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This was a quality show. And in it, mpol echoes alot of everything I have said to anyone in NPO, who has ever asked me. I have sat and watched as other alliances from the continuum days, from the 1V days, have come clean, and said to the alliances that they wronged, "we did it because basically nobody could stop us, and that you didnt deserve it, was irrelevant to us."

NPO has failed to navigate this chasm. Hawk talks about a willingness to work with other alliances, and while I do agree, that they have shown it, what is unclear, is how much of it is looking to actually mesh with the world, and how much is just to tie them to enough power on the other side, that it makes killing NPO, a politically difficult move. Until the attitude of ignoring their past, and pretending like it will just go away, ends within the highest levels of Pacifica, the general feeling towards them will not change. Until they put a stop to a constant barrage of OWF propaganda against alliances like MK and Athens, those overtures will fall on deaf ears.

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As to the quality of the show, sure, very interesting. I'm not a media critic so if you say it's the best, it's the best.

As far as the content, pretty disappointing. It boiled down to a teleprompter reading of por-MK postitions from the OWF. It was like Law and Order: CN RIPPED FROM THE HEADLINES

Disappointing but I think realistically not surprisingly less than 3 minutes into theshow AirMe takes it all back and please don't be mad at me anymore, MK, I agree with you now. And why? Because you don't like the deployment strategy of NPO's allies? What does the politics of what went on have to do with the strategy employed by NPO's allies? They have no connection in terms of whose actions one should or should not support. A bloc of three alliances attacked, all three are open to counter. If the place that NPO's allies are best utilized is GOONS because of their trash newb raider nations, then that's where the allies deploy, and that hasn't got anything to do with MK-Doomhouse's preemption or bullcrap NPO boogeyman progaganda.

As for AirMe's comment that the other thing that brought him back around to MK fandom is NPO's "rhetoric [since the war started]" I don't realy know how you expect an alliance that gets sideswiped to start posting. If you were looking for them to sing songs and talk about roses and peacocks, then you weren't living in the real world.

Comments around 23:19 That Archon's DoW being "pretty, pretty good to be quite honest with you." I can't decide if you mean technically or content-wise. It is a very well-written collection of lies and hyperbole designed to cast MK's despicable actions in a good light of the savior of you all from a terrible future with Karma-esque tone on Continuum-esque actions. Anyone with a critical mind knows exactly what it was, and honestly I hope to god you didn't swallow that hook, AirMe.

Further commentary that AirMe's crawl back to MK's good graces was helped along by the "truth" in Archon's DoW of NPO being protected by Polaris and STA is just as backwards as the rest of the points preceded by "I started moving back over when . . . " NPO is (theoretically) being kept out of the war, therefore, they are nt an issue in regards to the war, because NPO is being kept out of the war, they are a danger, we must attack the dangerous NPO. Wow, what a leap! I can totally see why that logic would change your mind.

The line that takes the cake is AirMe in the 26th minute saying that the thing that brought him back from the brink was that TOP's move was voted best move in the CN awards as he acknowledges the results of the CN Awards are not able to be used as a true measrure due to MK bombing, then says "people must support it." What people, the MK bombers? Come. on.

Just prior, Stormsend's comments that the same people who have been calling them evil since Karma are now shocked, shocked, that MK did this struck me as glossing over the issue, and I'm sure tht for some people he summed it up correctly. However, I wrote the first response to the MK's actions and I took great pains to note that for 2 years I have been arguing the exact opposite and steering ten miles clear of the retarded neo hegemony rhetoric. Excuse me, the neo hegemony rhetoric that seemed retarded until +/-10 days ago. Maybe, as I said, I got totally played by Archon and this whole thing is "completely in character" for MK (quote Stormsend's) but any disappointment or anger I have is because I did not think this was MK's character. Every idiotic "pray for reps" "nice Francograd you've got there" or various other propaganda campaigns in that vein that MK has rolled out, I have rolled my eyes and written it off as MK's humor style while many others have been screaming "evil neo hegemony" and MK writes every one of these off as jokes and derides anyone that comments on them as an idiot chicken-little, but now here we are. So what am I supposed to believe now? Here we are, the war's on, so should we start praying for reps? You can play it both ways on the OWF and IRC, but the rubber's on the road and you can't do it both ways. I've got what you say onone hand, and what you say you mean on the other, and the reality now is that there was no joke or double-meaning. Unless they're so dumb they bought into their own "jokes" and could no longer separate the two.

37:44 In the middle of Hawk and mpol's exchange AirMe interjects.

Hawk "Where do you want us to do this" [display humility]

mpol "Come talk to us. I mean, FAN does not want--"

Hawk "Why?"

mpol "What?"

Hawk "Why?"

AirMe "It's called diplomacy"

mpol "That's politcs"

Very clever, "it's called diplomacy" But for what reason, or "why?," should NPO be engaged in diplomacy with FAN? NPO should send a diplomatic delegation to every alliance of any size on the off chance that maybe they're going to get t-boned any day of the week? That makes no sense. I personally don't have that big of a deal with FAN's war, but for tird-party AirMe to imply that it's NPO's fault that FAN attacked them for not being diplomatic enough in the past two years is silly and bald favoritism. IF we say NPO is getting its comeuppance, fine, but I think we know that at the end of the day NPO had FAN on its tail without regard to any overtures that might have been made.

NPO got it's tail beat for what, 4 months? then spent a year in reps, rescinded cornerstones of their entire worldview in withdrawal of the Moldavi Doctrine and non-enforcement of the Revenge Doctrine. They have no significant foreign affairs presence beyond couple of collapsed-failed protectorates and some longstanding treaties with Legion, Invicta, and TPF, themselves all aging backwaters. Why do they need to talk to anyone about anything that happened prior to that? They got their licks for all that Continuum era crap, you all got your money and tech and blood, an according to plan NPO had next to 0 chance of ever being a threat to anything again.

Indeed NPO has been more shy and defensive than CoJ in the past year. Frustratingly so. They have refused project after project--they have even proposed projects then backed way off--to avoid any appearance of ascension. NPO has absolutely no designs on the world, and in my 18 months of dealing with them as far as I can tell they have very few even for themselves. I don't know what these arrogant people, some of the show participants included, have as a basis in their dictates to NPO to be more humble or less menacing. They're more humble and less menacing than Cult of Justitia. No, what this boils down to is that while MK may have consolidated it's foreign policy, it and its allies have failed to realize the potential of the post-Karma era and instead have tied themselves up so tightly with overlapping treaties and blocs that tey left themselves no room to manoeuvre and realize their full potential as individual entities with a wide-open field. So rather than an engaging game where they can actually comete for power and influence, they've corned themselves into having to make !@#$ up to go attack the only alliances left outside their own webs. The threat to the future is not and was not NPO's return to power, it is and was a return to NPO-style diplomacy, and the unimaginative leaders of MK, GOONS, VE, etc have already done it with the FA situation they've created.

The only appreciable content in this episode was Stormsend's frankness in the matter of the war. ~28:45 "Outright not about preemption." Thank you. Stormsend does not waste his time or mine with the laughable idea that so many Doomhosers are trumpeting. We are not stupid, thank you. No one buys that the Doomhosers needed to save us, and I can very much appreciate Stormsend's not spouting that !@#$. For FAN it's revenge, GOONS is giggling "look what I can do" MK is having great lulz, and Umbrella wishes that tech=ambition. Thank you for respecting our intelligence, Stormsend, I appreciate a guy that doesn't sit a plate of spaghetti and turdballs in front of me like I don't have a nose.

Even mpol, who I think was genuinely trying to be level, got stuck in the ciruitness of his own logic, and it was telling of the whole situation. Fortunately, he had chuckles of support from the fans while Hawk tried to get down to business. As for his warning that NPO should expect more beatdowns, I'm not too surprised by FAN's attack, but everyone else got their knocks in in Karma and I would be shocked at more future BUT NPO WAS EVIL wars.

I have to disagree with Hawk's "our gov doesn't change" and I think it is simply on wording vs meaning. He's stuck on the radio live trying to word things and while NPO's structure or ways of thoguht may not change, NPO in my assessment has 180ed. I--Schattenmann, who slammed NPO every Monday at 10 PM for 3 months plus comments in every thread I didn't write in between for 9 months. I sit in perfect harmony with Cortath right on down. I dont' know what kind of change a person wants out of NPO if they don't see the change in NPO giving Schattemann a Red Senate seat. And he comes back around to it and is exactly right, NPO is more willing than ever and I think as willing as they're going to get to work with people.

As for the Mushqaeda, wouldn't be surprised if some Islamist group got hold of it and DDOS'ed MK was the first thing I thought.

What a mess.

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Thanks for the summary, as said I just didnt wanted to listen to it.

It proved to be the right idea it seems. I think it is clear that NPO was not belligerent, nor in any way unreasonable since "karma". We have fallowed those surrender terms to the letter and afterwards played "the nice guy" to the letter too. We were faced with ton of provocations, but we weathered stoically.

Not only in this game, but others too. Taking it OOC as well.

I am not quite sure what you think this unprovoked attack will result in. But I can tell you, nobody will have any will to play a nice guy in NPO any longer.

Diplomacy? Are you kidding me? Diplomacy with whom? You? Why?

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Pacifica surely brought about Doom House's preemptive strike that completely missed the alliances that actually had a treaty with Polaris because of the quality of our posts in the OWF. The CB was further made air tight by our allies declaring war on one of the attackers. Clearly, we should just surrender now in the face of such moral highground.

ooc: That's what I got out of the show but I still enjoyed it.

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Well, I never said I take it all back. But I did say that I was more sympathetic to their cause. And I never said the STA/Polar protection of Pacifica was actually true. All I said was it was plausible.

And again, I said posting on both sides has been pretty terrible.

And to the people shooting down the CB...I don't think we discussed the CB in length at all so I do not know how you can glean that from this show.

Henry, I urge you to listen to it more, because as far as I am concerned Hawk won the debate with mpol. I will admit I let me history with everyone bleed through...but that is how I have always been.

Jesus Schattenman...were you actually listening to the content or were you just going into it hating the whole thing? I appreciate the critique...but jesus...you put more thought into that post than we put into the whole show.

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Schattenmann, you should have a show. You seem more objective than Airmee.

mpol, you came off poorly tbh. hawk is right, the guy needs a hug. get over it is certainly not what I am saying, but to expect the type of diplomacy that would neutralize relations with FAN? For what? Why? You clearly have a hate that will never quell. Your actions aren't going to make you stop hating us, they will only make you hate us more and no doubt your kind will attack us again.

Airmee, you do a good show but it could be alot better if you were more analytical instead of judgemental. We want a break down of what how the war could develop. All the judgement and bias is already in every topic. You should have a clear set of topics and potential follow up questions ready. Otherwise, it's just some guys getting together to bs. There is enough bs in the topics/announcements on the forum.

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Is there a separate site such as blogradio or talkshoe that these can be accessed at? I ask because I got a few friends wanting to listen to it as well, but can't/won't download.

I am thinking about setting up a podcast hosting account somewhere. I will get back to you on that one.

I try to be centrist. And I try to be reasonable. But I do have my biases and have never claimed otherwise. I try to be as fair as possible. Next show I am trying to get Cortath to join us so then the Pro-doomhouse crowd can complain.

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Schattenmann hit on most of the points that struck me during the show. AirMe clearly left logic at the door.

Yes, clearly the pro pacifican crowd is not happy with me. Even though Hawk came out on top in the end. Don't worry, Cortath has the floor in the next one. I expect Doomhouse complaints after that show.

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I'm not complaining that you took a position against us -- I love nothing more than a well thought out rebuttal. I'm saying that your positions made no sense whatsoever.

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I'm not complaining that you took a position against us -- I love nothing more than a well thought out rebuttal. I'm saying that your positions made no sense whatsoever.

I won't deny that I am a little conflicted and confused on where I stand. But there are a couple of things I threw in there that I classified as Plausible. Or just stating for the purpose of stating. There were other things that I posed as questions that other people are saying I believe. For instances: I brought up the CN Awards Poll and phrased it as a question and all of a sudden I fully support pre-emptions when that isn't what the case was.

I still say people need to listen better. :P

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mpol got exposed. He made no sense.

That being said, no point in crying over spilled milk. Bring on the war, we'll show you what's up.

See? That is what I am saying. Mpol was a great guest but it is my opinion that Hawk won that debate/discussion.

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