The MVP's Blog

This is funny on so many levels, not the least of which is that Thanksgiving isn't celebrated annually on the 25th of November and the correlation on this particular year is entirely coincidental.

This is funny on so many levels, not the least of which is that Thanksgiving isn't celebrated annually on the 25th of November and the correlation on this particular year is entirely coincidental.

Of course they don't teach stuff like this in history books so people like you will deny it. And yes whatever "coincidence" floats your boat.

Enjoy your 25th nonetheless.

Of course they don't teach stuff like this in history books so people like you will deny it. And yes whatever "coincidence" floats your boat.

Enjoy your 25th nonetheless.

What people are like me?

I should also point out that your link was discussing the history of Thanksgiving as it pertains to the massacre of North American natives and has literally nothing to do with your blog post.

Your OP says it exactly. Origins.

The reason to celebrate it now in modern times has a vastly different meaning.

My family celebrates Thanksgiving because it is a great opportunity for the family to be together.

Not to get this off topic, but I am Christian too. But I don't take what the Popes say seriously and in many cases I don't believe in what the Popes preach. I am Catholic and I interpret things as I want to believe them and will not go by what some guy in Rome tells me I must believe. I argue with my mom about this. I tell her the guys in Rome and our priest and our Achbishop don't own the religion so they can't force feed their interpretation of things onto me.

Anyways, the holiday is far different now than from its origins.

Your OP says it exactly. Origins.

The reason to celebrate it now in modern times has a vastly different meaning.

My family celebrates Thanksgiving because it is a great opportunity for the family to be together.

Not to get this off topic, but I am Christian too. But I don't take what the Popes say seriously and in many cases I don't believe in what the Popes preach. I am Catholic and I interpret things as I want to believe them and will not go by what some guy in Rome tells me I must believe. I argue with my mom about this. I tell her the guys in Rome and our priest and our Achbishop don't own the religion so they can't force feed their interpretation of things onto me.

Anyways, the holiday is far different now than from its origins.

But that's like saying, "I understand the book now without reading the beginning."

It doesn't work that way. Thanksgiving was brought over by the Pilgrims, yet it was carried over from its origins which is hidden from the masses. I can't celebrate it, I won't celebrate it. I am not part of the Latin West, and I don't think you guys would understand why. No offense.

I should also point out that your link was discussing the history of Thanksgiving as it pertains to the massacre of North American natives and has literally nothing to do with your blog post.

Woops wrong one, thanks.

I think of all the education that I've missed. But then my homework was never quite like this.

I've got it bad, so bad, I'm hot for teacher.

You know, I could care less about this but, I'd like to draw your attention to the word, "Granada". Now say it slowly. It's a pretty sweet word.

My family celebrates Thanksgiving because it is a great opportunity for the family to be together.

That's exactly why I celebrate it, as well as Christmas. We have always even had an 'opposition response' tradition in my family where I end up giving a speech about love and family after the traditionally religious family members give the prayer. It started when I was 8.

You know, I could care less about this but, I'd like to draw your attention to the word, "Granada". Now say it slowly. It's a pretty sweet word.

lol, that it is.

But I don't expect you guys to understand. Like I said this is something personal for me because I am not nor is my ancestry linked to European Christianity. Spend it with your families, but I won't be wishing you a happy "thanksgiving"

This is basically what amounts to misunderstanding peppered with hyperbole.

Thanksgiving in America hasn't got anything to do with Catholics, the Crusades, or the Spanish Inquisition.

The first British colonists Thanksgiving in America was held at Berkeley Plantation in Virginia in December 1619 to celebrate their safe arrival, with the feast mandated to be yearly: "Wee ordaine that the day of our ships arrivall at the place assigned for plantacon in the land of Virginia shall be yearly and perpetually keept holy as a day of Thanksgiving to Almighty God."

The more familiar "first Thanksgiving" story to most people is the Pilgrims' story. If you've done your homework, you know that the Pilgrims were separatists from the Church of England (called Episcopalian in America). The Church of England itself being a separatist movement from the Catholic church, we see that the Pilgrims were two steps removed from the Pope. They hadn't anything to do with the Spanish Inquisition.

The idea that because in history the term "thanksgiving" has been used more than one time that every thanksgiving is related to every other one or even in awareness of other ones is just silly. Sorry. It's just silly. This is like if I were to say "I'm a Christian and Easter is held at the time of year that the Zoroastrians had their pagan celebrations, so I'm not celebrating Easter." Or, Christmas is held when pagan celebrations had been held, so I'm not celebrating Christmas because it's not the true birth time and I'm a Christian not a druid.

"Thanksgiving" is not some formal title that they came up with, it's just a word that was common in the period of time that American Thanksgivings were created.

I end up giving a speech about love and family

So . . . a regular Thanksgiving.

lol, that it is.

But I don't expect you guys to understand. Like I said this is something personal for me because I am not nor is my ancestry linked to European Christianity. Spend it with your families, but I won't be wishing you a happy "thanksgiving"

Can I at least get a "Happy Gratitude Day"? Come on, man, you know you're being ridiculous.

Even this "[European] Christians were killing my [Arab] ancestors" thing is totally ignorant. You do realize that nomadic Southern Arabs hired/converted by Islam were killing your pagan/Christian/Jewish sedentary Northern Arab and Egyptian Arab ancestors for over 600 years before the Crusades began, don't you?

Ha, nice try.

Thanksgivings first uses were in the First Crusades, Pope Urban decreed the day Jerusalem fell to the Crusaders to forever be a day for all European Christians. There was no schism within the Church at the time, it was all one therefore the term "thanksgiving" comes from before the Catholic/Protestant divide.

And last I checked, the Protestants still did celebrate the triumph over the Muslims during the Crusade. Like when Thomas Jefferson called the King of England a Muslim infidel in an omitted part of what was to go in the Declaration of Independence. The term "Thanksgiving" historically is a European term to give thanks for bountiful blessings, and often those blessings came at the expense of others.

Of course you will all flock to defend your heritage and I don't care if you are Christian. This is the stuff they don't teach you in history class, I don't believe things at face value and neither do you.

Stop

I am neither Christian, Muslim,or Native American, but this debate is starting to get on my nerves after 37 years. Every year we have one group or another, or some hyper-sensitive politically correct white people spewing the line that by celebrating Thanksgiving we are supporting oppression, genocide, rape, murder, land theft, whatever. The truth of the matter is that ALL of these groups were doing the exact same thing before the Europeans/Christians came along and beat them at their own game. There are no victims, only the current victors.

Hundreds of years later, Thanksgiving is merely a day off and an excuse to pig out and watch football. Both of which are worthy of giving thanks. So, Happy Thanksgiving!

Ha, nice try.

Thanksgivings first uses were in the First Crusades, Pope Urban decreed the day Jerusalem fell to the Crusaders to forever be a day for all European Christians. There was no schism within the Church at the time, it was all one therefore the term "thanksgiving" comes from before the Catholic/Protestant divide.

And last I checked, the Protestants still did celebrate the triumph over the Muslims during the Crusade. Like when Thomas Jefferson called the King of England a Muslim infidel in an omitted part of what was to go in the Declaration of Independence. The term "Thanksgiving" historically is a European term to give thanks for bountiful blessings, and often those blessings came at the expense of others.

Of course you will all flock to defend your heritage and I don't care if you are Christian. This is the stuff they don't teach you in history class, I don't believe things at face value and neither do you.

You basically just repeated what I said. "thanksgiving" is a word. It is a verb. It has not intrinsic religious origin. Pope Urban didn't make up the word thanksgiving. What you're saying is that if the President declared a day of thanksgiving for ...whatever... D-Day, that you would not celebrate that day because if he's calling it a day of thanksgiving, then he's invoking Pope Urban. You're just wrong.

I am neither Christian, Muslim,or Native American, but this debate is starting to get on my nerves after 37 years. Every year we have one group or another, or some hyper-sensitive politically correct white people spewing the line that by celebrating Thanksgiving we are supporting oppression, genocide, rape, murder, land theft, whatever. The truth of the matter is that ALL of these groups were doing the exact same thing before the Europeans/Christians came along and beat them at their own game. There are no victims, only the current victors.

Hundreds of years later, Thanksgiving is merely a day off and an excuse to pig out and watch football. Both of which are worthy of giving thanks. So, Happy Thanksgiving!

So we should celebrate your victory?

Tas da chose mon ami!

You basically just repeated what I said. "thanksgiving" is a word. It is a verb. It has not intrinsic religious origin. Pope Urban didn't make up the word thanksgiving. What you're saying is that if the President declared a day of thanksgiving for ...whatever... D-Day, that you would not celebrate that day because if he's calling it a day of thanksgiving, then he's invoking Pope Urban. You're just wrong.

"You're just wrong man, not like u reteard don't know the stoy"

No I'm not trolling, I'm being honest. And like I said you will dismiss this because you are subconsciously defending the actions of those you would consider your ancestors and you know what? I would do the same thing. Too bad I'm not on that end so you will have to deal with it.

Well fine, you can go sit in a corner not understanding history while we enjoy turkey. I mean, we both win, right?

So we should celebrate your victory?

It isn't my victory, I wasn't there. Nor do I condone any of that crap, I just call it as I see it.

You have no idea what my heritage is, so I wouldn't go down the racecard route.

The simple fact of the matter is that your position makes no logical sense. First of all, you're condemning the Pope for declaring a day of thanks over a military campaign. This is idiotic because the military campaign you think you're protesting was a response to the aggressive Arab Muslim conquest of the Greco-Roman Christian Byzantine Empire. So it was evil for the Roman Pope to celebrate the liberation of the formerly Roman Jerusalem in defense of the formerly-roman Byzantine Empire, but it wasn't evil for the Arabs to attack the Bysantine Empire?

You're upset that European Christians killed your Arab ancestors, so you don't celebrate any holiday that is a day of thanks. You conveniently disregard the fact that the European armies were in the Middle East because those Arabs were invading it and the Byzantine Emperor asked them to come defend their territory.

You refuse to acknowledge that Arabs in Egypt, Syria, the Arab Peninsula, and North Africa were first invaded, subjugated, and forced to convert to Islam by Southern Arabs in the 600s AD, over 600 years before the first Crusader ever set foot in the Middle East. If your Arab ancestors were Christians, they were second-class citizens in the various Islamic empires that occupied Egypt. If they were Muslims, they were conquerors the same way that the colonists were conquerors of Native Americans, and they were at war with European Christians because they were there as conquering, occupying soldiers.

This is just an irrational emotional response based on ignorance of history. Rather than explain your unexplainable (because it's based in fallacies and whitewashes) position, you just say "white people can never understand." Sorry, that's not how things work. You've made claims that you say are backed up with history, but then you just want to blow off factual rebuttals. So you will have to deal with it.

Well fine, you can go sit in a corner not understanding history while we enjoy turkey. I mean, we both win, right?

Of course they left it out of your history curriculum, lol.

It's just so obvious. You can learn all you want, but it better be what they want you to learn.

I'm glad I'm a science major. No matter who you are 2+2=4

Of course they left it out of your history curriculum, lol.

It's just so obvious. You can learn all you want, but it better be what they want you to learn.

I'm glad I'm a science major. No matter who you are 2+2=4

Christopher Columbus did 9-11!

Not if you have large values of 2.

You have no idea what my heritage is, so I wouldn't go down the racecard route.

Neither do you, calling me Arab. Yet I am left to assume you have European ancestry, correct me if I'm wrong Schattenmann.

The simple fact of the matter is that your position makes no logical sense. First of all, you're condemning the Pope for declaring a day of thanks over a military campaign. This is idiotic because the military campaign you think you're protesting was a response to the aggressive Arab Muslim conquest of the Greco-Roman Christian Byzantine Empire. So it was evil for the Roman Pope to celebrate the liberation of the formerly Roman Jerusalem in defense of the formerly-roman Byzantine Empire, but it wasn't evil for the Arabs to attack the Bysantine Empire?

You do realize the Fourth Crusade was launched to sack Constantinople right? They looted the city and left it in disarray. You act as if the Western armies needed some sort of excuse to attack anyone. People say Constantinople didn't fall until they did to the Turks, this is wrong. It fell to Western Crusaders before then.

You're upset that European Christians killed your Arab ancestors, so you don't celebrate any holiday that is a day of thanks. You conveniently disregard the fact that the European armies were in the Middle East because those Arabs were invading it and the Byzantine Emperor asked them to come defend their territory.

Highlighted for hilarity. Apparently I am supposed to celebrate.

You refuse to acknowledge that Arabs in Egypt, Syria, the Arab Peninsula, and North Africa were first invaded, subjugated, and forced to convert to Islam by Southern Arabs in the 600s AD, over 600 years before the first Crusader ever set foot in the Middle East. If your Arab ancestors were Christians, they were second-class citizens in the various Islamic empires that occupied Egypt. If they were Muslims, they were conquerors the same way that the colonists were conquerors of Native Americans, and they were at war with European Christians because they were there as conquering, occupying soldiers.

I agreed up until you said, "They were like Native Americans" now hold up just a minute. What the hell? No Christians in Egypt are still abundant, they're no where near extermination or being put on reservations for display. And by the way, who did attack the Native Americans and subjugate them under their will? Hmm... let's ignore that in favor of looking at the Arabs!

This is you trying to play off one of the most despicable acts of genocide and linking it to the Arabs. Are you high?

This is just an irrational emotional response based on ignorance of history. Rather than explain your unexplainable (because it's based in fallacies and whitewashes) position, you just say "white people can never understand." Sorry, that's not how things work. You've made claims that you say are backed up with history, but then you just want to blow off factual rebuttals. So you will have to deal with it.

Mhm, so let me ask why do you think the Pope really wanted to send civilians, not an army, but citizens out to the Middle East to re-conquer Jerusalem? For their salvation? Look where Western Europe is now in terms of Christianity, sure worked out great in the long run! So let me ask, is George Bush's crusade in Iraq similar to Pope Urban's?

Heh, closer than you think.

I don't get it. Why not just take the opportunity to think about whatever you're thankful for, on your own terms? If no one else is aware of this sinister origin of the holiday that you mention, then can you really say that's what they're celebrating?