Goose Poop

Sure I'll explain. LoSS had already been working on terms on their other front dealing with TIO, and we knew that they were getting ready to get out in the next day or 2. So we went to CSN to start those talks ourselves and get some terms setup so when all of the sides had their agreements in place then all the wars would end shortly there of.

No. You came to get peace for you and FHU. You mentioned nothing of LoSS, and infact admitted to coming to us to get peace without them.

[17:28] <@TiTaN[DT]> We, at DT, feel like this war has gone on for too long. While we at DT are coordinated, LoSS has 0 coordination. We are looking to get peace

[17:28] <Liz[CSN|MoFA]> On behalf of the freaky fish people too?

[17:29] <Liz[CSN|MoFA]> Or just DT?

[17:29] <@TiTaN[DT]> FHU, aslo

[17:29] <Liz[CSN|MoFA]> Alright. I feel like this is something that we can deal with. Definitely.

[17:29] <Liz[CSN|MoFA]> We like DT. Didn't expect ya'll to come in on LoSS' behalf tbh

[17:29] <@TiTaN[DT]> They asked for our help lol

[17:30] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Back Yeah we try to be unpredictable.

[17:30] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]>

[17:30] <Hetman[Legacy]> I am in agreement with Liz.

And as for your point of taking your offer of the table: We really don't care. You're the ones surrendering, not us. We've tried negotiating with you and it doesn't work. You don't get to dictate the terms. When you get that through your head, come talk to us. Until then, have a happy day! <3

Sorry no I didn't threaten to ZI anyone. If one of the members did that is his right to do so. It's a game and people can attempt to ZI people. We have no ZI list or care to carry one. So even when the war is over and the ZI didn't happen then well I guess people didn't do a good enough job and the guy fighting against it did a great job in doing so. And people go their merry way.

Actually, the words used were "We're going to ZI him after the war even if he had an app". Like I said, it didn't come from you, but it came from your member.

Oh, and let's talk about ghosts.

Have you used ghosts, DT? I know the line your giving your members is that we're cheating and various other nonsense. I've found 5 ghosts in your alliance today. Out of 50 nations. They either ghosted another AA or they are ghosting yours.

The difference between us and you is that our tactics are successful. Every time someone changes to your AA we devastate them. I suggest you attempt to do the same. That's called prosecuting a war.

Example:

http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display_charts.asp?Nation_ID=292253

That's what we do when someone sits in symphony and then jumps into your AA and jumps on a couple of our members. We don't whine and complain and say it isn't fair. We just crush them into dust.

xR1 has been a member of ours for several months, and you can easily find that out in his application thread on our forums. So he's not no ghost.

Actually, the words used were "We're going to ZI him after the war even if he had an app". Like I said, it didn't come from you, but it came from your member.

And when the war is done, then wars are done. If a member of DT wanted to continue attacks when the war is done and not follow orders then he may have to pay for not listen.

And when the war is done, then wars are done. If a member of DT wanted to continue attacks when the war is done and not follow orders then he may have to pay for not listen.

Thanks for clarifying. Now go respond to my other points please.

No. You came to get peace for you and FHU. You mentioned nothing of LoSS, and infact admitted to coming to us to get peace without them.

And as for your point of taking your offer of the table: We really don't care. You're the ones surrendering, not us. We've tried negotiating with you and it doesn't work. You don't get to dictate the terms. When you get that through your head, come talk to us. Until then, have a happy day! <3

We didn't even get a chance to talk about LoSS and getting to that point since we couldn't even come to something that shows an actual valid agreement that people were going to accept. Let a lone the fact that CSN had already offered LoSS white peace and it was a standing agreement to them to take, but wouldn't due to TIO still at war.

That's part of war in-game for people to say that there are nations going to declare on you. Get over it.

Well, it's good that you're finally admitting you're full of it. We all agree. You're making idle threats. I'm glad to have you say so publicly. I'm sure your alliance will be happy to know that help is not coming and that you're condemning them to oblivion.

I don't have a hard stance. I've been open to negotiations with your gov from the beginning to find a fair and suitable resolve to the war.

Uh-huh. Again, was it negotiations when you showed up after a single day and went from 30K in reps to white peace and apology? That's not taking a hard stance? You thought based on edited and incomplete information that our membership was in revolt and that you were in a position of power. You were wrong on both counts.

This is the first I've heard of it. Should your gov had brought this to my attention then I would of taken steps to slap him around. Magnet is a normal member and not part of the government. That line of pm's is not something I would of instructed our members to do.

Yes, you've been very honorable. How could I even remotely think that the consistent and pervasive behavior engaged in by the most senior members of your alliance would have anything to do with its leadership. How silly of me.

I guess we know now that your membership and you are not on the same page. I'm glad that's as obvious to you as it is to the rest of us.

Until you're in gov with ourselves and our allies then you need not worry about where they are.

And yet I do. You should try it. I'd actually prefer it if the members of your alliance were not crushed after this war. I've had great experiences with them and every one of them I've done battle with has fought admirably. Honestly, if not for someone screwing up the coordinated attacks of Runt and 907, I'd have been unable to recover.

Sure I'll explain. LoSS had already been working on terms on their other front dealing with TIO, and we knew that they were getting ready to get out in the next day or 2.

You guys keep saying this. These were separate negotiations. When you showed up, our alliance asked you why LoSS wasn't there. You didn't say, because they've got things worked out on their own. You didn't say that one of your terms was to ensure they got peace as well. What you did was insulted them and told us not to worry about it. That's plainly visible in the logs. Any other spinning on the events, requires people to assume you were being dishonest in negotiations when you said the things you said. Neither scenario makes you look particularly honorable.

So we went to CSN to start those talks ourselves and get some terms setup so when all of the sides had their agreements in place then all the wars would end shortly there of. We suddenly went from 30k to white peace and an OPTIONAL apology due the fact that your gov walked out of the negotiations without a word.

Hmmm... once again your current story doesn't match the logs. What you gave as the reason was that our members were in revolt. You gave that reason twice. Here, I'll help you out.

And I quote: Liz we know that you have members and allies that don't care for your reps offer to us. Take the moment to listen to them and work to find something that is beatifical and not a outrageous for everyone in CN to accpet.

That was in reply to her question about what your reasoning is for switching the offer.

And I quote again: So tell you what up until the logs from hearing CSN wanted to accept what you walked away. I was thinking of a lower offer to counter with that wasn't white peace. So I give you the opportunity to find that number.

Whoops. Looks like someone doesn't quite remember what they said. You changed your terms because you saw the screenshots. No point in lying about it now when I can simply quote you saying otherwise.

When an alliance walks out then any offer that was on the table is voided. So you don't get the same offer when you decide to come back. If an alliance needs time to talk about the offer then they say we'll talk about and get back to you. Leaving the door open for another round of talks. Even Goose had stated that when he left he had no intention of accepting the 30k offer so there was no offer there. The White Peace offer with the apology was something of good faith to CSN to help your gov save face and better the appearance and actions they had taken up to this time by giving them a way to say "Were sorry to their allies, fellow members, any anyone else they wanted to apologies to." It was never a required thing for them to do. The minute that they didn't want to do that. It was off the table, and we were ready to continue on from there to find middle ground.

And for the rest of your thoughts of what we had or have or us being able to war for a long time has yet to be. We don't care about our pixels, but look for what is right and fair to end this between our alliances.

Well, I guess if your members don't care about their pixels they should have no issues with you being hard-headed. We're all set then, I suppose. I guess we've established that rather than simply go back to the agreement you originally attempted to make, you'd prefer we burn you into the ground.

See, negotiation generally has both people looking to find middle ground. Not continually moving away from it. We made an initial offer you were terribly unlike to accept. I don't think that was wise, but I wasn't there and it wasn't up to me. You decided upon getting incomplete information from an OOC source that you were going to make an offer that you KNEW there was no way we were going to accept. You had an opportunity to end this for your membership and do the right thing and you instead chose to slap us in the face. That was your choice.

For the record, I told Goose not to make this post because I think it locks into an offer and shuts down negotiations. I mean, now we don't have the option of taking a page from your book and asking for 80K in reps.

"Don't walk out on peace talks when an offer is given with no notice and the intent of refusing it then"

Please enlighten me.

We don't believe you. IE, we think you're a filthy liar that's going to take the offer off the table the second we accept. Find a way to convince us, or accept the offer we made. In the meantime, have a nice day, I'm done talking to you.

He called DT filthy liars because the peace terms were off the table the moment you accepted. I responded by saying then don't walk out of peace talks with the intent of refusing it and then blame DT for taking it off the table.

Well, it's good that you're finally admitting you're full of it. We all agree. You're making idle threats. I'm glad to have you say so publicly. I'm sure your alliance will be happy to know that help is not coming and that you're condemning them to oblivion.

Uh-huh. Again, was it negotiations when you showed up after a single day and went from 30K in reps to white peace and apology? That's not taking a hard stance? You thought based on edited and incomplete information that our membership was in revolt and that you were in a position of power. You were wrong on both counts.

Yes, you've been very honorable. How could I even remotely think that the consistent and pervasive behavior engaged in by the most senior members of your alliance would have anything to do with its leadership. How silly of me.

I guess we know now that your membership and you are not on the same page. I'm glad that's as obvious to you as it is to the rest of us.

And yet I do. You should try it. I'd actually prefer it if the members of your alliance were not crushed after this war. I've had great experiences with them and every one of them I've done battle with has fought admirably. Honestly, if not for someone screwing up the coordinated attacks of Runt and 907, I'd have been unable to recover.

You guys keep saying this. These were separate negotiations. When you showed up, our alliance asked you why LoSS wasn't there. You didn't say, because they've got things worked out on their own. You didn't say that one of your terms was to ensure they got peace as well. What you did was insulted them and told us not to worry about it. That's plainly visible in the logs. Any other spinning on the events, requires people to assume you were being dishonest in negotiations when you said the things you said. Neither scenario makes you look particularly honorable.

Hmmm... once again your current story doesn't match the logs. What you gave as the reason was that our members were in revolt. You gave that reason twice. Here, I'll help you out.

And I quote: Liz we know that you have members and allies that don't care for your reps offer to us. Take the moment to listen to them and work to find something that is beatifical and not a outrageous for everyone in CN to accpet.

That was in reply to her question about what your reasoning is for switching the offer.

And I quote again: So tell you what up until the logs from hearing CSN wanted to accept what you walked away. I was thinking of a lower offer to counter with that wasn't white peace. So I give you the opportunity to find that number.

Whoops. Looks like someone doesn't quite remember what they said. You changed your terms because you saw the screenshots. No point in lying about it now when I can simply quote you saying otherwise.

Well, I guess if your members don't care about their pixels they should have no issues with you being hard-headed. We're all set then, I suppose. I guess we've established that rather than simply go back to the agreement you originally attempted to make, you'd prefer we burn you into the ground.

See, negotiation generally has both people looking to find middle ground. Not continually moving away from it. We made an initial offer you were terribly unlike to accept. I don't think that was wise, but I wasn't there and it wasn't up to me. You decided upon getting incomplete information from an OOC source that you were going to make an offer that you KNEW there was no way we were going to accept. You had an opportunity to end this for your membership and do the right thing and you instead chose to slap us in the face. That was your choice.

For the record, I told Goose not to make this post because I think it locks into an offer and shuts down negotiations. I mean, now we don't have the option of taking a page from your book and asking for 80K in reps.

Here go read my post of the full logs in this blog.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=328&showentry=2694

We didn't even get a chance to talk about LoSS and getting to that point since we couldn't even come to something that shows an actual valid agreement that people were going to accept. Let a lone the fact that CSN had already offered LoSS white peace and it was a standing agreement to them to take, but wouldn't due to TIO still at war.

Yes you did. You could have said "The LoSS/TIO/Hydra front is about to peace out. We'd like to know what it would take from us to do the same." Not say that LoSS is un-coordinated and just try and peace out without them. It's clear right here:

[17:29] <Liz[CSN|MoFA]> We like DT. Didn't expect ya'll to come in on LoSS' behalf tbh

[17:29] <@TiTaN[DT]> They asked for our help lol

[17:30] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Back Yeah we try to be unpredictable.

We brought up LoSS, you made no mention of them being near peace. What's your excuse for this one?

What OOC information? No one has presented me with anything that is OOC. If anyone would like to provide that to me and look to have help in trying to find whoever did what that was OOC then I'd gladly do my part. I don't believe in that crap and would do what was needed to help.

It's no need of yours to know what my allies are doing or not doing.

Hacking an admin account isn't OOC? Ghosting the account of one of our members on the OWF to post the information isn't OOC? Hmmm... we must have different definitions of OOC.

You encouraged that behavior by using their information on the OWF and in negotiations. The mods thought it was so OOC that they deleted it from the forums. You jumped all over anything you could get to try and get the advantage. And you were wrong. It didn't give you the advantage nor did it help your negotiations. It just made it apparent that you'll do anything for even the appearance of winning.

If you want to discourage that behavior in the future, it's simple. Decry it. Don't use it. Ignore it. Saying out of one side of your mouth that you're against such behavior while quoting it out of the other, encourages future events that are the same. Much like you claim to be against your membership trying to get us to disband, when we all know the truth of that as well, now don't we.

You can't win honorably. At all. We both know it. You've known it since 6 days into the war and that's why you tried to negotiate your surrender. Nothing's changed other than just how much further away from victory you've gotten. Your choices were to use every underhanded trick in the books or lose. And you chose both.

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He called DT filthy liars because the peace terms were off the table the moment you accepted. I responded by saying then don't walk out of peace talks with the intent of refusing it and then blame DT for taking it off the table. Simple as that.

When the one surrendering dictates the terms, we'll take this into account.

Here go read my post of the full logs in this blog.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=328&showentry=2694

I read the full logs. I just quoted them to you. I notice you can't address my comments. You just want me to link back to your half-truths and lies.

Come on, big man. What happened to all that ego, all that bluster? You wanted to have a public show down. A PR war. You're the guy with the gift of gab, aren't you? This is a game of war, building and diplomacy. Shouldn't you be good at one of them? Most of your alliance is good at war. I give them the props due them. One assumes they chose you because you were good at diplomacy and PR. Should just some random member of CSN be able to talk you into a corner in so few words?

Now, address why you said during talks that you changed the terms due to the screenshots? Now's your chance.

Address why you showed up to talks without LoSS and when challenged told us that LoSS was on its own? Now's your chance.

I'm using the same logs you are. Everyone has seen them in their entirety. Quote to me where you said in the first negotiation that you wouldn't peace out without LoSS? Quote me where LoSS's peace was mentioned in the counter offer? LoSS has made a point to ensure that peace with you was a requirement of peace with them. They've stood by you. Please quote from either of the first two talks where you did the same for LoSS. I'll wait.

Yes you did. You could have said "The LoSS/TIO/Hydra front is about to peace out. We'd like to know what it would take from us to do the same." Not say that LoSS is un-coordinated and just try and peace out without them. It's clear right here:

[17:29] <Liz[CSN|MoFA]> We like DT. Didn't expect ya'll to come in on LoSS' behalf tbh

[17:29] <@TiTaN[DT]> They asked for our help lol

[17:30] <Supa_Troop3r[DT]> Back Yeah we try to be unpredictable.

We brought up LoSS, you made no mention of them being near peace. What's your excuse for this one?

I wasn't there to make a mention in that snip-it of logs. And Titan isn't a strong FA person and didn't put it out there in a way that CSN would understand. As I'm more the FA person and he's more the War part. So yeah it was a failure to fully get that point across get everyone on the same.

I wasn't there to make a mention in that snip-it of logs. And Titan isn't a strong FA person and didn't put it out there in a way that CSN would understand. As I'm more the FA person and he's more the War part. So yeah it was a failure to fully get that point across get everyone on the same.

Can you quote in the logs when exactly you corrected this misunderstanding?

Certainly you must have done so, yes?

I wasn't there to make a mention in that snip-it of logs. And Titan isn't a strong FA person and didn't put it out there in a way that CSN would understand. As I'm more the FA person and he's more the War part. So yeah it was a failure to fully get that point across get everyone on the same.

I'm not sure how your Government works, but is it not a triumvirate or some variation of it? That leads me to believe he has the same authority as you. And if not, then why would you let him propose anything? Why would Supa agree with him? Why didn't you let us know any part of the LoSS front peacing out when you got there? You not being there is no excuse. Your Government informed us of that. Work on your communication next time.

I read the full logs. I just quoted them to you. I notice you can't address my comments. You just want me to link back to your half-truths and lies.

Come on, big man. What happened to all that ego, all that bluster? You wanted to have a public show down. A PR war. You're the guy with the gift of gab, aren't you? This is a game of war, building and diplomacy. Shouldn't you be good at one of them? Most of your alliance is good at war. I give them the props due them. One assumes they chose you because you were good at diplomacy and PR. Should just some random member of CSN be able to talk you into a corner in so few words?

Now, address why you said during talks that you changed the terms due to the screenshots? Now's your chance.

Cause I was taking petty on CSN and was giving them a chance to make it right with their membership on what they wanted let alone what most of CN wanted to have happen. Now if Goose would of come up with a counter after us offering up the White Peace then that would be called negotiating and finding middle ground to get this over with. But instead walks out.

Address why you showed up to talks without LoSS and when challenged told us that LoSS was on its own? Now's your chance.

Huh?

I'm using the same logs you are. Everyone has seen them in their entirety. Quote to me where you said in the first negotiation that you wouldn't peace out without LoSS? Quote me where LoSS's peace was mentioned in the counter offer? LoSS has made a point to ensure that peace with you was a requirement of peace with them. They've stood by you. Please quote from either of the first two talks where you did the same for LoSS. I'll wait.

LoSS was already working on peace talks to get TIO out, which LoSS wasn't accepting any offers until TIO got out. So it was only fitting that when TIO's peace was close that we'd have that same channel established and be able to end the war without issues.

Cause I was taking petty on CSN and was giving them a chance to make it right with their membership on what they wanted let alone what most of CN wanted to have happen. Now if Goose would of come up with a counter after us offering up the White Peace then that would be called negotiating and finding middle ground to get this over with. But instead walks out.

That's not negotiating. You went from an offer of 30K to white peace and apology. If Goose would have taken that same tactic, he would doubled the reps and then asked you to make a counter in between 40K and 80K.

Meanwhile, that didn't answer the question. What you said was that the reason you changed the offer from one including reps was because of the screenshots. Why did you say that if you really changed them because of the various other reasons you've tried to give? Certainly you're not just this bad at communicating. Your previous post informed us that only Titan sucks at communicating. You're awesome at it. You couldn't have just misstated things that badly, could you have?

You may be surprised to hear this but we don't need your pity. We're winning the war and our membership is having a great time doing so. Probably, this would be a good time for you to stop representing our membership and start representing your own.

Huh?

LoSS was already working on peace talks to get TIO out, which LoSS wasn't accepting any offers until TIO got out. So it was only fitting that when TIO's peace was close that we'd have that same channel established and be able to end the war without issues.

LoSS made their peace reliant on yours. You did not do the same. Are you really this bad at FA? Maybe we should go back to talking to Titan. At no point did you ever even mention that they should be considered. Fortunately, because we actually care, we brought them up. And after doing so, we were offered insults as to their communication and told not to worry about it. Can you please quote where in the logs you actually at any point defended LoSS or said that you were concerned about them also getting peace? Because I assure you we can quote the numerous times from their logs they did that for you. Or are they better at FA than you are?

Hacking an admin account isn't OOC? Ghosting the account of one of our members on the OWF to post the information isn't OOC? Hmmm... we must have different definitions of OOC.

You encouraged that behavior by using their information on the OWF and in negotiations. The mods thought it was so OOC that they deleted it from the forums. You jumped all over anything you could get to try and get the advantage. And you were wrong. It didn't give you the advantage nor did it help your negotiations. It just made it apparent that you'll do anything for even the appearance of winning.

If you want to discourage that behavior in the future, it's simple. Decry it. Don't use it. Ignore it. Saying out of one side of your mouth that you're against such behavior while quoting it out of the other, encourages future events that are the same. Much like you claim to be against your membership trying to get us to disband, when we all know the truth of that as well, now don't we.

You can't win honorably. At all. We both know it. You've known it since 6 days into the war and that's why you tried to negotiate your surrender. Nothing's changed other than just how much further away from victory you've gotten. Your choices were to use every underhanded trick in the books or lose. And you chose both.

Look we haven't hacked you. If I find out that a member did then it will be his head. At the same time I wasn't on line at the time of postings on CN forums and didn't see them out there. I did see one that was sent to me via irc that showed what your fellow members were thinking and wanting to have happen.

To use OOC information would be to take an IP address and hunt a person down outside of the game or bring outside personal content or information about nation into the game.

To read a screenshot and see what people are saying is not OOC.

So if people have an issue that has gone OOC and if there is anything I could provide to assist in finding who did an OOC act then I'd gladly help, but if it's just the screenshots you're upset about then you need to learn the difference in OOC and IC.

The reason the mods took the screenshots down was because they captured the IP address in the posts to the member making the post. Had the person who created the screenshots covered up the ip's then I'm likely to believe that the screenshots would of stayed as no OOC information would of been visible in them.

Cause I was taking petty on CSN and was giving them a chance to make it right with their membership on what they wanted let alone what most of CN wanted to have happen. Now if Goose would of come up with a counter after us offering up the White Peace then that would be called negotiating and finding middle ground to get this over with. But instead walks out.

Huh?

LoSS was already working on peace talks to get TIO out, which LoSS wasn't accepting any offers until TIO got out. So it was only fitting that when TIO's peace was close that we'd have that same channel established and be able to end the war without issues.

Oh stop it Myworld. You wanted an apology because you thought we would be desperate to accept white peace since we had oh so much internal drama going on. And we were working towards middle ground, as proven by logs on page one.

Again, please point out why this is the first time we're hearing this.

Edit: Fail quote is fail.

Look we haven't hacked you. If I find out that a member did then it will be his head. At the same time I wasn't on line at the time of postings on CN forums and didn't see them out there. I did see one that was sent to me via irc that showed what your fellow members were thinking and wanting to have happen.

To use OOC information would be to take an IP address and hunt a person down outside of the game or bring outside personal content or information about nation into the game.

To read a screenshot and see what people are saying is not OOC.

It was hacked information. If you're against hacking, then don't use the fruits of it. But again, we've established that when given the choice between accepting defeat and using underhanded and dishonorable means, you choose both.

So if people have an issue that has gone OOC and if there is anything I could provide to assist in finding who did an OOC act then I'd gladly help, but if it's just the screenshots you're upset about then you need to learn the difference in OOC and IC.

The reason the mods took the screenshots down was because they captured the IP address in the posts to the member making the post. Had the person who created the screenshots covered up the ip's then I'm likely to believe that the screenshots would of stayed as no OOC information would of been visible in them.

I know the difference between OOC and IC. The information was stolen using a password hack. It wasn't leaked by a spy. It wasn't given to you freely in some other way. It was stolen by hacking a forum that technically doesn't exist as far as IC is concerned.

But, hey, if your way of showing you disapprove of an act is to take advantage of it, then there is nothing inconsistent about that. If people thought that way, they'd consider buying stolen goods to be illegal because the stolen goods were the result of theft. Oh, wait, we do. Buying stolen goods is illegal because it encourages theft. Your actions encourage hacking in the future. You're a sore loser who simply cannot accept defeat. You continue to prove this by defending your ridiculous behavior.

I have also noticed you aren't very good at accepting responsibility. It wasn't my fault we insulted LoSS; it was titan's. It wasn't my fault we delayed peace for LoSS and then abandoned them; it was LoSS's. It wasn't my fault I used hacked screenshots; I didn't know. It's not my fault my members are trying to disband your alliance; I, the leader of DT, am not responsible for the actions of my members and government. Man, this war has been such an inconvenience for you, hasn't it. All these incompetent people burdening you with the clean up. It's a good thing they've got you to clean up all their mistakes. Certainly, it couldn't be said that they're actually the ones cleaning up after your mistakes by waging war as a result of them. Nope.

That's not negotiating. You went from an offer of 30K to white peace and apology. If Goose would have taken that same tactic, he would doubled the reps and then asked you to make a counter in between 40K and 80K.

Sure it's negotiating if you want things to go down instead of going up, and you had additional days of attack happening as well. Like anyone would want to pay out more have less to pay it with. Sorry it don't work that way.

Meanwhile, that didn't answer the question. What you said was that the reason you changed the offer from one including reps was because of the screenshots. Why did you say that if you really changed them because of the various other reasons you've tried to give? Certainly you're not just this bad at communicating. Your previous post informed us that only Titan sucks at communicating. You're awesome at it. You couldn't have just misstated things that badly, could you have?

You may be surprised to hear this but we don't need your pity. We're winning the war and our membership is having a great time doing so. Probably, this would be a good time for you to stop representing our membership and start representing your own.

I'm glad you don't need pitty. The reason the offer went from 30k to white peace was simple. Your gov walked out. When you do that it takes any offers off the table. No matter who put them up there to be agreed on. If a person needs to think about it they say so and talks continue later after the alliance has talked about it and comes back with either agreeing to them or a different offer. That didn't happen as stated by Goose that he had no intent on accepting the offer. So we had a new offer for him to work from in finding middle ground. He could of offered up something but didn't. He walked out again. Since then there has been 3 different offers presented and 1 did get pondered by your gov but we're still at no agreement.

LoSS made their peace reliant on yours. You did not do the same. Are you really this bad at FA? Maybe we should go back to talking to Titan. At no point did you ever even mention that they should be considered. Fortunately, because we actually care, we brought them up. And after doing so, we were offered insults as to their communication and told not to worry about it. Can you please quote where in the logs you actually at any point defended LoSS or said that you were concerned about them also getting peace? Because I assure you we can quote the numerous times from their logs they did that for you. Or are they better at FA than you are?

Don't need to as those are not related to CSN.

Sure it's negotiating if you want things to go down instead of going up, and you had additional days of attack happening as well. Like anyone would want to pay out more have less to pay it with. Sorry it don't work that way.

I'm glad you don't need pitty. The reason the offer went from 30k to white peace was simple. Your gov walked out. When you do that it takes any offers off the table. No matter who put them up there to be agreed on. If a person needs to think about it they say so and talks continue later after the alliance has talked about it and comes back with either agreeing to them or a different offer. That didn't happen as stated by Goose that he had no intent on accepting the offer. So we had a new offer for him to work from in finding middle ground. He could of offered up something but didn't. He walked out again. Since then there has been 3 different offers presented and 1 did get pondered by your gov but we're still at no agreement.

Don't need to as those are not related to CSN.

Negotiating is finding middle ground. You've constantly worked against it.

We get it. We declined your offer and you took it off the table. We figured it would still be there because two days of war (one day really since we went to you before the second day to let you know) changes nothing, and the surrendering party doesn't usually dictate reps. I don't think we're wrong for assuming that. But great, that's off the table and now we have an offer on the table as presented in the OP. You know where we are when you'd like to discuss that.

Also, there haven't been three offers from you. There was one offer from you, and one offer from us. The pondered offer wasn't brought up by you, either. It was brought up by Liz.

I have also noticed you aren't very good at accepting responsibility. It wasn't my fault we insulted LoSS; it was titan's. It wasn't my fault we delayed peace for LoSS and then abandoned them; it was LoSS's. It wasn't my fault I used hacked screenshots; I didn't know. It's not my fault my members are trying to disband your alliance; I, the leader of DT, am not responsible for the actions of my members and government. Man, this war has been such an inconvenience for you, hasn't it. All these incompetent people burdening you with the clean up. It's a good thing they've got you to clean up all their mistakes. Certainly, it couldn't be said that they're actually the ones cleaning up after your mistakes by waging war as a result of them. Nope.

We haven't abandoned them. We're still here and we're still fighting. Hacking? It could of been just as much a person with mod rights taking those screenshots. So until you actually no for sure it was hacked it's kind of up in the air as to the means they came from. And as far as the information of those screenshots, they only confirmed what people and some of your fellow members were saying already out in OWF about not liking the reps. It's not like I went to extremes of extorting tech from your alliance. I offered a way for your government to step and do what all of their allies have been asking them to do, and come out looking better then they have been during all this. They didn't take it so be it. They didn't like the other offers then those are still on the table and will be, but the last one from CSN will never be accepted in it's current form.

Negotiating is finding middle ground. You've constantly worked against it.

We get it. We declined your offer and you took it off the table. We figured it would still be there because two days of war (one day really since we went to you before the second day to let you know) changes nothing, and the surrendering party doesn't usually dictate reps. I don't think we're wrong for assuming that. But great, that's off the table and now we have an offer on the table as presented in the OP. You know where we are when you'd like to discuss that.

Also, there haven't been three offers from you. There was one offer from you, and one offer from us. The pondered offer wasn't brought up by you, either. It was brought up by Liz.

Well for once it looks like Liz got on the same page with the rest of us. Hmm...