Jump to content
  • entries
    46
  • comments
    875
  • views
    50,181

Let now all lies of multipolarity be put to rest

Sign in to follow this  
Schattenmann

467 views

A week or so ago Triyun wrote the blog "The Post Karma Lie of Multi-Polarity." You may have missed it. Like all serious blogs are (as will this one) it was quickly knocked out of sight by the daily swarm of "I'm gay look at me," "What I had for dinner," and "My favorite band" blogs. Ah, well.

I didn't completely agree with the argument as laid out, though the thesis was correct. The idea that there is more than one power pole is a lie. And tonight, with C&G's magnificent acrobatics to join Doomhouse's aggressive war, let now all lies of multipolarity be put to rest.

The simple fact of the matter is that multi-polarity is a lie. Anyone that claims that there are lots of different poles is either lying for some benefit, or is an oblivious idiot. Eyriq from Basketball Ninjas comes to mind.

Right now, it's PB-C&G-DH-SF(If they survive the war and GOD's duplicity) and then a bunch of disparate rag-tag AAs with sloppy foreign policies which just happen to create a big chaining nightmare, not any poles or a second side.

All anyone has to do to see this is read a thread like TGE's declaration of war http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98249 or any of the surrender threads from the VE curbstomp of Polaris. The alliances supposed to make up the second pole/"side" (I really hate that word but it's the common term recently) all hate each other to the point that they're literally doing the barest minimum in terms of their treaties (those who haven't ignored them) then surrendering to get away and get as much distance from everyone else as possible. There is no second (third, or greater number) pole.

Last night BarbulaM1 remarked that post-war GATO is going to be focusing on really building Synergy; I was aghast. I assume that he knows what he's talking about as a former Assembly Chairman and only recently departed for ODN, but whoever in GATO told him that is an absolute idiot if they think IAA or the rest of Synergy has any interest in strengthening ties with the alliance that hung them out to dry with its surrender.

Many people--smart guys within them included--say that once the war is over Duckroll is going to be a strong second pole or counterweight. Sure, when they feel like it. Their problem is that they are stuck with feet on two ice drifts headed in opposite directions: The old sign-as-many-MDPs-as-possible and the new create-a-small-focused-sphere. Until they plant both feet in the same place, they will continue to be an anachronistic holdover whose allies can count on them for a pat on the back, no less, and certainly no more. But a strong pole? Not hardly. Either way, if anyone thinks Duckroll is big, unified, or smart enough to handle PB-DH-C&G, they're just giving themselves a reassuring hug.

Months ago, I tried to get things going on an independent bloc with some promising AAs from the #stratego channel, noting that with PB then on the horizon, "The sad fact of the matter is that once Pandora becomes the dominant power on Digiterra--and that will be the day the bloc is announced--alliances will begin to align themselves in the Pandora sphere, just as alliances tied themselves to WUT in its time, and Continuum in its. They will trade their values for Pandora's in exchange for security, and they will enable Pandora in exchange for a share in the spoils [reps and gloating]."

Well, here we are. Following the war you can expect a flurry of treaties with C&G and PB alliances. There will be cantankerous cancellations by the alliances which have fought on Polaris' or Pacifica's "sides" leaving those alliances more fractured and vulnerable than before while many of them put on their best crap-eating grins and line up behind those alliances in PB, DH, C&G, and SF that they perceive as big daddies.

And so the march to hegemony will continue on. VE/PB and MK/Doomhouse will pat themselves on the back and laud their strategic acumen, but in reality they have only followed in Papa Orders' footsteps, after all, they can only hope to be as good as the best.

Sign in to follow this  


58 Comments


Recommended Comments



"And tonight, with C&G's magnificent acrobatics to join Doomhouse's aggressive war, let now all lies of multipolarity be put to rest."

Heh... stretching much? That's a pretty ridiculous statement, even coming from you.

Acrobatics? There were no ghost dow involved in our coming in. No optional clauses. The chaining was as straight forward as you will find in CN.

LOST's MDP with goons was activated. LOST activated their MA with the rest of CnG.

That's as straight forward a way to enter a war as you will see... ever.

Share this comment


Link to comment

"And tonight, with C&G's magnificent acrobatics to join Doomhouse's aggressive war, let now all lies of multipolarity be put to rest."

Heh... stretching much? That's a pretty ridiculous statement, even coming from you.

Acrobatics? There were no ghost dow involved in our coming in. No optional clauses. The chaining was as straight forward as you will find in CN.

LOST's MDP with goons was activated. LOST activated their MA with the rest of CnG.

That's as straight forward a way to enter a war as you will see... ever.

Contestant Number 1 tonight is OsRavan, the ODN SecGen who has made it his administration's centerpiece, hallmark, and number 1 goal to sign as many treaties with two blocs as possible and forego all independent power-building in the interest of cronyism and assured security.

Did C&G need to unnecessarily involve itself in what GOONS has been yelling as loudly as possible is a walk in the park because in fact GOONS is in way over its tiny head, or because they're not content with one curbstomp?

Share this comment


Link to comment

LOST's MDP with goons was activated. LOST activated their MA with the rest of CnG.

That's as straight forward a way to enter a war as you will see... ever.

Aside from NPO's getting hit out of the blue from DH with no coherent CB?

Share this comment


Link to comment

Thank you, mhawk, let's also not forget that. But, frankly, the "we had a good reason" thing is a diversion on OsRavan's part, the issue at hand is not CBs, it's lack of poles.

Share this comment


Link to comment

Nice side-step Schattenmann.

I point out the glaring lack of logic in your claim about CnG using "acrobatics" to get involved in the war.

Your response? To admit your choice of words was poorly picked? No of course not. To try and justify your claim? Also no (likely because it can't be justified).

Can I assume from your lack of response that you recognize the legitimacy of our DOW and were simply trying to be dramatic in your blog?

As to ODN treaties. You do realize I have been sec-gen for a year and in that year ODN has signed a grand total of one treaty (umbrella) with an alliance we had not previously been tied to.

So yes ::eye roll::. You revealed the sneaky plot to "sign as many treaties with two blocs as possible."

I honestly think your arguments would be taken more serious if you skipped the amateur theatrics and stuck to the facts.

Share this comment


Link to comment

Aside from NPO's getting hit out of the blue from DH with no coherent CB?

You seem to have an oddly... dare I say it? Optional... view of treaties. Are you honestly telling me, that you approve of alliances going "You know, that CB doesn't seem coherent. I'm not going to honor my treaty or defend my friends."

Even leaving aside the fact that ive never seen one side approve of the others CB *ever* in CN. That claims of 'that cb is weak' seems like war dodging to me. Even leaving that aside. Are you honestly implying to me that a MDP can and should be treated like trash because of the CB?

If so, then i'm sorry to say our views on Treaties, Friendship, and Honor are simply not compatible.

Share this comment


Link to comment

OsRavan, the simple fact of the matter is that whether one considers your lulzy entrance into the NPO front acrobatics or creative chaining, neither is the argument laid out in the blog. So !@#$@#$ respond to the argument not to one sentence in it and maybe I'll dignify your presence. You're the twit trying to side-step, "oh look, a blog about poles, I'll talk about CBs and treaties."

There is one pole, DH-C&G-PB, anyone who claims otherwise is oblivious or a liar.

Share this comment


Link to comment

Are you really making the argument, in the middle of the most even war in recent memory, that the world is not multi-polar? With your candidate for single ruling power being a mash-up of four different blocs with little membership overlap, one of which can't decide which side to fight on? Interesting theory.

Share this comment


Link to comment

If anyone pays attention to what I say, this is what I've been saying for a year now (since the end of BiPolar). There is no "ex-Heg" side, just a bunch of loosely connected and poorly organized AAs who all hate each other. If any alliance there is given an opportunity to get out and into the power structure, with few exceptions they will take it. The other side is just a myth, a bogeyman, believe in so that SF, CnG, and PB will have something to keep that together. I wonder how long they'll be able to keep up the myth after this war ends. I'd be surprised if they didn't to be quite honest.

Share this comment


Link to comment

Are you really making the argument, in the middle of the most even war in recent memory, that the world is not multi-polar? With your candidate for single ruling power being a mash-up of four different blocs with little membership overlap, one of which can't decide which side to fight on? Interesting theory.

Everyone likes to say there are many poles. I would think that if you are claiming I am incorrect, you'd make an argument rather than asking a question. So, then, name the pole(s) other than the lockstep blocs of DH, C&G, PB, and SF which is fighting on one side of these wars with the exception of RoK who was betrayed by the rest of the bloc.

Share this comment


Link to comment

OsRavan, the simple fact of the matter is that whether one considers your lulzy entrance into the NPO front acrobatics or creative chaining, neither is the argument laid out in the blog. So !@#$@#$ respond to the argument not to one sentence in it and maybe I'll dignify your presence. You're the twit trying to side-step, "oh look, a blog about poles, I'll talk about CBs and treaties."

Acrobatics or creative chaining? It was a direct MDP! It doesn't get any more straightforward than that.

There is one pole, DH-C&G-PB, anyone who claims otherwise is oblivious or a liar.

You're wrong, anyone who claims otherwise is oblivious or a lair. Or has a slightly different perspective or philosophy than me.

Share this comment


Link to comment

I agree with just about everything Shantamantan said

However, I disagree that the other "side" of DH-PB-CnG is simply a shamble. To the contrary, in the disjunction of the Pacific, Polar, and Duckroll alliance groups, I see a microcosm of the multipolarity that could exist in the future. Right now, NPO and Polaris have relations that are faulty at best, and neither alliance hopes to fix that, and Duckroll wants no part of either of them. Even though the three of them are surrounded and outmanned in war, they simply refuse to unite because they do not see themselves as the "other side." Rather, they value their independence as micro-poles in a world that was once unipolar. Imagine if the current "mega-pole" fractured, and the world fell into a multipolar society. I highly doubt any poles would be much larger than Duckroll or Polaris' immediate group of friends.

Share this comment


Link to comment

OsRavan, the simple fact of the matter is that whether one considers your lulzy entrance into the NPO front acrobatics or creative chaining, neither is the argument laid out in the blog. So !@#$@#$ respond to the argument not to one sentence in it and maybe I'll dignify your presence. You're the twit trying to side-step, "oh look, a blog about poles, I'll talk about CBs and treaties."

There is one pole, DH-C&G-PB, anyone who claims otherwise is oblivious or a liar.

Heh, take a few deep breaths there man. You look like you are about to blow a fuse. I didn't comment on your multi-pole bit, because frankly I don't care about it. And my sense has been most people don't either. Arguing whether the world has 2 poles or 20 is just semantics and doesn't change the reality.

What I didn't care for in your post... and it is something I have seen you do many times... is your twisting of facts, use of hyperbole in order to try and increase the drama of your post.

Either through ignorance or design (I could not say which) you misconstrued the entrance of CnG into this war. It involved neither lulz, creative chaining, or acrobatics.

I can simply assume that being on the side that seems to be 'losing' has annoyed you and caused you to leap into exaggerated turns of phrase. When you can explain to me how the activation of a MDP or an MA... Not an oA. Not a ghost Dow. A MDP and an MA... when you can explain to me how that straight forward activation of treaties is 'acrobatics' then I will gladly concede the point.

But, by all means... if you have no *real* counter to my point pull out the "I have the answer but i'm not going to talk to you! So there!" card. It will make me feel like i'm back in Junior High.

Share this comment


Link to comment

"And tonight, with C&G's magnificent acrobatics to join Doomhouse's aggressive war, let now all lies of multipolarity be put to rest."

Heh... stretching much? That's a pretty ridiculous statement, even coming from you.

Acrobatics? There were no ghost dow involved in our coming in. No optional clauses. The chaining was as straight forward as you will find in CN.

LOST's MDP with goons was activated. LOST activated their MA with the rest of CnG.

That's as straight forward a way to enter a war as you will see... ever.

heh. GR and Athens are allied to IAA, where is CnG? oh that is right, helping the other side. ODN/Athens are allied to GATO, where was CnG? again, helping the other side. Athens is allied to TIO, where is CnG? again, helping the other side.

it appears that helping the allies that are on the winning side is clearly the maneuver best suited for CnG.

i would say that given all of that, sure, it is not exactly acrobatics but ya'll simply ignoring any treaty that will put CnG on the losing side.

Share this comment


Link to comment

You seem to have an oddly... dare I say it? Optional... view of treaties. Are you honestly telling me, that you approve of alliances going "You know, that CB doesn't seem coherent. I'm not going to honor my treaty or defend my friends."

Even leaving aside the fact that ive never seen one side approve of the others CB *ever* in CN. That claims of 'that cb is weak' seems like war dodging to me. Even leaving that aside. Are you honestly implying to me that a MDP can and should be treated like trash because of the CB?

If so, then i'm sorry to say our views on Treaties, Friendship, and Honor are simply not compatible.

wait, you are going to say someone else has an optional view of treaties when ODN did not do a damn thing to help GATO out? seriously... that is friggin amazing. you should probably skip out on telling others that their view of a treaty is optional... kettle meet pot...

Share this comment


Link to comment

heh. GR and Athens are allied to IAA, where is CnG? oh that is right, helping the other side. ODN/Athens are allied to GATO, where was CnG? again, helping the other side. Athens is allied to TIO, where is CnG? again, helping the other side.

it appears that helping the allies that are on the winning side is clearly the maneuver best suited for CnG.

i would say that given all of that, sure, it is not exactly acrobatics but ya'll simply ignoring any treaty that will put CnG on the losing side.

ODN classic and now ODN is biggest dog in C&G; what else should we expect?

Share this comment


Link to comment

Are you really making the argument, in the middle of the most even war in recent memory, that the world is not multi-polar? With your candidate for single ruling power being a mash-up of four different blocs with little membership overlap, one of which can't decide which side to fight on? Interesting theory.

considering during Q's time, Q/Cit/SF/1V was basically the dominant force (4 different blocs) and in fact, considering Cit did not much like Q except for TOP, SF had no membership in Q, and 1V had like 3 members in Q (DH has 2 members in PB), i would say it is quite similar to a singular pole as it in the past it was called such.

yours is not even an interesting theory really.

Share this comment


Link to comment

considering during Q's time, Q/Cit/SF/1V was basically the dominant force (4 different blocs) and in fact, considering Cit did not much like Q except for TOP, SF had no membership in Q, and 1V had like 3 members in Q (DH has 2 members in PB), i would say it is quite similar to a singular pole as it in the past it was called such.

yours is not even an interesting theory really.

But, Doch! if there is more than one bloc there must be more than one pole! Durrr :wacko:

Share this comment


Link to comment

wait, you are going to say someone else has an optional view of treaties when ODN did not do a damn thing to help GATO out? seriously... that is friggin amazing. you should probably skip out on telling others that their view of a treaty is optional... kettle meet pot...

;:snorts:: Maybe you should talk to GATO before you start throwing accusations around. If GATO had actually wanted us to roll with them we would have had their back. And vice versa. Not to mention... I can not double check as CN is down but I beleive you are IAA? How come you did not hit ODN to defend MCXA and TCU? I'm going to go out on a limb here (correct me if i'm wrong) and guess that your allies saw you were occupied fighting on a different front of the war and thus did not call you in to help them. If they *had* called you, i'm sure you would have activated your treaty. Same with us.

edit to add: And I notice Schatt *still* hasn't explained his acrobatic comment. I guess he doesnt have an actual answer.

Share this comment


Link to comment

I agree with just about everything Shantamantan said

However, I disagree that the other "side" of DH-PB-CnG is simply a shamble. To the contrary, in the disjunction of the Pacific, Polar, and Duckroll alliance groups, I see a microcosm of the multipolarity that could exist in the future. Right now, NPO and Polaris have relations that are faulty at best, and neither alliance hopes to fix that, and Duckroll wants no part of either of them. Even though the three of them are surrounded and outmanned in war, they simply refuse to unite because they do not see themselves as the "other side." Rather, they value their independence as micro-poles in a world that was once unipolar. Imagine if the current "mega-pole" fractured, and the world fell into a multipolar society. I highly doubt any poles would be much larger than Duckroll or Polaris' immediate group of friends.

PB or SF would be larger since Polaris/Polaris's friends are kind of getting crushed right now and unless Polaris does not get crushing terms (which would be surprising) they won't be able to catch up that much.

right now, it is a bunch of micro-poles who are basically gonna be waiting for PB/DH to manufacture a CB or just roll without one and CnG/SF to basically ride along for the free tech.

sure there is independence in that but there is also basically a bunch of mini-curbstomps for months to come.

Share this comment


Link to comment

;:snorts:: Maybe you should talk to GATO before you start throwing accusations around. If GATO had actually wanted us to roll with them we would have had their back. And vice versa. Not to mention... I can not double check as CN is down but I beleive you are IAA? How come you did not hit ODN to defend MCXA TCU? I'm going to go out on a limb here (correct me if i'm wrong) and guess that your allies saw you were occupied fighting on a different front of the war and thus did not call you in to help them. If they *had* called you, i'm sure you would have activated your treaty. Same with us.

no, i am Dark Templar. but nice try. i am just commenting on the fact that you told someone else that they had "optional treaty" viewpoint while ODN sat out on defending GATO. sure, GATO did not ask you to come in, but that means you have an optional viewpoint of the treaty. most treaties don't have a "oh if you are busy, don't worry about the mandatory defense clause" bit. that is a common courtesy sure, but turns the mandatory to an optional.

most have an optional viewpoint unless it suits them otherwise. i have seen alliances in this war declare war on many other alliances regardless of already being at war. so don't tell me it can't be done.

right now, DT is at war with Legacy and CSN to help out LoSS. also, you should change that from different front of the war to the other side of the war.

Share this comment


Link to comment

sure there is independence in that but there is also basically a bunch of mini-curbstomps for months to come.

Realistically, I think the only way for this to be overcome would be by mutual venture. The other poles would have to agree to fight the DH/PB/CnG-dominant world, then agree to go their separate ways afterward. Of course, this wouldn't have to be as obvious, it could really just happen by proxy if all the poles would be roped into a curbstomp together. For instance, if Duckroll joined the current war on the Pacific/Polar sides, DH would be overwhelmed, and the splitup of themega-pole could occur through careful moves by the multi-poles.

Share this comment


Link to comment

no, i am Dark Templar. but nice try. i am just commenting on the fact that you told someone else that they had "optional treaty" viewpoint while ODN sat out on defending GATO. sure, GATO did not ask you to come in, but that means you have an optional viewpoint of the treaty. most treaties don't have a "oh if you are busy, don't worry about the mandatory defense clause" bit. that is a common courtesy sure, but turns the mandatory to an optional.

most have an optional viewpoint unless it suits them otherwise. i have seen alliances in this war declare war on many other alliances regardless of already being at war. so don't tell me it can't be done.

right now, DT is at war with Legacy and CSN to help out LoSS. also, you should change that from different front of the war to the other side of the war.

As I said CN was down :;shrugs::

You clearly didnt pick up the sarcasm/joking manner of my comment to Mhawk.

Let me spell the point out here. Anyway you slice it, if an alliance comes in via an MDP or a MA they are acting in the correct manner. To accuse them of doing otherwise when there are no Ghost DOW, no optional treaties being used... just straight forward MDP/MA.... and you are saying they acted wrongly? Then I say it is you who are wrong.

If that is the case and you are accusing them of shady dealings you have a double standard or an Agenda to push.

Short and simple. And on that note i'll leave you to your debate about poles or whatever else.

Share this comment


Link to comment

Guest
Add a comment...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...