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The Molon Labe Situation

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Smooth

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This is pretty clear cut. MK/Umbrella/GOONS (:wub: that last one) attack NPO, and TPF counters GOONS with a ton of other bandwagoners because everyone is afraid of big old Umbrella (:wub: those guys too.)

So then MK and Umbrella are like "chill bro, that's a lot of guys on GOONs", so they hit some TPF people without "officially declaring war" (we have all learned how important it is to do this in this war, else the whiners come out to play.)

Anywho, Molon Labe decides these are rogues because of the lack of a Declaration of War and hits them because they have a MDP or whatever with TPF. Cool. No problem here. But then, they start branching out and hit others, who aren't engaged with TPF and then refuse to call them rogues the same they were calling MK/Umbrella nations rogues. So MK/Umbrella roll them for being stupid.

I don't understand why that thread is over 20 pages. Does everything really need to be a !@#$@#$ 70 page argument about the same !@#$ over and over again for you people?

Haters gonna hate.

Trolls gonna troll.

Smooth out.

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Does everything really need to be a !@#$@#$ 70 page argument about the same !@#$ over and over again for you people?

Well they have to try their best to win the illusory 'PR War' since the actual war is a lost cause to them.

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Well they have to try their best to win the illusory 'PR War' since the actual war is a lost cause to them.

PR with who? I mean, there's two sides. Who are they trying to win over? GPA?

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Well they have to try their best to win the illusory 'PR War' since the actual war is a lost cause to them.

They lost that too, the general consensus on most of their posters is "point and laugh" interspersed with "that's Weapons Grade Stupid"

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You know, Umbrella isn't all that big and scary when they've got nobody in their range.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say. I can just hear Umbrella now, "Don't make me come down there!"

Smooth, as was pretty roundly said in the first few pages of MK and Umbrella's thread, it's one thing for them not to declare war on alliances they're attacking, it's another thing to then turn around and grandstand over another alliance do the same thing to them.

You ask do we really need a 70-page thread to argue it, but here you are opening theargument up in a blog. I mean if you want to get that special feeling just hop in the shower or lock your bedroom door for a few minutes and get it over with.

This is actually pretty delicious. MK & Umbrella dont' declare war then grandstand over ML not declaring war; Smooth gets pissy about a debate on an issue so he opens a second debate on the issue. I guess you folks just like to have and eat your cake.

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Well they have to try their best to win the illusory 'PR War' since the actual war is a lost cause to them.

Don't be ignorant. If you want to see a full frontal assault on the PR front all you need do is open up Archon's DoW, check the replies in CoJ's DoW, or check out MK's super duper double standard ML thread. Oh yeah, and this totally stellar blog.

e: lol @ TypoNinja working up the gall to call other people stupid.

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The actual sequence of DoWs went as follows:

1. ML nation 1 attacks Umb nation who was at war with a TPF nation.

2. ML nation 2 attacks MK nation who was at war with a TPF nation.

3. MK nation counters ML nation attacking MK nation in #2.

4. ML nation in #2 attacks another MK nation.

5. Umb nation counters ML nation attacking Umb nation in #1.

6. MK nation counters ML nation attacking MK nation in #2.

7. Umb nation counters ML nation attacking Umb in #1.

8. ML nation in #1 attacks another Umb nation.

9. ML nation 3 attacks MK nation who was at war with a TPF nation.

10. ML nation in #9 attacks Umb nation who was at war with a TPF nation.

All that was on day 1 and started about 4:20 server time, with subsequent attacks happening through the day. In each case where a ML nation went on to hit a nation in either MK or ML that was not at war with a TPF nation, they had already been attacked by another MK or Umb nation that was no part of the original attack.

On day 2, the next 6 attacks occurred soon after update and included MK and Umb nations attacking the three ML nations already at war and a fourth ML nation that was not yet involved in the fight. By 4:26 pm, another ML nation attacked a previously targeted MK nation. Just after 9 pm server time, all hell pretty much broke loose.

This didn't start out as something that couldn't have been negotiated into a peace settlement two days ago (indeed up until last night before 9 pm server time, there was still hope) had both sides been willing to simply walk away. My understanding is that's not how it went down however.

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Thanks for that breakdown, Hal, much needed.

Frankly, people in my alliance under attack by MK were also asking me what the Hell was going on with no DoW by us on MK or by MK on us, and also wanted to know whether or not they were rogues; they asked me to go talk to MK about it and figure things out.

I'm a cynic and I told them I understood their confusion, but that they just have to understand that MK is bored and wants to burn down the world and that doesn't include following 4 yrs of tradition surrouning formal declarations and war and treaties.

As I've said, fine: go nuts. But if you change the game out of nowhere, don't act all surprised and confused when people start asking you what your problem is or responding in the same way.

Anyway, it's a transparent attempt to lure the alliances they are attacking without DoWs into posting their own recognitions of war or hostilities so that MK's allies can turn it around and start "defending" MK.

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Anyway, it's a transparent attempt to lure the alliances they are attacking without DoWs into posting their own recognitions of war or hostilities so that MK's allies can turn it around and start "defending" MK.

Which of MK's allies, specifically, do you think are waiting for such things to happen before "defending" MK?

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These are some what to the standard of The Last Republic puting a DoW on GOONS and then getting Nuked by MK. Bloc Smoc, is what I say. MK can use the excuse well you hit someone in Doomhouse, of course you are going to get attacked. Same thing as someone attacking one Doomhouse Alliance then going to attack another Doomhouse Alliance. You are "ONE" isn't that how you want it to be?

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I hate when I go to post something, and I see that Schattenmann has already said what I was going to say.

Anyway, it's a transparent attempt to lure the alliances they are attacking without DoWs into posting their own recognitions of war or hostilities so that MK's allies can turn it around and start "defending" MK.

This is the part that irks me the most. MK is really insulting our intelligence with this little maneuver. With the undeclared wars, they're hoping they can avoid activating the treaties of the people they attack, and with the "recognitions of hostilities," they seem to think the rest of the world will see their wars as defensive.

I dearly hope that nobody in CN is stupid enough to see this situation in the way that MK would like us to.

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I'm a cynic and I told them I understood their confusion, but that they just have to understand that MK is bored and wants to burn down the world and that doesn't include following 4 yrs of tradition surrouning formal declarations and war and treaties.

To be honest Schatt, most of the traditions here on Bob make zero sense.

It takes a lot of creativity to go with the rules as they are established here.

This is the part that irks me the most. MK is really insulting our intelligence with this little maneuver. With the undeclared wars, they're hoping they can avoid activating the treaties of the people they attack, and with the "recognitions of hostilities," they seem to think the rest of the world will see their wars as defensive.

I dearly hope that nobody in CN is stupid enough to see this situation in the way that MK would like us to.

For one, these kind of things have always occurred during war.

Second, I doubt they are really in need for anyones sympathy, let alone they need to portray themselves as the defender.

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I hate when I go to post something, and I see that Schattenmann has already said what I was going to say.

This is the part that irks me the most. MK is really insulting our intelligence with this little maneuver. With the undeclared wars, they're hoping they can avoid activating the treaties of the people they attack, and with the "recognitions of hostilities," they seem to think the rest of the world will see their wars as defensive.

I dearly hope that nobody in CN is stupid enough to see this situation in the way that MK would like us to.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

The fact is, Umbrella and MK see no point in posting DoWs when we declare on only a couple of wars. If you think we think people are so stupid as to believe we're trying to spin this around, we're not. Alliance leaders are generally smart enough to figure out what we're doing, or they can seek clarification on IRC.

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Good retort.

It is, actually.

Posting a DoW is nothing more then a formality, maybe even a gesture to the other party and the onlooking world as a whole.

Ofcourse this comes from traditions and the law of war in real life, but most people wouldn't know what that even is, so why bother.

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It is, actually.

Posting a DoW is nothing more then a formality, maybe even a gesture to the other party and the onlooking world as a whole.

Ofcourse this comes from traditions and the law of war in real life, but most people wouldn't know what that even is, so why bother.

I don't believe that is the point of this conversation. I believe the point is sending out a RoH because an Alliance didn't post a DoW even though that Alliance posting the RoH hadn't posted a DoW on all of their targets. What is that "H" word that was very popular a couple weeks back?

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I don't believe that is the point of this conversation. I believe the point is sending out a RoH because an Alliance didn't post a DoW even though that Alliance posting the RoH hadn't posted a DoW on all of their targets. What is that "H" word that was very popular a couple weeks back?

No.

The RoH was posted because ML insisted that the Umb/MK nations were going to be treated as rogues, whereas Umb/MK made clear those attacks were government sanctioned, and that attacks on Umb/MK by ML would be treated as an alliance wide war. ML decided to go with it anyway, as is their right ofcourse.

Come on, it isn't that hard to read the OP of that thread.

As for the "H" word, hollow maybe?

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Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say. I can just hear Umbrella now, "Don't make me come down there!"

Smooth, as was pretty roundly said in the first few pages of MK and Umbrella's thread, it's one thing for them not to declare war on alliances they're attacking, it's another thing to then turn around and grandstand over another alliance do the same thing to them.

You ask do we really need a 70-page thread to argue it, but here you are opening theargument up in a blog. I mean if you want to get that special feeling just hop in the shower or lock your bedroom door for a few minutes and get it over with.

This is actually pretty delicious. MK & Umbrella dont' declare war then grandstand over ML not declaring war; Smooth gets pissy about a debate on an issue so he opens a second debate on the issue. I guess you folks just like to have and eat your cake.

Wasn't pissy at all man. Like I said, it is a pretty cut and dry issue. I didn't open this up for a debate, I was merely commenting on the fact that the argument was taking place elsewhere. In fact, before your post, their was no argument in this thread. Thanks for giving me the credit for what your brought here, though. Fed my overly-large ego. :smug:

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This didn't start out as something that couldn't have been negotiated into a peace settlement two days ago (indeed up until last night before 9 pm server time, there was still hope) had both sides been willing to simply walk away. My understanding is that's not how it went down however.

I know that some level of discussion occurred and ML was in fact given a chance to get out of this, but I don't know more than that.

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I know that some level of discussion occurred and ML was in fact given a chance to get out of this, but I don't know more than that.

Get out of what? You attacked their MDP partner.

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Get out of what? You attacked their MDP partner.

That was sort of assumed when TPF attacked GOONS, a member of Doomhouse. I don't see why we would be considered rogues in the first place. When TPF hit GOONS they were at war with MK/Umb, despite what every alliance attacking GOONS wants to believe.

Our recognition of hostilities was a formality that recognized ML was attacking us and we would be returning the favour seeing as they hadn't posted anything official yet.

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I don't understand why that thread is over 20 pages. Does everything really need to be a !@#$@#$ 70 page argument about the same !@#$ over and over again for you people?

Yes.

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