A Glimpse Into Madness

Hey Kzopp. Interesting that you chose to forge your own path here - I envision you mostly as sticking in an alliance until the end. I used to think that was me as well, then I learned how to leave alliances and not feel like a deserter or implying the alliance I'm leaving isn't a good alliance.

Shoot me a PM if you're interested in joining Exodus. We're just starting, a nice fresh start, and have a lot of great personalities (all very active). Joining now would set you up to be on the ground floor when as we continue to grow. You'd have your hand (however big or small) in the formation of the alliance. Anyway, I'll leave it at that, and that we'd be pretty humbled if you chose to join with us.

As far as your last part:

Being in both a medium and large alliance, as well as studying other designs has led me to believe that most organizations are over-complicated, bloated, and inefficient. People can get their own trades and find their own tech deals. Anything that isn't directly related towards military readiness, and to some degree, foreign affairs, is a waste of time and manpower.

I disagree on the fact that people can find their own tech deals/trades. Many people who wouldn't go searching for these things would accept aid or sent aid if told to. More work for those organizing but hey, if they want to do it, why stop them. It's worth it in the sense that there are better TCs and more TDs.

I'm beginning to feel that 'collapsing' the hierarchy (of an alliance) a bit makes for a stronger community.

I agree with this one. That's why big alliances fell out of favour and small alliances are now the thing to do. Smaller community, less distance between leaders and members.

A most functional alliance, imo, is a marriage of the two previous opinions, and so is led by a strong leader, the founder of the alliance, who is unhindered by excessive and cumbersome charter rules, who leads by virtue of their character. And in that vein, a competent leader who informs and listens to the nations that who have decided to align themselves in the alliance. A leader who treats the other nation leaders as equals reigning over their own nations and yet has the fortitude to lead those peers forward.

This type of alliance is certainly okay *as long as* the leader doesn't quit or get ousted. Think about it, having no rules on the top relies on that leader being benevolent, kind, just, etc. If that person steps down and another less virtuous person moves into their position it could spell the end of the alliance. Ahh - I'll rephrase because now I know your motivation/the example you're thinking about when you mention this. Yes, the small charter rules aren't the worst to not follow, following the "spirit of the charter" is all well and good - but it's a slippery slope. Give the leader the choice of where to stop breaking charter rules, and you may be asking for trouble

Blocs:

They're superfluous.

Agreed.

Best of luck with your new-found freedom. Already sent you a recruitment message, so won't do so again Most recruitment pitches are superficial and not, in the strictest sense, true, so just look to have fun and enjoy where ever you may land. That's what it's all about, in the end.

Thanks for the invite, you two.

iMatt, interesting points. And I agree that many people won't do much if not prodded, but I also think that people adapt to the culture the find themselves in. And in cultures that expect the player to be self sufficient by keeping their trades and slots full, they will. In theory.

Hey Kzop, I tried to PM you, but your forums PMs seem to be full.

Thanks for the invite, you two.

iMatt, interesting points. And I agree that many people won't do much if not prodded, but I also think that people adapt to the culture the find themselves in. And in cultures that expect the player to be self sufficient by keeping their trades and slots full, they will. In theory.

Haha - theory is an interesting theory.

Haha - theory is an interesting theory.

Brb, writing a theory on theories

I'm not in the business of recruiting. I'll speak well of you and endorse your application, should you choose the dark path.

Hey Kzop, I tried to PM you, but your forums PMs seem to be full.

Fixed.

I'm not in the business of recruiting. I'll speak well of you and endorse your application, should you choose the dark path.

Everyone else, plug your ears and look away.

nippy, I think you know how tempting that is.

Ok, everybody, it's good.

GOONS

Everyone else, plug your ears and look away.

nippy, I think you know how tempting that is.

Ok, everybody, it's good.

GOONS

So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.

I've always found your insight on the OWF to be interesting, and rather in line with my thoughts on many occasions. As usual, I find myself mostly agreeing with your analysis up top XD, and have been in search of an alliance that would fulfill my needs. I recently applied to and joined TOP and it seemed to fit my requirements to a T. Active intelligent membership base which is consulted and listened to by the government, its definately not "lording over the masses", as many general members have been notable leaders in other alliances or in TOP itself at some point or another (myself included), and generally the atmosphere is fantastic. I think you might like it, and if you're looking for a new alliance, TOP might be what you're looking for. But thats just my .02, good luck mate

-LF

nippy, ha ha ha, classic

Lord Fingolfin, I, too, often find myself agreeing with your posts and even more times learning something new. Thank you for the recommendation, I will weigh your counsel carefully.

If you still want to be allied to TSO (I too want to get rid of them :v ) then join OTS. Also, if you like fun, you'll like us.

Mr O. can I try to recruit you?

*Long drawn out recruitment stuff here*

#TKTB

TKTB.co.cc

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_Killer_Turtle_Brigade

Hey Mr. O,

You should obviously join The New Guy

Sorry to hear you've left TFD, you were a great asset to them.

That being said.... you should check out what Colossus is up to. You know us, we love you, and would love to have you along for the ride, and could certainly use someone with your experience and drive.

http://www.cn-colossus.co.uk/

Lusitan, lol. Good luck, buddy, thanks for sharing so much of your time with me while I was a member. You, Iggy, GearHead and all the other folks there are aces in my book. TFD has a bright future.

Thanks everyone for your replies, I am considering each one carefully. Keep them coming. Tell me what you have to offer and what you are looking for.

Also, much thanks to The Order of the Black Rose for providing me some temporary shelter while I finalize my plans.

*Edit: Valdemar, congrats on the merger, good stuff right there.

Consider yourself invited to join Athens. In regards to your comments, I've found that finance systems are pretty critical to the success of an alliance, because it is not easy to get every member of the alliance to form an optimal trade circle for himself or keep his aid slots full of efficient tech deals. People get busy with RL, or they get lazy, they have bad experiences with tech sellers or trade circles collapsing, maybe they get the wrong idea about what a good trade circle is. The bottom line is that some members can and will take care of themselves quite nicely, but many will not, and the gov't giving them a little guidance about what to do is the difference between an alliance in terrible shape and one in excellent shape.

Also, Athens would welcome some commentary and thoughts as to our political direction. Most of our members are pretty apolitical and genuinely have no desire to make any sort of contribution to the direction of the alliance, other than to build their nations and fight as needed, and enjoy the community. But new ideas, new blood, and new members are certainly welcome.

Maybe I should give you the 64Digits spiel, because policy wise it sounds like you're a perfect fit. I personally am always open to advice from my members, and I'm no tyrant. But our charter is simple enough to give me solid powers.

I mean, we're not big, but hey, maybe you want to help me change that? I even already have an 'advisor' position set up for people who can't be as active but whose skills are best not left to waste.

If you know how to mass recruit well, that's a big plus, I frankly don't have the time, IRL my classes are very tough.

If you're a coward who just wants to build your pixels in peace, don't expect it here. We're fighters, and as you can see we're not exactly gonna be on the winning side of the next war. But if you think infra is just a tool to raise your casualty count, I think you'll be right at home.

Oh, and the spiel is here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=93971

I'm not gonna bother copy/pasting it.

Londo, I appreciate your offer and commentary. Athens has proven itself a number of times over to be a fine alliance and the invite has considerable appeal. I will certainly put some thought into it.

As to your comments, you raise a good point in that there is a measurable difference in the competency and effectiveness between an alliance that takes care of its finances and one that does not.

So to clarify the thought a bit further, I suppose it would be more accurate to say that it's better to err on the side of conservatism in regards to deploying manpower and structuring the rules. The creation of specialized ministries and positions can take a life of its own and eventually stretch the manpower thin, as there are only so many capable/active leaders in an alliance. I definately like the KISS method. Occam's Razor and all that.

Likewise, while some people really get off on the debate and legislation of their charters, I've found that too much of it has a tendency to bog down programs that should be simple and create strife between members who are essentially engaging in mental masturbation when they should be doing rather than talking. To each their own, I suppose, but I found that the complexity of the make-up extracts a certain price in mental exhaustion and unnecessary bureaucracy.

--

HeroofTime55, a nice pitch.

I quite like you, even if we often disagree on things. I would invite you but you know enough about CN to know where you want to end and where you don't. I wouldn't mind if you opted for MK, a change of sight could be a good thing for your vision of the game. Good luck wherever you decide to go.

Thanks, potato! You're pretty swell yourself!

Also, iMatt, since I was still thinking about it, figured I'd reply.

This type of alliance is certainly okay *as long as* the leader doesn't quit or get ousted. Think about it, having no rules on the top relies on that leader being benevolent, kind, just, etc.

Of course. That's why they're the leader. But I also must point out that I didn't say 'no rules.' What I meant was a streamlined set of guidelines that won't insert needless or burdensome obstacles that would impede the leader from making the swift and often controversial decisions that he or she knows is best for the alliance.

If that person steps down and another less virtuous person moves into their position it could spell the end of the alliance.

*shrugs*

Ahh - I'll rephrase because now I know your motivation/the example you're thinking about when you mention this. Yes, the small charter rules aren't the worst to not follow, following the "spirit of the charter" is all well and good - but it's a slippery slope. Give the leader the choice of where to stop breaking charter rules, and you may be asking for trouble

Again, it's not about breaking any rules. In fact, quite the contrary, a good leader is one the members can trust. And one way of building trust is to do what you say you're going to do. Such as following what ever laws are in place. I'm just advocating a free hand in order to deal with the various situations that arise.

Also, too much policy wrangling kills the creative initiative behind creative processes and member participation.

I like your posts too; my forum PMs here are hugely overflowing due to a change a while back in how they are stored, but I'd definitely support an application. Our foreign affairs aren't much different from TFD's but internally we are a ton different.

Hey there K, very sad, yet excited to see friends feel the need to set out on their own. Please whatever you do stay in touch with us over at Olympus, I wish you luck on your journey. I will plagiarize a bit and copy Grendels recruitment post is it really does sum Olympus up very well.

Do not join Olympus, if you are looking to receive a sign on bonus. While there will be alliances that will be offering you money to join their alliance, Olympus will not. We want friends and partners, so we do not buy members. If that bothers you then we are not suited for you.

Do not join Olympus if you expect assurances that you will be protected from harm, Olympus will not. Instead we will assure you that when you are attacked, you will not be alone. We will use all of our diplomatic acumen and leverage to get it resolved quickly and satisfactorily. We will help you with the fight even if we have to go down in flames to do it. We will use all of our knowledge and resources to aid you in a quick recovery. What we will not do is assure you, you will not have to fight from time to time.

Others will tell you they have sure fire ways to grow your nation, or this trade circle is best for you or you have to buy this wonder by this level but, Olympus will not. We will leave you to run your nation as you see fit. We will offer you advice on setup and growth but it is completely your choice how you run your nation. We will run growth plans, competitions and aid or prizes but if you do not wish to compete or participate, don’t and we will think no less of you. We have several members who have a lot of experience that they are willing to share but it is completely your choice whether you listen to it or not. We will ensure that all the advantages and tools we have will be available to you but we will never force our opinions on you. You are a sovereign ruler, make your own decisions.

Some will tell you how great their government is or how strong their military is, not Olympus. What we are is a family. Those who are accepted as members are embraced and accepted as family and like with families there will be times when members have to leave the nest for various reasons. With Olympus you will know that you will always have a place to come home too. Like a family though, “God forbid those who would harm our family” we will fight to the bitter end to protect our family.

Many will tell you how important you are as a member but will then tell you it takes time to move up in government, you must have patience. Not so with Olympus instead we encourage all members, who wish to, to run for government, to actively contribute to growth and well being of our alliance. If you find you are having troubles with your government position there will always be others who will step in to help you out.

Quite a few alliances take great pride in their elaborate government structures and e-lawyering charters, not Olympus. We like it simple and straight forward, below is the preamble to our charter and pretty much says it all:

Preamble: Olympus is a union of CyberNations rulers dedicated to the values of community, activity, cooperation, respect, growth, excellence, and honesty. We are not just an alliance, but every one of us is part of the family. Each of us will strive to uphold these values in our daily interactions with fellow Olympians as well as with all CyberNations players no matter their alliance affiliation. Each of us is obligated by our charter to uphold these core values and to strive for the protection and good of our community in all we do.

Full Charter Link:

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Olympus_Charter

What does Olympus ask of you? Not a lot, be a good honest friend, help fellow members and allies and most of all do so with honor. If you do those few things you will gain more than you may realize now.

What will Olympus do for you?

1. We will be there for you when you need us

2. We will treat you with respect and friendship

3. We will give you all the assistance you need and on your terms

4. We will allow you to be as active or inactive as you wish

5. We will be your home for as long as you wish

If you are interested in getting more information you can contact any Olympus member or follow the following link to our forum:

http://www.jeffjackson.us/Olympus/viewforum.php?f=10

If you are an IRC user please come and visit our public IRC Channel and speak to any of us.

Server: irc.coldfront.net

Channel: #cnolympus

Our Wiki: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Olympus

If you have questions you wish to leave here please feel free to and one of us will be by to answer them.

edit: double quotes here is bad mkay?