Haflinger's Blog

And then they saw GOD's stats and treaties and declared war on a local nursing home instead.

Well it was more like we convinced Xiph to chill out, but whatever you would like to believe. I don't want to rain on your parade, because you're on a roll. I think you're picking on the wrong people here though. There are a lot worse things out there than Athens.

And then they saw GOD's stats and treaties and declared war on a local nursing home instead.

GOD is a big teddy bear and doesn't scare anyone.

Right. GOONS misses a stagger and alliances have to pay them $15,000,000 to accept the nations; AcTi misses a stagger on their rogue and Athens gets to remove sanctions on him and take him back open arms. I get it, I've been around this block before. Athens is in CnG and Tyler's cool, he gets to just nuke people whenever he wants and Londo's cool he just gets to aid rogues--DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT unghguingnunngggggg

Athens will stand up for what they think is right. When I was ZIed I made a public apology and afterwords Londo approached me to ask me what was up and he thought the ZI was wrong and tried hard to get me off the list, but Athens wasn't war ready and waited til I was released then sent me 45 mil to rebuild.

Well it was more like we convinced Xiph to chill out, but whatever you would like to believe. I don't want to rain on your parade, because you're on a roll. I think you're picking on the wrong people here though. There are a lot worse things out there than Athens.

But we raided KoNi! and used an old CB, we *MUST* be the worst.

While the actions of LegendoftheSkies wasn't discussed at a government level I do support his actions here. Looking at this situation I can find no violation of our charter or established practices. RED is under 16 members and has no known treaties. If you all want to be outraged, take the outrage to RED for putting themselves into such a poor position.

No, Batallion peaced Tyler out, at which point the war was over, at which point Tyler applied to Athens and I later removed his sanction, as the war was over.

That's not really how it works in my experience. Regardless of the actual status of wars on the rogue, the rogue is only off the hook if and only if the people he is rogueing on allow it.

However, as RED don't have any treaties and are below 15 members, they are not an alliance anyway, so who cares I guess.

Haven't been on IRC today. Have you asked anyone in NPO?

If NPO does protect RED Elite Defense then you can bet on this being an attempt to set up NPO. We'll just have to wait to see how this develops (if in fact NPO does protect RED).

Are you absolutely sure, Fernando, that this is an attempt to set up the NPO? Could in fact it just be the case that some people just might not like RED? Or would that be too simple?

It is Athens' and \m/'s fault that they would crap a brick if someone aided a person roguing them, but they seem to think it's funny and acceptable when the shoe is on the other foot. In fact a couple months ago \m/ had to take VE spying away their nukes sitting down so I'd think they would be a little more sober about this sort of thing.

It isn't about what is right and wrong, aiding people at war is always something you just aren't supposed to do, but not because of any moral connotations, simply because it can be seen as an act of war. If it being an act of war doesn't bother you, then there is no reason not to do it. If they don't care if RED sees it as an act of war, then it isn't wrong.

Also, no destructive spy op was ever made between \m/ and VE.

Are you absolutely sure, Fernando, that this is an attempt to set up the NPO? Could in fact it just be the case that some people just might not like RED? Or would that be too simple?

I can assure you \m/ holds NPO in very high regard. There is absolutely nothing nefarious going on here aside of Fernando' over active imagination.

Are you absolutely sure, Fernando, that this is an attempt to set up the NPO? Could in fact it just be the case that some people just might not like RED? Or would that be too simple?

Listen up and read better. I asked if RED was protected by NPO as did Omni. We simply had the wrong alliance in mind. NPO protects RNU. Neither I or Omni could think of the name of the alliance. So it is a reasonable conclusion as I said if RED was protected by NPO that it could be an attempt to set up NPO. But that doesn't matter now as it was cleared up that NPO protects RNU and not RED.

Read the entire blog before YOU jump to conclusions. Athens setting up NPO wouldn't be much of a jump, just wasn't the case here.

I can assure you \m/ holds NPO in very high regard. There is absolutely nothing nefarious going on here aside of Fernando' over active imagination.

I know \m/ is not capable of anything. You guys couldn't set up a picnic table. Go to your Syn and isolate your dying alliance even more so than it already is.

I explained above to RV what my line of thinking was. It was wrong as the alliance that is protected by NPO is RNU.

It does appear as if RED has a CB against both \m/ and Athens. This could get interesting.

We're cool on 'teaching Athens' a lesson. Thanks for the suggestion, though!

really, i would never have guessed. you do realize that IAA and thus myself are also allied to Athens.

That's not really how it works in my experience. Regardless of the actual status of wars on the rogue, the rogue is only off the hook if and only if the people he is rogueing on allow it.

However, as RED don't have any treaties and are below 15 members, they are not an alliance anyway, so who cares I guess.

With all due respect, Athens is a sovereign entity and very much capable of setting policies for ourselves on how to deal with situations like this. If others wish to challenge our sovereignty on who we accept into our alliance and when we accept them because of an intangible claim they wish to assert which is based on a past war, that is their right, but they had better be prepared to go to war to back up their beliefs, as we certainly are.

So, Fernando, are you telling me that this is not the case of you coming up with a conspiracy theory after not hearing the facts, but rather simply a matter of you not knowing the facts and still jumping to the conclusion that some sort of nefarious conspiracy is afoot?

I know \m/ is not capable of anything. You guys couldn't set up a picnic table. Go to your Syn and isolate your dying alliance even more so than it already is.

They sure had you BEGGING to be let off of ZI

So it's OK if you aid rogues as long as they're roguing small alliances?

The arrogance on display here is breathtaking.

So it's OK if you aid rogues as long as they're roguing small alliances?

The arrogance on display here is breathtaking.

/me pinches Haf's cheek. You sir, are sooo cute. Try as you may, you do not set Athens' policy. If RED is not an alliance, by our standards, then SWAT is not a rogue. Hence, we have a total non-issue here. But, you are still cute as a button.

/me pinches Haf's cheek. You sir, are sooo cute. Try as you may, you do not set Athens' policy. If RED is not an alliance, by our standards, then SWAT is not a rogue. Hence, we have a total non-issue here. But, you are still cute as a button.

This is the post you make to prove you're not arrogant?

Define rogue, and explain to me why attacking an alliance has anything to do with it.

Well, this whole affair has been an entertaining one. A nice jump (and sudden drop) in interest for me in anything related to alliance politics. I sincerely hope we don't have to wait long for the next one.

Listen up and read better. I asked if RED was protected by NPO as did Omni. We simply had the wrong alliance in mind. NPO protects RNU. Neither I or Omni could think of the name of the alliance. So it is a reasonable conclusion as I said if RED was protected by NPO that it could be an attempt to set up NPO. But that doesn't matter now as it was cleared up that NPO protects RNU and not RED.

Read the entire blog before YOU jump to conclusions. Athens setting up NPO wouldn't be much of a jump, just wasn't the case here.

I know \m/ is not capable of anything. You guys couldn't set up a picnic table. Go to your Syn and isolate your dying alliance even more so than it already is.

I explained above to RV what my line of thinking was. It was wrong as the alliance that is protected by NPO is RNU.

Please, never change.

With all due respect, Athens is a sovereign entity and very much capable of setting policies for ourselves on how to deal with situations like this. If others wish to challenge our sovereignty on who we accept into our alliance and when we accept them because of an intangible claim they wish to assert which is based on a past war, that is their right, but they had better be prepared to go to war to back up their beliefs, as we certainly are.

I realize that, I'm just saying.

This is the post you make to prove you're not arrogant?

Define rogue, and explain to me why attacking an alliance has anything to do with it.

What part of "They don't recognize RED as an alliance" aren't you getting here. A group of unaligned, by common raiding alliance definitions, cannot, by definition, have any crime comitted onto them, because unaligned are not recognized as having any sovereignty. Therefore the person they aided was not a rogue, because RED isn't a real alliance by their standards.

I am such a despicable person.

I realize that, I'm just saying.

What part of "They don't recognize RED as an alliance" aren't you getting here. A group of unaligned, by common raiding alliance definitions, cannot, by definition, have any crime comitted onto them, because unaligned are not recognized as having any sovereignty. Therefore the person they aided was not a rogue, because RED isn't a real alliance by their standards.

All nations are sovereign.

Do something about it.

All nations are sovereign.

But some are more sovereign than others.

I am such a despicable person.