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Honestly, Everyone's A Bit The Same

Fokker Aeroplanbau

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I've noticed this for a while, so I thought I might as well throw it out there. I've done a lot of writing recently for finals, so I don't feel too verbose. Of course, if anyone is truly that interested in probing my assumptions, I'll probably start becoming progressively more tangent prone and wordier. Nevertheless, not to put a too fine a point on it: all CN Alliances are the same dull shade of OOC. Sure, there could be some cosmetic differences. Perhaps some weird personal animosity between some members exists, as if CN mattered. Perhaps some have an oddly German overtone, as if beating a dead horse into jelly is somehow an exciting and unique pastime. Yet what I don't see is IC anything. At least, nothing IC that'd I recognize as IC. Much less an IC persona that is, let's say it together, interesting. Everyone is OOC and happy, or maybe a bit snarky. Yet even the snarkiness isn't terribly interesting, and neither is the uniform moralizing. I'm also getting a bit tired of so many OOC memes running over into IC, and replacing vaguely legitimate reasons/morals/principles; at least, as legitimate as a forum browser game can be. Not only is most of these memes masquerading as something more irritating to new players, it's really only appealing to a very narrow range of nerdy adolescents. If I see another baby crying about infra, or someone yelling that friends are more important than pixels; I'm going to cry. That's OOC, and to someone who doesn't really believe in having 'friends' through CN--it just doesn't make sense.

Being for 'free markets' or 'tyranny?' Yeah, that makes sense. To new players and players like me. Otherwise? Nah, it just doesn't do it for me and I'm getting a bit bored with the whole thing.

Sometimes people also get mad, but it's always the same OOC 'u mad' uniformity that makes this game so... Uninteresting. I'd love to see more alliances like the OBR, who always seem to be doing their own thing because frankly they are. Their IC adherence precludes most interaction because CN has become an eye watering shade of OOC dullness. Sadly enough... *shrugs* I just don't see that many alliances following in their footsteps. Though I would appreciate it.



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all CN Alliances are the same dull shade of OOC. Sure, there could be some cosmetic differences. Perhaps some weird personal animosity between some members exists, as if CN mattered. Perhaps some have an oddly German overtone, as if beating a dead horse into jelly is somehow an exciting and unique pastime. Yet what I don't see is IC anything.

Not being funny but I kind of saw this back in '06 more so about policies than any themes. It's rather like the political forums how everyone always beats on the same topics rehashing them time and time again because that's all they ever really see. This issue isn't unique to CN. Just about every alliance in every game is a carbon copy of another. In a world where mechanics are strictly defined for what ones course of action might be it's rather difficult to think outside of the box, let alone getting people to act in such a manner as any thought might lead.

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If you don't see the stark differences in personality between alliances like like MK and alliances like STA, then I don't know what to say to you. There are a lot of alliances that are similar, but to say that all alliances are more or less the same is pretty absurd.

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If you don't see the stark differences in personality between alliances like like MK and alliances like STA, then I don't know what to say to you. There are a lot of alliances that are similar, but to say that all alliances are more or less the same is pretty absurd.

A different personality does not automatically equate to a difference between the alliances in depth. You'll find many alliances having the same general structure right down to what's included in government documents and teaties. There's also little variation in what alliances do, when, how and what the ultimate goals are for said actions.

At best the depth of differences between alliances could probably be counted without even using all of the fingers on ones hand.

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What does 'in depth' mean? Yes, treaties and government documents are pretty boilerplate but thats just because its been five years of practice where people have generally figured out what works. Still an alliance's personality is the depth of the alliance. I could read an alliance's charter and wiki article and still know nothing about what that alliance actually is. I do a bit of FA work and its pretty clear just how different every alliance is. Even in tightly related groups like Pandora's Box and Doomhouse, there are big differences in the personality and mindset of the members in each alliance. Expanding beyond that to Dos Equis, the differences just get larger and more numerous. By the time we get to the other side of the treaty web, alliances have become vastly different than one another. Sure the Orders and Doomhouse might both IA staff, FA staff, some kind of powerful autocratic ruler but beyond these superficial similarities, we have two very, very different groups.

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A lot of things you said are true. You're right that most interaction in CN is quasi-OOC. Very few of us actually pretend that we're presidents/emperors/ayatollahs/whatever and interact based on that. When CNers interact we tend to chat about things like our favorite bands, whether or not that new movie sucked, the ramifications of Bin Laden's death, why drafting Randy Moss in fantasy football seemed like a good idea at the time, etc. That's the case here, on alliance forums, on IRC, etc. You're also right about the prevalence of OOC memes (u mad, smug, the Dos Equis commercials, etc). Honestly, I don't think the OOC-ness is a terrible thing. Strict RP appeals to a very small group of people, comparatively speaking. See, for example, how few people post regularly in the CNRP forums as compared to the looser RP of the OWF and the OOC atmosphere of the Water Cooler.

As for alliances being the same, it depends what you mean. True, most have one of a very small set of structures, and most have similar FA strategy. Communities are vastly different, however.

-Bama

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What does 'in depth' mean?

That probably is the single determining factor for how one responds to this entry. For me it would be a meaningful difference, something which sets an alliance apart and makes it feel like it's a different place and they're doing something unique from that of "x, y, and/or z." In my opinion what the community has chosen to focus most of their attention on has largely been theatrics - RP/PR.

Yes, treaties and government documents are pretty boilerplate but thats just because its been five years of practice where people have generally figured out what works.

To me this just illustrates how everyone more or less is a carbon copy of each other. There is no creativity or innovation, no real divergence from the norm and those who do seek it are generally chastized as being "noobs" and recommended to join and already existing alliance so they may learn how to conform to the norms which have existed for five years. The most basic tenets of an alliance's existence are codified, structured and carried out in much the same way regardless of the personalities these entities or those within them have thereby making these personalities rather moot. If you don't act on it but largely according to something else then it just doesn't matter. Part of the reason for this is with how game mechanics have been established and this will always be an issue. Those who don't take the game seriously and aren't structured in most ways then unless you're an elite alliance with veteran membership you just won't be competitive.

Still an alliance's personality is the depth of the alliance. I could read an alliance's charter and wiki article and still know nothing about what that alliance actually is. I do a bit of FA work and its pretty clear just how different every alliance is. Even in tightly related groups like Pandora's Box and Doomhouse, there are big differences in the personality and mindset of the members in each alliance. Expanding beyond that to Dos Equis, the differences just get larger and more numerous. By the time we get to the other side of the treaty web, alliances have become vastly different than one another. Sure the Orders and Doomhouse might both IA staff, FA staff, some kind of powerful autocratic ruler but beyond these superficial similarities, we have two very, very different groups.

In the present climate personality adds flavor to the frame work which exists, nothing more.

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Stopped about halfway when I hit a particularly egregious violation of grammar.The RP that you're talking about is outside of the mechanics of the game, and the forums have a dedicated section for it:http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showforum=72

Baseless pile of pudding.

tumblr_ll27svNozG1qb7sldo1_500.jpg

Thank you Bama, Hyperbad and Savage Man for your mature, well-reasoned, thoughts.

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This post is kind of like saying 'everyone has two arms and two legs, so you're all the same'. Yes, we all sign the same types of treaties (though the wording is often quite different, so I wonder if you actually read treaties) and have similar clauses in our charters. Why? Because those are the things that alliances need to operate successfully. (Also, treaties are between at least two alliances, so there will always be compromise of alliance culture.)

Most alliances don't have a strong IC basis for their identity, but they do have strong IC identities nevertheless, often shaped by their history. OBR and NPO are the two with the strongest RP element, I would say. But if you think that GOONS and TOP are 'too similar', or MK and NpO, then I don't know how you manage to live in a western country without complaining that everybody there is too similar.

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Stopped about halfway when I hit a particularly egregious violation of grammar.The RP that you're talking about is outside of the mechanics of the game, and the forums have a dedicated section for it:http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showforum=72
Baseless pile of pudding.
tumblr_ll27svNozG1qb7sldo1_500.jpg

Wasn't me posting in a year old DoE topic praising TIO for being original, then complain in blog post about Bob not being original and how everything is a copy of a copy(Hint this is TIO2, less original government wise than the original TIO).

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This post is kind of like saying 'everyone has two arms and two legs, so you're all the same'. Yes, we all sign the same types of treaties (though the wording is often quite different, so I wonder if you actually read treaties) and have similar clauses in our charters. Why? Because those are the things that alliances need to operate successfully.

Non-sense. GPA, Grey Council, TDO, WTF and possibly GOP (not sure if they signed anything) all show you don't require treaties to operate successfully. That might be true however when speaking of an involved FA policy but we don't have any real examples beyond a few scattered war entries when no treaty applied. This would ultimately boil down to it not being the norm so at worst you'd need to be able to stomach it slightly better than most alliances until others recognize you they won't just fold and conform because others demand it. Even if challenged the question of how one measures success here is rather gray as one who operates without treaties clearly wouldn't be as concerned about consolidating political power or influence since it's not being codified like everyone else.

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Stopped about halfway when I hit a particularly egregious violation of grammar.The RP that you're talking about is outside of the mechanics of the game, and the forums have a dedicated section for it:http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showforum=72
Baseless pile of pudding.
tumblr_ll27svNozG1qb7sldo1_500.jpg
Wasn't me posting in a year old DoE topic praising TIO for being original, then complain in blog post about Bob not being original and how everything is a copy of a copy(Hint this is TIO2, less original government wise than the original TIO).

Why you so mad? I praise things that I think are original, and have a blogpost saying that Bob should be more original... Thus QED I am... What? Unfairly treating TIO? Fool, you crazed.

Most alliances don't have a strong IC basis for their identity, but they do have strong IC identities nevertheless, often shaped by their history. OBR and NPO are the two with the strongest RP element, I would say. But if you think that GOONS and TOP are 'too similar', or MK and NpO, then I don't know how you manage to live in a western country without complaining that everybody there is too similar.

Flipping through the OWF, and then reading this... I'm not sure what you've been reading, but 99.99% of the OWF, even for all those alliances you've listed, are copy-paste.

"Interesting, Sort of Witty Title; Preferably Puny."

A short little introduction, all OOC.

Copy-paste.

Signed,

Random Names.

That's all I see, I don't see how you can make the conclusion that just because Mushroom Kingdom has a different flag then it makes it a new and unique alliance. Equally: NPO, TOP, all the others you've mentioned. To a person like me, who really is just looking over the alliances unbiasedly, they're the same. Sorry.

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The individual communities of alliances are very much unique, if you travel around and get to know them a little. And that is what CN is about, for most people (we stick around for our communities, rather than the game itself). But you're right... IC, everyone is largely the same (with the exception of a couple more serious groups). Granted, there is at least a basic good versus evil element going on for some groups. It's not defined enough to create a plot for the game... but they are trying anyway. Perhaps half-heartedly. :v:

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No, they're not all the same. I join alliances purely for IC reasons. I may join as a diplomat for OOC reasons, like if I like a community, and it's also why many alliances put their OOC subforum for the public.

There are plenty of alliances I won't join for IC reasons. They're really not the same. NpO has different principles and a different IC approach than say, \m/ or TOP. And the alliances in TE are very, very distinct IC, but not a lot of people bother to take a good look at them.

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I've done a lot of writing recently for finals, so I don't feel too verbose. Of course, if anyone is truly that interested in probing my assumptions, I'll probably start becoming progressively more tangent prone and wordier.

Get out.

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This blog pretty well summarized what's annoyed me to the point of nearly deleting.

Of course alliances are going to have slightly different styles based on the theme and membership. But since so few AA's actually do anything besides wait to fulfill their mdp's, there isn't much to distinguish one from the next. You could probably combine each bloc into an AA without losing anything from the game except lame, jokey announcements about elections (followed by "oh no, you let x into gov? there goes the neighborhood!").

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I've found huge differences in a lot of alliances on the OWF, their forums and IRC. Whether IC or OOC, I know I'm getting a different experience at each place. It's why people join certain alliances and why there aren't all that many serial alliance-hoppers around.

Besides, my alliance is distinctive IC so I'm good. :smug:

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If all alliances were fundamentally the same, then they wouldn't exist. You dismiss personality and character as if they are merely cosmetic features, when,in fact, they are as important here as they are in the "real world." I'd argue that these features are prominent in CN because they are equally prominent in the OOC world. It seems absurd to say that CN is flawed because it reflects the greater society from which we are all drawn.

-Craig

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