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Two-Faced? Misinterpretation? Liars?

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memoryproblems

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Welp.

As was expected, FEAR and WFF have entered in defense of NEW. I think we can all be happy that somebody had the balls to do it.

Over the past day, a considerable amount of evidence has surfaced that says maybe NEW didn't explicitly ask PC/iFOK to stay out after all. FEAR and WFF apparently never received such a message, NEW might have given them an option in stating that they 'didn't have to die with them', but I have yet to hear anybody involved say that either FEAR or WFF received the same directions from NEW as PC/iFOK claim to have.

So I'm wondering whats going on here? There are obviously two contradicting stories, with PC/iFOK staying out on NEW's alleged 'wishes', meanwhile FEAR/WFF entering as NEW supposedly didn't make the same demands of them. I've come up with three possible scenarios for what could be going on.

1. Perhaps NEW told two sets of allies different things.

NEW telling their allies different things? Seems implausible.

2. Perhaps FEAR/WFF and PC/iFOK interpreted NEWs words differently.

Different Interpretations? As English is not NEW's primary language, it's possible, but both FEAR/WFF and PC/iFOK should be both used to communicating with NEW, you would assume the translation and familiarity would be good enough that this would not happen.

3. Perhaps PC/iFOK are lying through their teeth.

PC/iFOK lying? Why in the world would they do that, unless true to my blog post from yesterday, they are indeed cowards, or perhaps they have some ulterior political motive.

I'm in none of the aforementioned alliances, so I don't truly know which of these scenarios is ultimately true, but I do have a hunch based upon a number of chats over the past day.

Lets assume for a moment that NEW did in fact go and tell their allies that they could stay out, if they wanted to. By no means is that not a mandate, its an option. It's a lot different then what NSO did a few short months ago, and it is certainly a far cry from what PC/iFOK are claiming happened, if it's indeed true. While it was plenty generous of NEW to give an option, even if this is a war of their own creation, a great deal of good allies, such as FEAR/WFF, and as PC/iFOK used to repetitively claim they were, would hear the 'option' to stay out and enter the fray anyway.

I suppose it makes sense why PC/iFOK might want to stay out. Why fight the people who are crucial to your grasp on control? It makes no sense to assist a split between the power spheres and create a more interesting world, particularly when your already at the top and it's easier to promote the status quo and routinely unite against a perceived 'common threat'. I guess it's shame that PC/iFOK had no other way to do this then ditch an ally in their time of need. It says a great deal about how much easier it is to sign a treaty when it extends your power then it is to honor a treaty when doing so threatens your power.

I cannot imagine an amount of spin sufficient enough to make this look good. I suppose you can adhere to the goldieax25 philosophy and go around calling it 'not activating an oA clause', but covering your head and telling yourself something repetitively does not make it true. (If it was, I would probably try it on a few things.) NEW never asked for help with raiding DF nations, and NEW did not initiate a war against the alliances of Fark, TPE, or the International (although they obviously provided them with a legitimate CB.)

Bottom line: NEW has allies fighting on their behalf. As quick as PC/iFOK have been in the past to tell everybody what great allies they are, you have to wonder why they are allowing others to show them what honor is really about.

*memoryproblems rubs his mustache

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Indeed. Where's all the guts and bravery? PC? iFOK? Several of your members have already left you to ghost NEW to fight for them. At least some in your alliance had balls. Apparently your gov doesn't.

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NEW started this war. They knew exactly where their path was leading and they decided to walk it anyway. To say they are fighting a defensive war is ludicrous.

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NEW started this war. They knew exactly where their path was leading and they decided to walk it anyway. To say they are fighting a defensive war is ludicrous.

Which is why you don't sign an MDP-level-or-higher treaty with someone that you can't follow the actions of 100% of the time (whether you agree with them or not)

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Wow, you're a bad troll. You talk about so-called evidence and conveniently forget to mention all the facts that brought us to this point.

NEW decided to pick a fight with one of our other allies (FARK). Maybe some mistakes were made, but mistakes can be fixed, so everyone tried to resolve the situation. NEW wasn't interested in solving it and wanted to fight, so two of our allies went to war. From there, it was a lose-lose situation. Any decision would've been ridiculed by one side of the web and probably some on the OWF would've ridiculed it either way, just because they like to troll.

We then tried to contain the situation and make sure no other parties would enter this war. According to NEW, they told FEAR and WFF to stay out too. But I'm not surprised they went in anyway...what do they have to lose? They don't have to fight other allies. It looks like you forgot to mention that scenario, btw.

I'm not e-lawyering my way out of this and wouldn't use the 'not activating the oA-clause' as an excuse. We love NEW but we also feel they've put us in an impossible position. We're not prepared to fight (and lose) our own friends, just because NEW feels like attacking one of their old enemies. You can say that it makes us bad allies, but most people would've said the same thing if we had ignored our allies on the other side. Like I said, a lose-lose situation.

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I'm not e-lawyering my way out of this and wouldn't use the 'not activating the oA-clause' as an excuse. We love NEW but we also feel they've put us in an impossible position. We're not prepared to fight (and lose) our own friends, just because NEW feels like attacking one of their old enemies. You can say that it makes us bad allies, but most people would've said the same thing if we had ignored our allies on the other side. Like I said, a lose-lose situation.

Welcome to UPN purgatory. >:}

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Wow, you're a bad troll. You talk about so-called evidence and conveniently forget to mention all the facts that brought us to this point.

NEW decided to pick a fight with one of our other allies (FARK). Maybe some mistakes were made, but mistakes can be fixed, so everyone tried to resolve the situation. NEW wasn't interested in solving it and wanted to fight, so two of our allies went to war. From there, it was a lose-lose situation. Any decision would've been ridiculed by one side of the web and probably some on the OWF would've ridiculed it either way, just because they like to troll.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see ANY Fark protection announcement, no matter how vague in the disbandment thread. I agree with the fact that Fark joined in because DF was a close friend, what I don't agree with is the fact that New was picking a fight with them, due to the lack of announcement from them. So initially, NEW was NOT trying to go against Fark.

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4. FEAR and WFF saw this complicated situation for what it was, an opportunity to divide and conquer some of their rivals spheres

Yes, quit the crying over iFOK and PC not giving you the war you want. It is transparent and logical, sure.

FEAR and WFF are not even agreeing with the main reasoning for which it started anyway. Or if they do, we can now conclude that anyone can attack their protectorates without expecting retaliation. Let's see how happy they are when that happens.

One has to ask himself why they didn't attack FARK. After all, according to their 'treaty obligations', the treaty they claim to hold in so high regard, they should have attacked FARK too. They didn't. It is therefore not so much that they support NEW because of 'treaty obligations', no, they are trying to further their own political goals by making an already complicated situation near impossible to resolve.

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The UPN situation was completely different: a. they didn't have to directly engage friends and more important b. they ignored a MDAP.

Actually they did. FEAR attacked ODN. Both were MDoAP partners of UPN.

That was when they decided to sit out of the war.

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Actually they did. FEAR attacked ODN. Both were MDoAP partners of UPN.

That was when they decided to sit out of the war.

GATO had the exact same situation in the six million dollar war. At least iFOK aren't hypocrites though. I don't remember them trying to make GATO look cowardly. PC on the other hand......

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PC and Little FOK just lied, seeing the posts of NEW members in FEAR's DoW thread I'm pretty sure that they haven't asked their allies to stay out.

Power/Infra > Friends

PoorCowards the new ODN? :v:

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PC and Little FOK just lied, seeing the posts of NEW members in FEAR's DoW thread I'm pretty sure that they haven't asked their allies to stay out.

Power/Infra > Friends

PoorCowards the new ODN? :v:

Well, you're wrong. I have logs ofc, but I'm not going to c/p out of a private channel here. I don't like being called a liar, D34th.

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PC and Little FOK just lied, seeing the posts of NEW members in FEAR's DoW thread I'm pretty sure that they haven't asked their allies to stay out.

Power/Infra > Friends

PoorCowards the new ODN? :v:

What did I tell you in the other blog post?

You have absolutely no business running your mouth, seeing as how you're a member of NpO, an alliance that is absolutely shameless in their disregard for friends.

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What did I tell you in the other blog post?

You have absolutely no business running your mouth, seeing as how you're a member of NpO, an alliance that is absolutely shameless in their disregard for friends.

"You're in NpO, shut up!" argument will not help you doesn't matter how many times you repeat it.

Well, you're wrong. I have logs ofc, but I'm not going to c/p out of a private channel here. I don't like being called a liar, D34th.

I have logs of Julian Assange telling me secrets about US government who weren't published yet, but I'm not going to c/p out of a private conversation here.

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"You're in NpO, shut up!" argument will not help you doesn't matter how many times you repeat it.

I have logs of Julian Assange telling me secrets about US government who weren't published yet, but I'm not going to c/p out of a private conversation here.

What I'm pointing out to you is, your alliance is as opportunistic as they come, you've thrown alliances to the wolves to save your hides time and time again (most recently with TOP), so for you or anyone else in NpO to spout off about another alliance's business the way you are, is about as hypocritical as you can get.

If we were talking about leadership lying to an entire coalition and then trying to pretend like it didn't happen, then you, as a member of NpO, could talk all day about it. I'm sure you can even get almightygrub to be a guest lecturer on how to completely $%&@ over your friends and allies while all the while pretending that you're righteous and true.

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Keep talking, if the best example of we throwing friends and allies to wolves to save our hides is TOP in the Bi-Polar war, you'll need to try harder.

Four words for you: Ad hominem tu quoque

Also, tell me, how do you feel seeing PC become the new ODN?

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Keep talking, if the best example of we throwing friends and allies to wolves to save our hides is TOP in the Bi-Polar war, you'll need to try harder.

Four words for you: Ad hominem tu quoque

Also, tell me, how do you feel seeing PC become the new ODN?

PC hasn't become the new ODN. As the treaty was written, they didn't do anything wrong, and your attempts to label them as cowards is about as funny as you trying to tell me and everyone else that NpO has anything that resembles honour.

Do not get me wrong, I am not on your side, because I have integrity, which is something that the NpO doesn't know the meaning of. My disappointment with PC on this matter is because they have either forgotten how close NEW and PC once were, or have disregarded the past for a rosier looking future. The bond that was once there between PC and NEW was not paper thin as it is now, as all treaties are now.

THAT is why I'm disappointed. I would never lump myself in with the likes of you, or anyone else decrying PCs actions as if they're somehow lacking in fortitude for following the letter of a treaty as it was written. You and yours have done MUCH worse, and have absolutely no business opening your mouths on this issue.

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What I'm pointing out to you is, your alliance is as opportunistic as they come, you've thrown alliances to the wolves to save your hides time and time again (most recently with TOP), so for you or anyone else in NpO to spout off about another alliance's business the way you are, is about as hypocritical as you can get.

If we were talking about leadership lying to an entire coalition and then trying to pretend like it didn't happen, then you, as a member of NpO, could talk all day about it. I'm sure you can even get almightygrub to be a guest lecturer on how to completely $%&@ over your friends and allies while all the while pretending that you're righteous and true.

honestly all the fools out there trying to use the actions of Polaris in regards to TOP during the Bi-Polar war as an example of Polaris throwing friends and allies under a bus is simply ridiculous. there was absolutely no friendship let alone anything that could remotely be called a treaty between TOP and Polaris. What i find amusing is all those using that example forget how Polaris hit TOP and absorbed a lot of damage for their ally and friend MK. ya'll focus only on half of the situation forgetting that Polaris took not only a lot of NS damage but a huge PR hit in order to help out MK. if that ain't being dedicated to a friend, i don't know what is. Polaris has $%&@ed up in the past, just as every single other alliance out there has. at least figure out the true examples of what you are trying to state. otherwise it is just useless.

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PC and Little FOK just lied, seeing the posts of NEW members in FEAR's DoW thread I'm pretty sure that they haven't asked their allies to stay out.

Power/Infra > Friends

PoorCowards the new ODN? :v:

The new Polaris most likely.

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