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From: A Statement from Doomhouse

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Kyaris

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They can stay in peacemode as long as they desire? Personally I think DOOMHOUSE's solution to the problem is preferrable. Though I wouldn't mind seeing NPO, Legion, TPF, Invicta, and Co. strangling themselves with their own "strategy" while our side continues to grow out of reach.

Oh, and while they continue to deliver the war that we've promised our smaller members for some time, boosting ranks like what...40% over the last month?

The Hopeless Coalition is the proverbial ostrich with its head in the sand. Keep imagining were not here, keep imagining this war didn't happen, keep imagining you can walk away if you just keep your head buried.

This post is the summary of what you misunderstand about the position that you're in, Pacifica and allies. Even if you can prove that we have no due cause for making this war against NPO, which you can't because we do, you can't sit back and justify that you are in a war of defense by virtue of aggression you've made. If you're not capable of handling what happens when you have to actually fulfill your obligations under that shiny MDP you signed for giggles and appearances, then don't sign it. Perhaps choose allies that are less likely to be attacked for their past transgressions. You didn't get dragged into this. You chose to be here.

This is more clear in the Legion case than any other. They wanted the MDP, they wanted all of the diplomacy, the benefits, and the self-righteousness, but when it came time for them to do their part, they left their allies to twist in the wind. I can only imagine the hilarity that would have ensued if we had had cause to attack Legion instead, and when NPO and allies came to their defense (if they had come to their defense since NPO leadership thought we were trying to "drag" them into war [by the way no, if we want you in war, we attack you, as I think you see now]) and then what? Would Legion still have locked 99% of their NS into peace mode and disengagement and left everyone to do their fighting? What's your MDP worth, Legion?

I will give you some legitimate respect, NPO. You've done some fighting. There are plenty of targets for me at my range among your ranks. You've lost half your NS over the course of the war and you didn't do that hiding in peace mode. It might even be more accurate to say that the delegation you have hiding in peace mode is the part of your contingent that is cowardly, not that the entirety of you is cowardly. Granted, that's an extremely large percentage of your overall strength, so the point must still stand.

The primary front that we've been engaged on this entire conflict though is a war of slander. We have never wavered on our intent, dedication, purpose in this war. Doomhouse served NPO with a valid declaration of war, pursued it to its end with full commitment and resources, and defended itself against an onslaught of comers as a result. Our coalition and our alliances have accepted the consequences of their actions from day one. We all knew the risks and responsibilities and we have fulfilled them and are emerging victorious. Your allies are not with you, and join you in making excuses. While you sit and wonder and complain why Doomhouse could have possibly done this to you, your allies sit in the backfield, some fighting, some not, and all of them going 'Man, that sucks, those guys sure are bullying you' and not living up to the full nature of the agreement that they made. The MDP looks great on paper, until no one is there fighting for it.

Twelve alliances jumped in on GOONS in honor of various defensive or offensive agreements, be it for NPO or their allies. Those of you who have fought and fought well, you have been logistically and financially left high and dry by your allies. Those of you who have not dedicated yourselves to the fight, have joined NPO's upper remaining echelon in abandoning them.

Our cause is solid. Our determination is solid. Our support for one another is solid.

You have lost this war. This is the truth of things right now. Accept it and negotiate terms with us.

Source: A Statement from Doomhouse

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This is the sort of constructive post I'm looking for.

Okay that given, I'm of the opinion that Doomhouse is not threatened by a year long trench war. Our allies' income exceeds their expenses, we're growing at an absurd rate, and at this rate, NPO and friends will become essentially a permanent tech-raid. Obviously, my opinion is a little biased by my successes since the creation of my nation, and I don't have any inside info whatsoever what our allies income actually is to say for sure whether or not we can be sustained indefinitely in such a manner as I claim. I believe, however, that what we're going to see as this conflict progresses is a plateau in the losses that we are taking, which is already possibly starting to occur, and a shift of our resource pooling and slot efficiency to mutual exchange. Once we no longer need full aid bombs to maintain our wars, slots are freed up for tech exchanges, further decreasing ally outgoing losses and easing morale by supplementing their aid with a tangible reward as we're able to start sending tech in exchange.

That's a pretty huge best case scenario though.

Yes, we'll eventually run out of money to keep your lower tier in wars and out of tech deals. It won't be a permatech raid though, because you won't be able to keep us at war in game with the number of small nations you have available. NPO and friends weren't able to do it and they had a lot more nations than FAN did. People who get trapped out of peacemode will be picked clean after a few rounds anyway. Personally, if I got caught out of peacemode with no money, I would send all my tech away to my friends already there. Other than that, I don't see anything to disagree with. Once the fighting wraps up, the political game will heat up.

The stat damage has pretty much plateaued already, except for NoR and us. They're probably moving nations around different AA's though.

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Reparations existed in real life from the moment of the conception of nations until the end of World War II.

Also, DH is literally Hitler.

Godwin's Law. I'm going to take a nap till update.

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If that's what you truly believe, that I can at least understand the logic behind it. I don't believe that is Doom House's leadership's view, but eh, your brain.

This seems a little silly though. You don't want to surrender/admit defeat because it'll spawn a long thread? That's just petty.

if DH did not have that line of thought, why did they post that exact line of thought in their DoW? can't say that this line of thought is not true, since there is a DH DoW on NPO with that exact line of thought used.

though i do agree that not wanting to surrender or admit defeat because it will spawn a long thread is stupid.

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if DH did not have that line of thought, why did they post that exact line of thought in their DoW? can't say that this line of thought is not true, since there is a DH DoW on NPO with that exact line of thought used.

The DoW said absolutely nothing about the future beyond this war. Sure you can divine whatever meanings you want from it, but the fact is the only people saying that DH will come after NPO again aren't in DH.

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it did not have to. your line of thought was quite obvious. "NPO THREAT!!!!!!!!!!! MUST DESTROY THEM WHENEVER THEY ARE A THREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

and if many people outside of DH think this, then the perception is quite real. DH saying it is not real, when not make it go away. i get ya'll don't care much about PR and all that but neither did NPO and look where that got them. maybe ya'll should actually learn from the past instead of simply repeating it.

if you want people to believe DH is as honorable and trustworthy as the Ardus thread is attempting to do, don't pull !@#$ like the idiotic reparations GOONS are pulling on alliances defending an ally. or don't attack an alliance out of the blue for no friggin reason.

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Yes, we'll eventually run out of money to keep your lower tier in wars and out of tech deals. It won't be a permatech raid though, because you won't be able to keep us at war in game with the number of small nations you have available. NPO and friends weren't able to do it and they had a lot more nations than FAN did. People who get trapped out of peacemode will be picked clean after a few rounds anyway. Personally, if I got caught out of peacemode with no money, I would send all my tech away to my friends already there. Other than that, I don't see anything to disagree with. Once the fighting wraps up, the political game will heat up.

I've already noticed people doing this. You're probably on to something.

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it did not have to. your line of thought was quite obvious. "NPO THREAT!!!!!!!!!!! MUST DESTROY THEM WHENEVER THEY ARE A THREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

and if many people outside of DH think this, then the perception is quite real. DH saying it is not real, when not make it go away. i get ya'll don't care much about PR and all that but neither did NPO and look where that got them. maybe ya'll should actually learn from the past instead of simply repeating it.

if you want people to believe DH is as honorable and trustworthy as the Ardus thread is attempting to do, don't pull !@#$ like the idiotic reparations GOONS are pulling on alliances defending an ally. or don't attack an alliance out of the blue for no friggin reason.

Your conclusion does not follow from your premises. DH certainly acknowledged that NPO was a threat and we acted to neutralize that threat to our security. It one, does not follow that we will follow that same path that NPO did in the past, and it certainly doesn't follow from our terms and reparations that we are dishonorable about our promises and untrustworthy. This entire war we have done precisely as we promised we would do from the beginning. Attack, win, and adjudicate strategically and responsibly after the fact.

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why did they post that exact line of thought in their DoW?

The DoW said absolutely nothing about the future beyond this war.

it did not have to. your line of thought was quite obvious. "NPO THREAT!!!!!!!!!!! MUST DESTROY THEM WHENEVER THEY ARE A THREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Sorry, I don't feel like debating with a moving target.

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There are five parts of war:

1: Having a valid reason for war

2: Having the initial firepower

3: Being able to maintain the firepower

4: Being logical

5: Patience

Lets see...

1: Doomhouse's only CB for its war against NPO was either paranoia, simple hatred, or both. Those two are not valid CB, and I'm very sure you and your buddies would agree with me when YOUR alliance and YOUR allies are attacked without a warning for; "Cuz we're afraid you're going to jump into the meat grinder, and we hate you, so screw you. That's why!"

No points.

2: Check.

Plus one point.

3: You have control over the upper tier, good for you. However, do you have control over the middle and lower tier? I don't think so. Even if we don't have control over the upper tier, we can still bring in new recruits. You? No amount of aid is going to save your new blood from getting triple-teamed, and they can't send any tech to your upper tier fighters if their aid slots are full. No alliance will survive without recruits for long.

No points.

4: This is subject to many different interpretations, though sparking a major war without any diplomacy is moronic. You didn't bother to contact NPO.

No points.

5: Your alliance's and allies' members had repeatedly demanded NPO and its allies to let their upper tier fighters out of PM and even threw some insults around and made an announcement. If you don't have the will to stick around, you are not ready for war.

No points.

1/5 points=Unlikely chance of winning the war for your side.

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Your conclusion does not follow from your premises. DH certainly acknowledged that NPO was a threat and we acted to neutralize that threat to our security. It one, does not follow that we will follow that same path that NPO did in the past, and it certainly doesn't follow from our terms and reparations that we are dishonorable about our promises and untrustworthy. This entire war we have done precisely as we promised we would do from the beginning. Attack, win, and adjudicate strategically and responsibly after the fact.

my conclusion certainly follows my premise. NPO used that same line of "threat to our security" on almost all their wars. your terms suck and are hegemonic aka NPO did them first and now you are using them. i have showed in the OWF thread of the same name the amount of lying done by MK/DH which shows you are untrustworthy.

This entire war based on who? From what i saw of an ex-gov Spartan- DH told PB that the war was to ensure NPO did not hit PB while PB was hitting Polaris. that war ended, which means this one should have.

That being said, NPO can no longer be seen as a threat since they have no reason to war you guys unless you pull some ridiculous !@#$ like this. the war is over with, which means NPO has no reason to attempt to hit DH later on. the fact that you continue to state NPO is a threat is ridiculous.

MK/Umbrella have 42 nations over 100k NPO has 9. MK/Umbrella have 70 nations over 60k-99k. NPO has 28. yes, NPO is such a scary threat. sorry, all your reasons for continuing this war is gone. the truth is, you want to destroy NPO. that is different than just getting rid of the threat. the threat is already gone.

but please continue the lies.

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Sorry, I don't feel like debating with a moving target.

right. you saw NPO as a threat and you aggressively attacked them. so the thinking is quite linear. the next time you see NPO as a threat you will aggressively attack them. i am not moving at all. i am using logical deduction. you are using the denial tactic and then a deflection because you lack any argument that can actually refute my logical deduction.

i could also go into what actually constitutes a threat being subjective. which means a threat to DH could be NPO having 100 nukes or having 100k tech or some such nonsense.

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right. you saw NPO as a threat and you aggressively attacked them. so the thinking is quite linear. the next time you see NPO as a threat you will aggressively attack them. i am not moving at all. i am using logical deduction. you are using the denial tactic and then a deflection because you lack any argument that can actually refute my logical deduction.

i could also go into what actually constitutes a threat being subjective. which means a threat to DH could be NPO having 100 nukes or having 100k tech or some such nonsense.

You are right about one thing. What each person considers a threat is certainly subjective to the individual or third party making the assessment.

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I love how you guys think your "winning" or that you have won already. You are far from it, just because we don't fight where you would be instantly winning, does not mean you are winning. I would argue that we are actually winning the lower-mid tier wars so far, contrary to what all the big bored tech heavy umbrella and MK guys think. (most of the big guys are the vocal ones on these boards)

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Obviously, my opinion is a little biased by my successes since the creation of my nation, and I don't have any inside info whatsoever what our allies income actually is to say for sure whether or not we can be sustained indefinitely in such a manner as I claim.

My nation is about 110K. One days collection is enough to aid 6 nations with FACs. Basically, even with bills, it's a pretty negligible % of their profits to fund 6 FAC nations.

Alliances that know what they are doing (which I would certainly include TOP, Umbrella and MK amongst the small group I am discussing) can keep that up forever.

If it was possible, most of Umbrella's nations could probably send 9-12 million per day and STILL increase the size of their warchests.

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Assume for the moment that I really don't care if we have a valid CB or not. I'm not goons gov and ergo my opinion doesn't reflect that of our decision making process, but I'm making so much money off of this war it's ridiculous. I come out of every single war so far richer than I went into it, and the way NPO cries like children about what's not fair or right or justice or whatever in the world it is you guys try to appeal to to get the pity of everyone else or some sort of self-righteous rise for yourselves feeds my very bare soul.

This is not some other realm. Lives are not lost in conflicts, and the fate of nations is an ebb and flow. Just War Theory as you want to seem to subtly self-define it as this act of aggression between Doomhouse and NPO means precisely nothing. We're aggressors. We're attacking because it is in our best interest to do so. There's legitimate political reasons, but there's also the factor that we really just want to.

You can fight or you can not, but we're taking your tech one way or another. Now put on your big girl panties and either talk strategy and actual theory or else leave it be. If you're looking for justifications so you can sleep better at night, you won't get them from me.

Do you hate us? Boy that must make life difficult for you.

LOL! Since you couldn't address the fact that every official announcement your side makes spirals into chaos, you jump on a new tack. This has been your side's modus operandi. It's also called Red Herring. You act like some Washington hack who when asked a direct question goes instantly back to the talking points you prefer.

Since the Washington hacks can't seem to get any respect from that methodology what makes you think you can instead.

Quite frankly, we simply don't care about your talking points. Old news. I think you just keep trying in hopes we might actually give you back our strategic thinking. Sorry, we understand OpSec and don't shout our strategy from every street corner and tell every alliance n00b the plan. Our troops are mature enough to understand they don't get to learn the whole story. But it seems that your side must resort to crowing to all of Bob your intentions. Methinks it is like what Stormsend leaked out. You have to keep your masses somehow under control or they will grow restless.

But since you are desperate for anything to latch onto, how about something obvious?

You keep claiming the high ground assures victory. But in the end the key to long term victory is population count. If our side completely owns the lower ranks then new nations have only one alternative in order to survive. Join us. Your new guys you keep raving about since the war began? Not counting the convenient fact some of them are simply rerolls we already killed once, they are DOA anyway. Send them all the money you want. They won't grow or send you tech because we will keep crushing them back to first week n00b status the moment they try to boost. We will hold that lower area as our own and our n00bs will be the only ones with the chance to keep playing. Yes, it make take just about forever for us to rise up our masses to your upper levels, but you've already been effectively contained. Your upper nations are a fixed number facing natural attrition from RL and boredom. We keep all the new blood. You might own the "now", but our strategy assures us the future. Cut you off from new blood and watch you wither on the vine. Yes, you might have the time to have your toe tags engraved, embroidered, and gilded, but you'll still be wearing them if you don't get control of the low ranges again.

Buckle up! It's going to be a loooooong ride.

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Alliances that know what they are doing (which I would certainly include TOP, Umbrella and MK amongst the small group I am discussing) can keep that up forever.

If it was possible, most of Umbrella's nations could probably send 9-12 million per day and STILL increase the size of their warchests.

But you can't and you know it. Slots. Max 18 slots a month. N00bs rarely have FAC's. So you will never cross more than 2M per day average aid.

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But you can't and you know it. Slots. Max 18 slots a month. N00bs rarely have FAC's. So you will never cross more than 2M per day average aid.

His comment was not knowing whether or not his allies' income would allow for them to continue to aid at the current rate. I merely expanded upon it.

Answer: They can continue this forever.

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LOL! Since you couldn't address the fact that every official announcement your side makes spirals into chaos, you jump on a new tack. This has been your side's modus operandi. It's also called Red Herring. You act like some Washington hack who when asked a direct question goes instantly back to the talking points you prefer.

Since the Washington hacks can't seem to get any respect from that methodology what makes you think you can instead.

Quite frankly, we simply don't care about your talking points. Old news. I think you just keep trying in hopes we might actually give you back our strategic thinking. Sorry, we understand OpSec and don't shout our strategy from every street corner and tell every alliance n00b the plan. Our troops are mature enough to understand they don't get to learn the whole story. But it seems that your side must resort to crowing to all of Bob your intentions. Methinks it is like what Stormsend leaked out. You have to keep your masses somehow under control or they will grow restless.

But since you are desperate for anything to latch onto, how about something obvious?

You keep claiming the high ground assures victory. But in the end the key to long term victory is population count. If our side completely owns the lower ranks then new nations have only one alternative in order to survive. Join us. Your new guys you keep raving about since the war began? Not counting the convenient fact some of them are simply rerolls we already killed once, they are DOA anyway. Send them all the money you want. They won't grow or send you tech because we will keep crushing them back to first week n00b status the moment they try to boost. We will hold that lower area as our own and our n00bs will be the only ones with the chance to keep playing. Yes, it make take just about forever for us to rise up our masses to your upper levels, but you've already been effectively contained. Your upper nations are a fixed number facing natural attrition from RL and boredom. We keep all the new blood. You might own the "now", but our strategy assures us the future. Cut you off from new blood and watch you wither on the vine. Yes, you might have the time to have your toe tags engraved, embroidered, and gilded, but you'll still be wearing them if you don't get control of the low ranges again.

Buckle up! It's going to be a loooooong ride.

I like it :ehm:

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His comment was not knowing whether or not his allies' income would allow for them to continue to aid at the current rate. I merely expanded upon it.

Answer: They can continue this forever.

We already knew that your side could generate enough income from the beginning. You act like we have no clue how much a big nation earns. Outside of peace mode I net over 20 million after paying my bills. I could send out 300M a month if I had the slots and still have enough to buy myself something shiny. So please don't act you your are enlightening the ignorant.

We knew from the beginning the slots were the choke point. GA's can easily rake in over 2 million a day. So by the numbers we can steal more than you can send out.

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We already knew that your side could generate enough income from the beginning. You act like we have no clue how much a big nation earns. Outside of peace mode I net over 20 million after paying my bills. I could send out 300M a month if I had the slots and still have enough to buy myself something shiny. So please don't act you your are enlightening the ignorant.

We knew from the beginning the slots were the choke point. GA's can easily rake in over 2 million a day. So by the numbers we can steal more than you can send out.

He posed a question, I answered it. Unbunch your panties, princess.

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He posed a question, I answered it. Unbunch your panties, princess.

You weren't trying to be helpful. You were trying to generate more propaganda spin. But jumping to ad hominem means you get to be WINNING! your responses now, right?

Putz.

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Just a question for those who support DH's position...

Do you support "Innocent Until Proven Guilty"? Or "Guilty Until Proven Innocent"?

Please do not ignore my question, or I will repeat it until I get a clear answer.

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You weren't trying to be helpful. You were trying to generate more propaganda spin. But jumping to ad hominem means you get to be WINNING! your responses now, right?

Putz.

Facts are now spin? Interesting take. Since you confirmed my answer, I'm sure DH enjoys the propaganda you've obviously provided.

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