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Alliance State of Mind


Xiphosis

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I was talking to a couple of people last night about something that happened back in 07 and in the course of retrieving the threads involved so we could all have a laugh about it, I noticed something; everyone in the thread was mostly being cool to each other. There was some nastiness, but it was subtle.

It reminded me of when LUE disbanded, and NPO gov turned out to hail them and remark on how the fighting had brought them closer. Seems to me you just don't see that anymore, and it's a shame, because it makes for a good forum atmosphere and good playing experience.

Makes you wonder what changed, and how to go about fixing it.

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My guess is that people back then just didn't have quite the same "$%&@ you, and $%&@ everything you stood for ever" level of hate.

Either that, or people were just more careful about what they said publically. *shrug*

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This is just conjecture, so it might be totally wrong, or only partially wrong, or perhaps maybe there's a sliver of truth to it.

Back in '07, I recall being terrified of posting on the OWF because any random comment had the potential of bringing death and destruction upon my tiny alliance.

Perhaps the ever-tangling treaty web and the new sense of freedom and righteousness actually contributed to a more hostile public forum precisely because more people feel more free to say whatever comes to mind. Maybe civility was a casualty of the Karma revolution.

Just a thought. Feel free to tear it apart.

-Craig

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Could be. I've always wondered if the trend away from apocalyptic terms [such as LUEs] has contributed to more brashness, but maybe it's something else - and maybe people simply never relieve the tension they have with one another anymore.

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It might just be some people are taking the game more seriously and everyone is taking it personally. The blurring of the OOC/IC line has always frustrated me. Nuke someone's nation, and you emotionally nuke the person behind the nation. I know everyone's spending like half a year or more rebuilding, but it's no reason to take it personally.

I'd sort of like things to go to a state similar to TE. Blow up each other for a while, knock them to half their size, then high five, good game, fun war. These days.. everyone is just trying to ridicule their opponent for an in game political advantage. Trolling, lies/spin, OOC attacks, more trolling. Showing your opponent respect only strengthens them, so let's troll them some more and point out what hypocrites and horrible, immoral fighters they are. Very few alliances, if any, take the moral high ground these days; it's like a big brawl where everyone is dragging each other through the mud and ends up neck deep in mud.

You don't actually see any respect in disbandments or reformations these days. Everyone's always 'hurr your a horrible alliance and should've disbanded years ago'. I find it difficult to imagine enemies respecting if an important alliance were to disband now. People would OOC celebrate it as a victory, instead of the loss of an opponent. Then they'd get back to whining about how the game is dying.

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the entire style of posting has changed, look on the old forums compared to modern thread, but on these forums since the UjW the world has seemed more... mean is the only word i can describe it as, there isnt much intelligent discourse, it's usually just "NO U" arguments back and forth forever.

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It might just be some people are taking the game more seriously and everyone is taking it personally. The blurring of the OOC/IC line has always frustrated me. Nuke someone's nation, and you emotionally nuke the person behind the nation. I know everyone's spending like half a year or more rebuilding, but it's no reason to take it personally.I'd sort of like things to go to a state similar to TE. Blow up each other for a while, knock them to half their size, then high five, good game, fun war. These days.. everyone is just trying to ridicule their opponent for an in game political advantage. Trolling, lies/spin, OOC attacks, more trolling. Showing your opponent respect only strengthens them, so let's troll them some more and point out what hypocrites and horrible, immoral fighters they are. Very few alliances, if any, take the moral high ground these days; it's like a big brawl where everyone is dragging each other through the mud and ends up neck deep in mud.You don't actually see any respect in disbandments or reformations these days. Everyone's always 'hurr your a horrible alliance and should've disbanded years ago'. I find it difficult to imagine enemies respecting if an important alliance were to disband now. People would OOC celebrate it as a victory, instead of the loss of an opponent. Then they'd get back to whining about how the game is dying.

I actually agree with you on every point but I laughed a Lot reading this.

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the entire style of posting has changed, look on the old forums compared to modern thread, but on these forums since the UjW the world has seemed more... mean is the only word i can describe it as, there isnt much intelligent discourse, it's usually just "NO U" arguments back and forth forever.

At least we still have international Mogar hatred to rally around. :P

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I think there are a few exceptions. Last war at MCXA we stressed being sporting and just having a good time with our opponents, and I can remember at least a few people who supported it.

Also I believe Nor and Val met each on the battlefield and that led to their treaty.

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Ironically, I think the exact opposite is more true. By and large relationships are friendly, on a person to person level, even amongst "enemy" alliances. It seems to me that all the camaraderie created throughout IRC, makes it more difficult for the political game to move, because rivalries dont feel like rivalries.

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Also, it was a slightly older crowd dominating CN during those days. Many of those people have either moved on (retiring from the Game, getting Banned), or just going through the doldrums (Collecting Taxes and pretty much nothing else). Some have also turned to just the IRC Channels or other means of communicating with their old CN mates.

But as some have mentioned above, there's still a lot of respect shown to AAs or Nations that have had the history of honor, or fighting skills in the Game.

:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

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I wasn't around in 07, and I wasn't really active in this game until late 2008, so I don't remember that time. I'm interested however, and I'm going to go ahead and look back and read some of those threads (i.e the LUE disbandment thread). Then I'll actually have something more than this filler post to contribute to the conversation.

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I wasn't around in 07, and I wasn't really active in this game until late 2008, so I don't remember that time. I'm interested however, and I'm going to go ahead and look back and read some of those threads (i.e the LUE disbandment thread). Then I'll actually have something more than this filler post to contribute to the conversation.

read up on the moldavi rebellion, green massacre, and the unjust war too.

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Someone already mentioned this, people have finally understood that they can behave however they wish as long as they stay between the lines set by admin. Unfortunately, most wish to get their kicks by derision rather than discussion.

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it still happens, but now the alliances fighting hate each other so much its less common. I still respect avalon for when my alliance fought them during karma war and i kept in touch with them as much as i could post-war til i had to go inactive. It really just depends on who you are fighting. If i fought an alliance i couldnt stand and absolutely hated, sure id rub it in as much as i could. if it were an alliance that i was fighting cuz i had to and not for any personal vendetta then theres no reason to not be respectful because theres no animosity

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I think part of it is that the people who post on the OWF tend to be the people who take it more seriously. In our day BRIG made some friends through fighting them, and eventually allied several of our historic enemies, because conflict with them allowed us to get to know them and find that ultimately they were pretty decent folks.

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Irony, thy name is Xiphosis.

You want to know why people aren't 'nice' to each other anymore? Go look in a mirror, champ.

That you would even think to bring this up is causing much hilarity on several alliance forums I frequent. Why's that? Oh, I dunno....maybe it's because you have spent so much time 'acting' like a paranoid psychotic that you've lost the respect of damn near anyone who's dealt with you up close and personal. My God, the first comment in here is from someone in your own alliance who is essentially saying "Hiya pot, meet kettle...."

The last couple of times we've had to deal with each other you've acted like a belligerent twerp, the kind of idiot I'd slap across the face in person. And you have the gall to bemoan the loss of civility?

Wow.

Perhaps in your inevitable 'kissy kissy love you too' retort you might want to include an Anne Frank joke, just to be consistent.

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I think its due to a misconception that most of the banter on here actually matters. This forum is where things sometimes start or come to light, it might be where things end, and it can be where you get a general feel for an alliance and their opinions, but its not where the meat and potatoes go down. No amount of arguing or "making someone look bad" on here can actually get enough support to destroy them if the people who would be supporting aren't already otherwise inclined, some goes for the converse as well. In reality, its about interpersonal relationships between alliances and what different groups can bring to the table in the event of war that determines the what, when, who, and how of this little merry go round we have here.

That line of thinking breeds the mentality of "this post will really get them this time, hahaha!". I've made the joke before that people think their posts destroy infra, but it actually does seem like that's their belief sometimes. If someone has the delusion that their comment is akin to a nuke being fired, bringing the target alliance closer to destruction with each hit, why would they waste the opportunity by showing respect? So, instead of rational thought and giving credit where credit is due, we have catchphrase after catchphrase, selective quoting, and endless bickering over minutia.

Unfortunately, I don't see it ever changing.

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