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Hail the Heroes of Pacifica!


Ashoka the Great

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Let me begin by explaining the circumstances surrounding the agreement Nordreich signed with World Federation. Many have commented on its strange wording and how, upon examination, it leaves Nordreich with 'interesting' options.

First, it is true that we never really considered that conflict to be 'our' war. While we did not show any hesitation with respect to supporting Nueva Vida through activation of the 'oA' portion of our treaty, from almost the beginning of our intervention it was clear that Nueva Vida felt much as we did. The reality is that enthusiasm for any war is less than total when one's alliance is the fourth or fifth link on a very long chain.

Two days before our agreement with wF was reached, we entered into a ceasefire agreement pending what we expected to be reasonably simple negotiations.

We tried very hard to get peace for that entire front, but one alliance whom I shall not name dug in its heels so hard that progress for the group as a whole was impossible. Nueva Vida gave us their blessing to exit the conflict along with World Federation. That is why in the wF/NoR thread one did not see any complaints coming from Nueva Vida.

It should be noted that while Nordreich was preparing to exit one war, we were being invited to take part in another.

It is no secret that Nordreich considers the Federation of Armed Nations to be among our best friends. People on both sides have worked very hard over the last couple of years to overcome past suspicions and to build a genuine relationship between our two alliances. The astute will recall that in the last major conflict, our support for FAN was listed among the reasons we went to war with Valhalla.

Therefore it should come as no surprise that our friends in the Federation of Armed Nations asked if we would honor the 'oA' part of our gentlemen's agreement and assist somewhere on the ever-widening front in the war against the New Pacific Order. Not being the sort to turn our backs on our friends, we agreed to assist somewhere on that front within 5-7 days of our agreement with World Federation.

That was nearly three weeks ago.

I should note that while we were still working out details with World Federation, most if not all of the leadership of Doomhouse, Pandora's Box and their allies were very much aware of our intentions. Nordreich's leadership was in discussions with several alliances with respect to where we could best make use of our modest war machine.

As is true with any alliance, we counted on the support of at least some of our allies in any conflict. Nueva Vida was 'busy', so to speak. The same was true of Ragnarok. Valhalla had little interest in either of the wars involving the Orders. This left a rather short list of allies, including our friends in The Dark Templar.

Few are aware of the ties that bind The Dark Templar and Nordreich. Myworld and his alliance sheltered many Nordreich members who were re-establishing their presence on Planet Bob in the months before Nordreich's reformation in May 2009. We owe them a blood debt; one that can never be repaid in full. This will help to explain why, when Nordreich was given the honor of submitting three flags for use by all nations, one of those we chose was that of The Dark Templar.

And so we hoped that our friends would be given the opportunity to fight by our side once again.

However, those who hate Nordreich had other plans.

The Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations demanded 40,000 tech from The Dark Templar as their condition for ending the war. Myworld and the rest of The Dark Templar were shocked. Why should CSN make such exorbitant demands? Why were they attempting to extort DT?

I attempted to reason with Xiphosis, who is now acknowledged as the author of those ludicrous terms. My efforts were to no avail. His argument boiled down to "Might makes right" and "To the victors go the spoils." No matter how well he dressed up this nonsense, the stench gave it away for the garbage it was and remains.

And yes, he was already fully aware of Nordreich's intention to stand with FAN.

As one might well imagine, this did not go down well with Nordreich's government. As a former Kaiser, as someone who by virtue of past service continues to enjoy some access to the hallowed halls of government, I said the following:

This is clearly an attempt -- by individuals hostile to Nordreich -- to undermine our ability to defend ourselves from counter-attacks if we enter this war. We cannot tolerate this kind of double-dealing, and frankly we cannot understand why other alliances involved in this conflict will put up with it.

We are not their meatshields. We will not expose ourselves to die when we have friends who would be more than willing to defend us. The only people who would gain from such an occurrence are those who hate us; those who, incidentally, would be fighting alongside us in this conflict.

Until DT is given peace with no terms, Nordreich cannot enter this war.

Others had already made this point. And it has become Nordreich's policy with respect to the DT/CSN affair.

We made our position known to FAN. Of course they were unhappy, but as an honorable alliance they understood our dilemma. They offered their diplomatic assistance with respect to working the matter out. Other alliances -- including those with whom Nordreich has no treaties whatsoever -- also sent representatives to speak with CSN and their GODly puppetmaster.

Perhaps I should end that part of the narrative here, since it is obvious how well that worked.

We agreed to stay out of the VE-NpO War on the understanding that our friends would be allowed to exit in a timely manner as well. At the end of the day, all I can say is that we were deceived. But it was not only we who were deceived. The member alliances of Doomhouse, the Federation of Armed Nations....indeed, anyone fighting on that side of the war against the NPO was betrayed.

This has become something of an open secret, so I am here today to lay the entire matter before the handful of people who are unaware of this.

The Doomhouse-NPO War has turned into something of a stalemate. Unless something dramatic happens, it is unlikely that there will be peace for a very, very long time.

Through their anger and short-sightedness, Xiphosis and CSN have managed to keep at least 8,000,000 NS from entering the war.

We have now reached the point where damn-near everyone involved knows what Nordreich's plans were. Nearly every alliance engaged against the New Pacific Order or its allies is aware of this. I am also personally aware that some on the NPO's side know about this as well. So it's for the best that I lay it all on the table, in order to quash whispered rumors with stated facts.

We are all witness to one of the most peculiar events I have ever seen.

Blinded by anger and unable to see 'the big picture' even if it were painted on the side of a barn, Xiphosis and his stooges are doing more to materially aid the NPO than they would by declaring war on Pacifica's opponents. Should there ever be a museum dedicated to the idea of "Unintended Consequences" then I do believe we have found something worthy of permanent display.

And so, gentle reader, I ask that you join me in a toast.

All Hail Xiphosis!

All Hail the Global Order of Darkness!

All Hail the Commonwealth of Sovereign Nations!

Honor and Glory to These And All Heroes of Pacifica!

For those with short attention spans, a tl;dr:

Dear FAN, Doomhouse and Friends:

I guess there's nothing left to say but "Have a good war," because Nordreich is going back to nation-building.

I am genuinely sorry that we couldn't lend a hand, but people who pretend to be your friends had other ideas. Thank you to those of you who tried to put an end to this nonsense. We really do appreciate it.

By now this story has become so widely known that any element of surprise is long gone.

We had looked forward to forging new friendships through shared battles. Instead, we are content to forge them by helping to re-build you once this war has ended. When things wrap up, we will be more than happy to help with your re-building efforts. This offer is extended to all of you, and not merely to our good friends in FAN. We owe you that much for your recent efforts on our behalf. I am deeply sorry that said efforts were an exercise in futility.

Perhaps the time will come when you feel the need to settle accounts once again. Some of you have already mentioned this to me in recent days. Merely name the time and place, and we will be there.

Until that day arrives, know that we continue to stand by you in spirit and are committed to your post-war reconstruction.

With our very best wishes,

Nordreich

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I neglected to mention that going to war against the NPO wasn't really 'our' war, either. Many in NoR supported it, a few supported it with reservations and a third group didn't like the idea very much at all.

While going to war for a reason of 'just because' isn't necessarily something I support, I do believe in honoring allies' requests insofar as that is possible.

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I neglected to mention that going to war against the NPO wasn't really 'our' war, either. Many in NoR supported it, a few supported it with reservations and a third group didn't like the idea very much at all.

While going to war for a reason of 'just because' isn't necessarily something I support, I do believe in honoring allies' requests insofar as that is possible.

FAN may be your gentleman's agreement ally but they don't need your help.

Your help is best suited in assisting Dark Templar who you yourself said is being extorted.

Joining the war for FAN is easy so that is where you would like to go in. DT on the other hand is a difficult front and you will avoid it at all costs.

Not impressed by Nordreich so far, especially when you all in effect accepted terms from World Federation to get out of a front that you left your ally still in. No matter the "blessing", you don't leave an ally at war. You left NV, doing nothing for DT, and want to join the easy side with FAN. Not impressed with Nordreich at all.

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FAN may be your gentleman's agreement ally but they don't need your help.

Your help is best suited in assisting Dark Templar who you yourself said is being extorted.

Joining the war for FAN is easy so that is where you would like to go in. DT on the other hand is a difficult front and you will avoid it at all costs.

Not impressed by Nordreich so far, especially when you all in effect accepted terms from World Federation to get out of a front that you left your ally still in. No matter the "blessing", you don't leave an ally at war. You left NV, doing nothing for DT, and want to join the easy side with FAN. Not impressed with Nordreich at all.

You failed reading comprehension didn't you?

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FAN may be your gentleman's agreement ally but they don't need your help.

Your help is best suited in assisting Dark Templar who you yourself said is being extorted.

Joining the war for FAN is easy so that is where you would like to go in. DT on the other hand is a difficult front and you will avoid it at all costs.

Not impressed by Nordreich so far, especially when you all in effect accepted terms from World Federation to get out of a front that you left your ally still in. No matter the "blessing", you don't leave an ally at war. You left NV, doing nothing for DT, and want to join the easy side with FAN. Not impressed with Nordreich at all.

NoR didn't enter for DT or even on the same front, sugarbutt.

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FAN may be your gentleman's agreement ally but they don't need your help.

Your help is best suited in assisting Dark Templar who you yourself said is being extorted.

Joining the war for FAN is easy so that is where you would like to go in. DT on the other hand is a difficult front and you will avoid it at all costs.

Not impressed by Nordreich so far, especially when you all in effect accepted terms from World Federation to get out of a front that you left your ally still in. No matter the "blessing", you don't leave an ally at war. You left NV, doing nothing for DT, and want to join the easy side with FAN. Not impressed with Nordreich at all.

NoR may not like me or my alliance very much. In fact, I'm pretty sure they hate us. But even I can see this is a load of crock, what you're saying. NoR ain't a bunch of infra huggers. Bah, they more than most understand the concept of honor. NoR is one of only a handful of alliances that I genuinely respect.

And while of course I'd prefer that they not enter against our side, if they did so to help a friend I could understand that.

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NoR didn't enter for DT or even on the same front, sugarbutt.

Exactly. Ashoka speaks of the debt Nordreich's members have to DT in assisting with their reformation but will not enter to the war to help DT. I'm sure the excuse is that DT has not asked for assistance. How convenient. It's convenient that these guy's also got NV's blessing to get out and took it.

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Exactly. Ashoka speaks of the debt Nordreich's members have to DT in assisting with their reformation but will not enter to the war to help DT. I'm sure the excuse is that DT has not asked for assistance. How convenient. It's convenient that these guy's also got NV's blessing to get out and took it.

You must really like talking out of your behind.

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excellent read, well presented and coherent, void of emotion until the end. Really nice summation and saves hours of sitting on IRC pikcing up the bits and pieces from ancient connections.

cheers

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Exactly. Ashoka speaks of the debt Nordreich's members have to DT in assisting with their reformation but will not enter to the war to help DT. I'm sure the excuse is that DT has not asked for assistance. How convenient. It's convenient that these guy's also got NV's blessing to get out and took it.

Ultimately, the decision whether or not to re-enter the war was a matter between DT's government and ours. It was never my decision to make, as I have been out of government for some time. (Do I advise? Not really. I offer occasional opinions but that's hardly the same thing. Except at times of crisis or concern, I generally ignore what's happening with the government.)

Would we have gone in had DT asked? I believe we would have. Did DT ask? No, they quite pointedly asked us not to get involved.

I'm not happy about it and yes, I have taken others to task for this in the past. ('Others' including your own alliance, btw.) Having now been put in that kind of situation, I rather suspect I will be more understanding of it in the future. It's not a very pleasant role to play.

Live and learn and all that.

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I fail to see why NoR would think that DT would be in any position to "defend" them after leaving this war--even if they had been able to leave a week ago--or, indeed, why NoR would count on any of its allies to ride to its defense if it attacked NPO based on an unwritten "gentlemen's agreement." If NoR wants to hop on the bandwagon why not just do it?

Even further, who does NoR expect to need defending from? Every alliance that is going to be fighting on the NPO front is already deployed. There's no one to counter NoR.

You might have been/might feel played by the aggressors on the Viridian front, but you would have been just as played by FAN and Doomhouse, the only reason they would need you is to take a small amount of pressure off themselves in their war of election and unwarranted aggression. I'm frankly more disappointed in NoR than I ever thought imaginable over the fact that you left a war where your allies actually need you and are actually at war for a reason and are still at war so you could go join a mass techraid in a daisyfield.

And now that you have been utterly duped, your response is.......whoops lol we'll send you some money later. Really?

Sorry, not impressed. Other than to counter claims that NoR offered to attack NPO in exchange for DT peace, I don't even see why you would make all this public, it just makes NoR look like it's in over its head in politics and war. And that pains me to see, really pains me to see and to say, about an alliance I had a lot of respect for but was apparently seeing through rose glasses.

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Dear SF,

In case you're wondering why we chose to keep connections with PB instead of you guys, it's because we knew you were going to start pulling !@#$ like this.

I'm glad to see a member of MK finally take a public stand against punitive reps on defensive fronts.

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I hope the Doomhouse-NPO war ends badly for NPO, I really do, but I don't see where it's CSN's responsibility to make that happen. I've seen some good arguments in favor of CSN dropping the reps, I will admit, but this is probably the worst one.

Edit: I feel I should expand on this more. Doomhouse and FAN started a war without provocation. That's full and well their right as sovereign alliances, and given who they're targeting I'm happy enough that they're doing it but for them to expect an alliance who they're not even indirectly allied to by less than three chains to change their policy to help their war effort is ludicrous. If they couldn't win the war with the forces they have available, they shouldn't have started it.

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This still doesn't explain why NoR made any concession to wF whatsoever. I'd think a simple "We're going stop destroying you now" would've been fine and would've left you with a lot more options that obviously would come in handy right now.

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This still doesn't explain why NoR made any concession to wF whatsoever. I'd think a simple "We're going stop destroying you now" would've been fine and would've left you with a lot more options that obviously would come in handy right now.

What's anyone going to do about it if NoR changes their mind about the terms now that it's clear they were negotiated in bad faith? Everyone is at war. You think WF wants round two? Hah.

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I fail to see why NoR would think that DT would be in any position to "defend" them after leaving this war--even if they had been able to leave a week ago--or, indeed, why NoR would count on any of its allies to ride to its defense if it attacked NPO based on an unwritten "gentlemen's agreement." If NoR wants to hop on the bandwagon why not just do it?

Even further, who does NoR expect to need defending from? Every alliance that is going to be fighting on the NPO front is already deployed. There's no one to counter NoR.

You might have been/might feel played by the aggressors on the Viridian front, but you would have been just as played by FAN and Doomhouse, the only reason they would need you is to take a small amount of pressure off themselves in their war of election and unwarranted aggression. I'm frankly more disappointed in NoR than I ever thought imaginable over the fact that you left a war where your allies actually need you and are actually at war for a reason and are still at war so you could go join a mass techraid in a daisyfield.

And now that you have been utterly duped, your response is.......whoops lol we'll send you some money later. Really?

Sorry, not impressed. Other than to counter claims that NoR offered to attack NPO in exchange for DT peace, I don't even see why you would make all this public, it just makes NoR look like it's in over its head in politics and war. And that pains me to see, really pains me to see and to say, about an alliance I had a lot of respect for but was apparently seeing through rose glasses.

While I haven't had the deep respect for NoR that you had, your assessment of the situation is an accurate reflection of my opinion on this matter.

What I did have for NoR, was something that could have grown into respect. That died with the revelations made here.

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I hope the Doomhouse-NPO war ends badly for NPO, I really do, but I don't see where it's CSN's responsibility to make that happen. I've seen some good arguments in favor of CSN dropping the reps, I will admit, but this is probably the worst one.

Edit: I feel I should expand on this more. Doomhouse and FAN started a war without provocation. That's full and well their right as sovereign alliances, and given who they're targeting I'm happy enough that they're doing it but for them to expect an alliance who they're not even indirectly allied to by less than three chains to change their policy to help their war effort is ludicrous. If they couldn't win the war with the forces they have available, they shouldn't have started it.

Well, they do have an interest to a degree in seeing NPO destroyed. Their allies do as well, Xiphosis especially. That doesn't mean it should determine their issues with DT entirely, but it must be admitted it's not something they have zero interest in. I've been wanting to see a solution worked out that CSN could be happy with it. I know they're under a lot of pressure in general. Though, it seems if NoR isn't entering regardless of DT getting peace at this point, it's kind of moot and gives them even less incentive. It sucks and I was looking forward to posting "Heja Nordreich!" in the DoW, but I guess it's not happening. I think progress could have been made at the negotiating table.

It's really not so much we can't win. Everyone knew this would be a long and drawn out battle. We're outnumbered in the lower tiers and that's where the stalemate is taking place. In the past, there have been similar situations and it ultimately comes down to the resolve of the alliances involved to keep going despite that. Can the NPO and its allies stay in peace mode forever or until we get tired of keeping the war up(we have no real incentive to end it any time soon) especially when more forces will be freed up to fight them and their allies as fronts close?

Maybe I'll write my own blog with regards to the "war without provocation" crap as it hasn't been adequately addressed.

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Well... Should I be thanking Xiph for his foresight then? :awesome:

Didn't particularly like fighting Nordreich before, and now that I'm pretty much over my grudge against NV I see no benefit to fighting your allies either.

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I've seen some good arguments in favor of CSN dropping the reps, I will admit, but this is probably the worst one.

Please point me to where I am using this as an attempt to do what you're suggesting. This is an exposition on unintended consequences, something you may wish to think about in the future.

....I don't even see why you would make all this public, it just makes NoR look like it's in over its head in politics and war.

Ever get tired of saying the same thing to folks over and over and over? I know you do. Well, so do I. But now I have a handy link that I may point people toward, thus saving my beleaguered carpal tunnels that they may die another day.

You (and HoT as well) seem to be mistaking this for one of those tired "OWF plea for help" threads. It's not that at all. The reason I posted this in my blog rather than on the OWF is that posts in the former have a shorter shelf life. Once this is bumped off of page one it will quickly be forgotten by everyone except for the parties directly involved.

As for the SuperFriends bloc (except for Ragnarok, who are innocent in this mess) I doubt they have very much to worry about. With respect to the NPO war, yes, they have failed to see the big picture. But in the even grander scheme of things, this is perhaps a minor 'blip' on history's radar.

While it is true that Xiph/GOD/CSN have gone out of their way to antagonize/dismiss Doomhouse, FAN, TOP and others fighting the NPO, do they really have anything to fear in the long-term? The jury is still out. I'm sure that the NPO's adversaris are more than willing to adopt a "forgive and forget" attitude. They don't strike me as the kind of folks to harbor simmering grudges and then lash out when they have collectively grown angry enough.

Well... Should I be thanking Xiph for his foresight then?

Apart from "literally writing" the terms in question, Xiphosis is hardly central to this incident.

Also, I have a bridge for sale that may interest you.

This still doesn't explain why NoR made any concession to wF whatsoever. I'd think a simple "We're going stop destroying you now" would've been fine and would've left you with a lot more options that obviously would come in handy right now.

What we learned from the wF-authored thread about the end of our war is that in the future we are going to insist on writing any OP that directly concerns NoR, unless its content and presentation is vetted by us first.

As far as options go, we have none at this point because of our ally's request, not because of any 'no re-entry' clause.

You see, various CSN spokespeople have confirmed that their punitive terms no longer represent their opposition to Optional Defense arrangements. The continuing war is now about DT being rude to CSN and saying mean things about them in public. It has taken on a qualitative difference, rather like the way the Gramlins/IRON 'thing' did after a while.

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