But this is the part of your post that I most wanted to address.

I blame the entire community for your existance, you are truly the saddest, lonliest piece of souless !@#$ on this planet.

You honestly offer nothing to the community. Your are just a shell of a leader who is closely followed by a band of raving morons who worship the words that spill from your twisted, self-centric mind. You lead a true cult, it just has a stupid name.

I myself am always amused by the people who level attacks that boil down to Schattenmann is a lunatic has-been who is sad, and Cult of Justitia is a bunch of idiots that Schattenmann has hoodwinked into worshiping him. The insult is oxymoronic to begin with, but it is simply put laughable.

To demonstrate once and for all (I say "once and for all" but we know some retard will repeat these insults again, probably while I'm still typing, but let's hope!) the fallacy of this idiotic argument, I have made a list of everyone who has been a member of CoJ (applicants who were rejected are not included) and what their backgrounds were:

Valerius (PresidentKent) NADC: Senator; GATO: Congressman, MoFA

Frederick Bulshara

Sarah Tintagyl NSO: Minister of Propaganda; Noted CNRPer

Freelance____r The Coven

Cloudberry

zfeint

DJTJ7 SUN: MoFA; IDC: MoFA

Angela Spencer

Biff Webster GPA: President, Minister of Membership Compliance; Red Dawn: Red Senator

Limurach

sirdeclan NPO: Tech Corps manager; ACID: Triumvirate

katskip

Hyperbad GPA: Director of Communications

Vic Boss

Jonathan Brookbank GGA: Triumvirate; Vox Populi: Founder (JB did a bunch of other stuff, but he didn't list it in his application)

zarophel (Francesca) MCXA: MoFA; Vox Populi: MCXA sleeper

Thistledown

Jack The Ripper

Vince Sixx

Sitethief Fok: Vice President, MoFA; TOP: Knight Hospitaler, Heptagonist

Subtleknifewielder Second most posts on the OWF

acheron92

Zoot Zoot

ImperatorAzenquor TAB: High Magistrate

Gran TTK: Elder Council

JEDCJT

Paradise

Caprios

Snerval

jsnjcjrbbt

Lynneth

ITDA (Il Terra Di Agea)

IAmSancho

Don Chele GPA: Director of Communications, MoFA

Saarkin

BaronOfBeef GPA: President, Minister of Membership Compliance

Zarfef NSO: Marauder of War

Generalissimo ODN: Second Secretary General of the ODN

Markus Wilding

Lord Rav Greenland Republic: Triumvirate; GPA: MoFA, Dir of the Academy

Earogema (MegaAros) \m/: MoFA, Minister of Finance; TORN: Minister of Recruitment; Vox Populi: Senator, Founder

daggarz Nemesis: Triumvirate; Elysium: Chief Ambassador; TPF: MoC; Rapture: MoD; IPA: Senator

that-one-place ARES: DoD; Nemesis: Triumvirate

Yawoo ODN: Senates 13, 14, & 16, Secy State, MoD; MOON: Secy State, Emperor; Nemesis: Triumvirate, MoIA

Hellenica Founder of CNtel (expelled)

Duckz NPO: -classified-; Carpe Diem: Minister of Finance; The Lost World: Minister of Finance

Shatner

We Are Not Alone

Crazy Crazy Honour: MoFA; Nemesis: DMoFA, DMoIA

Chancellor Patrick

Biohazard DefCon: MoFA; Gondor: DMoFA

Titan

rishnokof RoK: Triumvirate

Ratio

Flyingscotsman Browncoats 1: MoFA; HPS: Founder; IAA: MoD

KingEsus

Sentinal

Stonewall Jaxon NADC: Senator; ACV: MoIA; MHA: DMoFA; Vox Populi: -classified-;

Lola Jones

hozeomaru

Sargun TAB: MoFA; Pendulum: Consul, Regent; PIMP: King; NSO: Marauder of War, Marauder of Economics

Comrade Korey Purge: Triumvirate

Sun WuKong GPA: President, Vice President, Dir of Recruitment; Jade Confederacy: Founder; Old Guard: Triumvirate, Delegate to Citadel, Delegate to Continuum; House Atreides: Dir of Recruiting; GOP: Triumvirate; TOOL: Councillor; Bushido: Daimyo

Kahn (Durim) SSX: Founder; Browncoats: Home Minister; IAA: Academy Headmaster

Awesome Dog GPA: MoD, Vice President

bigdaddychacha ODN: Senate 36, Dep Secy State

zzzptm ACDC: MoFA, Triumvirate; BDC: President, Nueva Vida: Lord of the Interior, Lord of History; Dark Templar: MoFA

For brevity's sake, this list does not include the 31 nations who joined CoJ when Dark Nations Association merged with us, but they include the government and founders of LEN, Silence, and others.

So, when I read some gadfly like MrWuss say that CoJ is nothing more than me being "closely followed by a band of raving morons who worship the words that spill from your twisted, self-centric mind" I am insulted not personally, but on behalf of these people. Sun WuKong, Tri of Old Guard, Delegate to Citadel and Continuum worships me? Ohhhhhh dear. Three Presidents of GPA raving morons? NSO Marauders? TOOL Councillors? Senators and Congressmen of ODN, GATO, NADC, & NAAC? The Vice President of Fok?

My dear Mr Wuss, I dare say that when you insult Cult of Justitia, you insult everyone.

Cult of Justitia is not about me; it's about Justitian ideals. Look at the roster: TPF, NPO, GATO, ODN, NSO, Browncoats 1, Old Guard, RoK, Fok: all enemies of Schattenmann. These are the rulers that for 5 years have ground my nation to dust, and derided me in their time as you do now. They do not worship Schattenmann, how could they? They know his every fault, his every failing.

The Cult of Justitia--Justitia's Cult, not mine--has attracted these many men of many accomplishments by its ideals and its commitment to its ideals. But they never boast (I daresay I will get a fair scolding for boasting on their behalf) because when they enter the Temple of Justice they do so having first read and acknowledged that "This is the altar upon which you place your nation.

In the state of nature, a nation is the property only of its ruler; a ruler is accountable only to himself. As an unaligned ruler, you stand before this altar in the portico to the Temple of Justice as a wild animal.

Before you may pass the threshold, you must outline your qualifications, and verbalize your intentions, but most importantly: acknowledge your new existence as part of a body greater than your own nation, signified by an oath to the Cult"

CoJ was founded immediately upon the dissolution of Vox Populi--the point in my history at which I was more popular and more powerful than at any time before or since; therefore, the point in time at which your accusation might ring most true. And yet, out of the 40 or so Vox, only 1, just 1, came to CoJ. And for weeks we were only two. And then for months we were only 5. And for months more we were never more than 15. And so for over two years, Schattenmann the man has moved further and further from the glory days, and yet more and more men who have done greater things than I, men who've had more power than I, men who've ZI'ed me have joined Justitia's Cult. There is no Cult of Schattenmann, that time passed a long, long time ago. Justitia's Cult and Justitian ideals tower over Her Presbyter.

I am humbled with every new application, and I am reminded that this is the Cult that Justitia built. Lonely? No, I am privileged to be in the company of some of Digiterra's greatest.

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You mean there was a time and place in where just by one declaration you could hit JB, Fran, JorJor, Daggarz, and yourself? Man, sign me up for that.

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Sometimes I tend to forget just how special of an alliance we really have in Justitia's Temple. I am honored to serve alongside my fellow Mystes, in knowing that We Who Dream can never truly return to the world as it actually exists.

Also, who is mrwuss again?

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While I don't necessarily disagree with the content of your post (I skimmed it after the first couple paragraphs), and actually happen to disagree with mrwuss, the idea that you think being a Marauder in NSO and a raving moron are somehow mutually exclusive is genuinely hilarious.

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While I don't necessarily disagree with the content of your post (I skimmed it after the first couple paragraphs), and actually happen to disagree with mrwuss, the idea that you think being a Marauder in NSO and a raving moron are somehow mutually exclusive is genuinely hilarious.

Yeah, as much as I still like NSO......what he said.

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Every time mrwuss' dumb taunts make a moralist post an essay, an angel gets its wings.

aerisyayL4.jpg

Also, who is mrwuss again?

Must be someone important if Schat is blogging about him.

aerisdisL1.jpg

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While I don't necessarily disagree with the content of your post (I skimmed it after the first couple paragraphs), and actually happen to disagree with mrwuss, the idea that you think being a Marauder in NSO and a raving moron are somehow mutually exclusive is genuinely hilarious.

Haha, I shall concede your point, but argue that we took the good ones :P

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Must be someone important if Schat is blogging about him.

Very well, I remember pulling the same argument in Schatt's anniversary thread, but I'm just saying if you call someone unimportant or accuse them of contributing nothing to the community, you should either have done something in your time in CN or be a well-contributing member. Obviously wuss doesn't fit that criteria.

Also, would it be beating a dead horse to say that the pictures are annoying? I guess it would defeat my purpose because that's why you do them, right?

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While I don't necessarily disagree with the content of your post (I skimmed it after the first couple paragraphs), and actually happen to disagree with mrwuss, the idea that you think being a Marauder in NSO and a raving moron are somehow mutually exclusive is genuinely hilarious.

Yeah man. That's nothing compared to being the IDC MoFA

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Appeal to popularity, appeal to authority, you don't state how long any of them remained in the cult, leadership background does not imply sound reasoning, past actions do not imply future motivations, you don't have any direct testimony from any of these members so apparently you can read their minds.

Can you make this argument again without the gigantic namedrop?

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The Cult is proud to welcome its newest member Daemon, Co-Consul and MoIA of LEN.

That's quite the resume he's got there. I can't imagine having to serve as Co-Consul and MoIA for an alliance that prestigious.

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Appeal to popularity, appeal to authority, you don't state how long any of them remained in the cult, leadership background does not imply sound reasoning, past actions do not imply future motivations, you don't have any direct testimony from any of these members so apparently you can read their minds.Can you make this argument again without the gigantic namedrop?

Mr Wuss' contention is that I am "just a shell of a leader who is closely followed by a band of raving morons who worship the words that spill from your twisted, self-centric mind." It is, then, a question of persons and personalities to be answered by persons and personalities. Here are 67 out of 98 who have joined CoJ through active application (the other 31 having joined through merger though still of their own free will [they represent about 3/4 of DNA when the merge occurred]).

I'm sorry that you dislike my answer, but if you find fault, you must find it with the accusation. Can I make this argument again without the "giant namedrop?" No, because where the contention is that the members of CoJ are mindless numbskulls to my Pied Piper, we must examine just who these supposed raving morons are. And we see that in fact they are anything but.

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Ah, so mrwuss saying he blames the community for your existence is countered by a list of said community members to blame for your existence. Thanks for the tip, broseph.

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I see my alliance (FOK being mentioned). Sitethief was a spy, he spied on FOK with a multi while being in TOP. He was expelled by TOP and we almost ZI'd him. Eventually we let him get away with a simple tech fine. He was considered an outcast and CoJ picked him up. He got fed up with the game while being in CoJ and deleted a few months after.

I see more people on the list who have a history of betrayal and spying. Those people aren't accepted in the bigger alliances and end up in CoJ. The other alliances don't want them because traitors and spies can't be trusted.

This list doesn't prove much, I see only low ranked gov from the bigger alliances or high ranked gov from minuscule alliances or (semi) neutral alliances on the list.

There isn't a single high ranked gov member from quality alliances like Umb, MK, TOP, NPO, NpO, FARK, Gremlins, VE, IRON or Valhalla on the list.

Also anyone who was active in the Q channels can confirm that Old Guard was a one man show by Reyne and that the Sun Wukong guy was never online. He was only a delegate to the continuum on paper because OG was very inactive.

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Must be someone important if Schat is blogging about him.
Very well, I remember pulling the same argument in Schatt's anniversary thread, but I'm just saying if you call someone unimportant or accuse them of contributing nothing to the community, you should either have done something in your time in CN or be a well-contributing member. Obviously wuss doesn't fit that criteria.

Also, would it be beating a dead horse to say that the pictures are annoying? I guess it would defeat my purpose because that's why you do them, right?

You don't have to be a leader to point out Schat isn't a good leader. You also don't have to be an artist to dislike art, or a chef to dislike food. Trash is trash. Anyone can see that. Saying "mrwuss isn't anyone important so he can't say Schat isn't" is a pure deflection.

aerisdisL6.jpg

And what about the pictures?

aerisfffX1.jpg

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Earogema (MegaAros) \m/: MoFA, Minister of Finance; TORN: Minister of Recruitment; Vox Populi: Senator, Founder

True friend, BAMF and personification of an ideal held dear by many.

You forgot the things that matter, Schatt.

We Are Not Alone

Nutter, always good for a laugh, slightly silly but still a good guy.

And again.

rishnokof RoK: Triumvirate

The one who punched RL in the berries. True friend, copious imbiber of spirits.

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Can I make this argument again without the "giant namedrop?" No, because where the contention is that the members of CoJ are mindless numbskulls to my Pied Piper, we must examine just who these supposed raving morons are. And we see that in fact they are anything but.

Fair enough, the names are perhaps warranted. But my contention is that while you say we must "examine just who these supposed raving morons are," but you didn't do much of that. All you did was list their past credentials, and as I pointed out, credentials tell you nothing about the person. You could have made a much more solid and substantive point if you had simply singled out a good 5-10 members and elaborate in a verifiable way on how their specific history refutes mrwuss's point.

And honestly I believe that you could have done this. I think that you're technically correct in refuting mrwuss's "claim", and you simply did a bad job of it. While I do think you're a spotlight-hound and there are many people who agree with you solely because of your reputation, I know that mrwuss's post was nothing more than a barb to get a reaction out of you. And I find it endlessly entertaining that this blog post is the result.

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WANA is in CoJ? good lord

WANA was in CoJ. This is a list of everyone who's joined CoJ by application. When WANA applied, he was at the end of his rope, and he needed somewhere to go. I didn't know him, no one else in CoJ knew him, we were given to understand he had some baggage. We could have turned him away because he wasn't popular, but I didn't found CoJ to be a social club. He was in CoJ for a little less than 4 months and I can tell you if anyone in CoJ was worshipping me in November, they certainly weren't by the time I asked WANA to leave. Despite the PR points externally and the arguing internally, I wouldn't change it, and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone else who needs a respite or a sanctuary comes to the gates again, and I'll give it to them again. We grow ourselves by contacting and allowing differences.

CoJ is an organization founded to do things, and sometimes we can do big things and sometimes we can do small things. In this case, it was a small thing, and I'm glad we did it even though it was difficult.

I see my alliance (FOK being mentioned). Sitethief was a spy, he spied on FOK with a multi while being in TOP. He was expelled by TOP and we almost ZI'd him. Eventually we let him get away with a simple tech fine. He was considered an outcast and CoJ picked him up. He got fed up with the game while being in CoJ and deleted a few months after.

Sitethief was, in fact, a member of CoJ for 18 months. Maybe in Holland 1.5 years is a few months, but not over here in the real world. If your claims about his acts are true, I dare say I don't see how they're any more a condemnation of CoJ than of Fok: After all, he was your Vice President. It seems to me, in fact, that he was pretty clever if he pulled off those stunts. I don't recall either Fok or TOP contacting CoJ about their issues, and Sitethief was a big enough boy to take care of his problems on his own. Just the sort of intelligent, motivated individual that CoJ is populated with.

I see more people on the list who have a history of betrayal and spying. Those people aren't accepted in the bigger alliances and end up in CoJ. The other alliances don't want them because traitors and spies can't be trusted.

And aren't you all so glad that they were overt members of CoJ rather than covert agents of CoJ?

The Vox Populi spies who joined CoJ months and years after our founding joined for the same reason everyone else did: Our ideals. Far from your claims, they all spent very long tenures in regular alliances and regular members before joining CoJ. I'll tell you a funny story: I didn't know that Francesca was in CoJ until MCXA sniffed her out and then told me.

This list doesn't prove much, I see only low ranked gov from the bigger alliances or high ranked gov from minuscule alliances or (semi) neutral alliances on the list. There isn't a single high ranked gov member from quality alliances like Umb, MK, TOP, NPO, NpO, FARK, Gremlins, VE, IRON or Valhalla on the list. Also anyone who was active in the Q channels can confirm that Old Guard was a one man show by Reyne and that the Sun Wukong guy was never online. He was only a delegate to the continuum on paper because OG was very inactive.

Hear that ODN? You're not a quality alliance. GGA? Jonathan Brookbank has his peculiarities of personality, but he was Tri during GGA's most powerful period. Ditto for rishnokof and Rok during its prime. TOP, Fok.

Look, Timmehhh, I'm not going to come and twist your arm til you say what I want to hear, but I will require you to be serious about this. As I said in the OP, to insult our membership is to insult just about every alliance, and in this case, you're calling your own alliance's and your allies' competence into question to get a shot in at CoJ. Your choice. I think it's silly.

Can I make this argument again without the "giant namedrop?" No, because where the contention is that the members of CoJ are mindless numbskulls to my Pied Piper, we must examine just who these supposed raving morons are. And we see that in fact they are anything but.
Fair enough, the names are perhaps warranted. But my contention is that while you say we must "examine just who these supposed raving morons are," but you didn't do much of that. All you did was list their past credentials, and as I pointed out, credentials tell you nothing about the person. You could have made a much more solid and substantive point if you had simply singled out a good 5-10 members and elaborate in a verifiable way on how their specific history refutes mrwuss's point.And honestly I believe that you could have done this. I think that you're technically correct in refuting mrwuss's "claim", and you simply did a bad job of it. While I do think you're a spotlight-hound and there are many people who agree with you solely because of your reputation, I know that mrwuss's post was nothing more than a barb to get a reaction out of you. And I find it endlessly entertaining that this blog post is the result.

I will accept this criticism. We all have constraints on how long we have to spend doing this CyberButtes thing, and it was a quick job on this.

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