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Don't give up on society...


The MVP

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This day many years ago, when I first starting out in university, marked a very important day for me that I will never forget. Before I begin this isn't a lecture nor is it here to teach a lesson since I'm no person to discuss morals with others but what I do have is a story.

Many years ago I was in calculus, I personally, felt the class was very easy. Perhaps it was just me. Now we all know those in class that will go through any means necessary to find every way possible to get as many points as possible, in the easiest manner possible just to get through with a good grade - many of them cheat. We all witness this yet many are afraid to speak up and tell the teacher they are cheating for fear of being a "tattle tale" or being thought of as a jerk. I am no saint, far from it.

I will call fouls while playing basketball or even lie to get out of a rough situation, but honestly it has never occurred to me to cheat in my life. Cheating is pointless and some, not even most, of the time it catches up to you. Being religious, I'd rather cheat on my wife than cheat on myself and my classmates; it just never occurred to me. I came here and many did it. Some more discretely than others, and maybe only a few got caught. I had a feeling most teachers just didn't care, that they were just okay with letting it go and that those that cheated just didn't have it in them to study. I felt that cheaters do prosper and they will get away with things because the instructor's simply just don't care. Well on this day many years ago, I was wrong. Very, very wrong.

The previous class my friend saw someone cheating, a person notorious for cheating and not only that but also stealing. I have reasonable doubt to assume, from others, that this individual stole my expensive chemistry book, physics book and graphing calculator. Being poor and having no money to my name living with my uncle and relative family at the time, this was devastating. Having to work minimum wage open to close on weekends and a significant amount on Thursday's and Friday's showed how desperate I was to make tuition. Yet this person was born into a well to do family with a brilliant father who was a renowned scientist. Everyday it seemed he was showing his friends something new and exciting. Well apparently he bought a cell phone that could scan problems and show it to him whenever he felt like it. I noticed it, since he showed me. He copied the answers to my problems once when he didn't do his homework, he usually does his homework though and I'll get to it later.

Now back to the main story. At the beginning of class we're given quizzes to do. The teacher let's us keep the quizzes until the end of class if need be so long as we don't have any notebooks or anything on the table. When most hand in their quizzes, he resumes with class. Now the person in question sometimes kept his quiz until the end. He always used his cell phone. And why? He had a graphing calculator, hell maybe even mine!, on his desk. Anyways to top it off, he not only used his cell phone, but during class he'd use his notebook when no one was looking. My friend caught it, we also believe he stole my friend's calculator as well from others, and felt enough was enough. As the guy handed in his quiz at the end of class my friend came to the teacher right after and straight up told him, "[Name] was cheating." The teacher seemed a bit quiet about it. He said, "Cheating? Well this needs to be addressed. I don't know if I need to have everyone hand it in early or what, I know some need a longer time on the quizzes than others but if I need to I will make everyone turn it in at the same time most do to get on with class." Now originally I had intended to just ask the teacher a question and stay out of it, but I then said, "[Name] has a phone that can scan the problems and bring it up on his cell phone." The teacher all of a sudden took this into more consideration and said, "I will handle it."

Two days later we had class again. We had a bad semester. Many issues arised and it seemed like the teacher, who was very nice by nature and to other classes and was said to have never yelled in class, seemed to yell at us everyday. Asking there is just something about this class that is just.. off. Well one day he brought up a document that we have all seen before. The teacher exclaimed, "this is the most painful thing I've had to do so far." Some ditsy girl asked, "what is that?" The teacher said, "you should know it because you all signed it at the beginning of the year." The document entailed was something called the Pitt Promise.

He especially highlighted the section that said:

# I will commit myself to the pursuit of knowledge with personal integrity and academic honesty;

# I will respect the sanctity of the learning environment and avoid disruptive and deceitful behavior toward other members of the campus community;

And he said, "I am seeing cell phones out. Now is there an app you are using to get the answers? I know you're not texting someone and I know you're not using it as a calculator since you already have graphing calculators sitting on your desk. Now is it possible that some of you are scanning questions from the homework, (as the questions on the homework were exactly the same on the test, one question from each section) is it really possible that some of you are so deceitful that you would do such a thing?" Someone astutely remarked, "but who would take pictures of the questions on the homework and do that though? Seems like too much trouble, they're probably cheating through other means." The class laughed and the teacher merely shrugged sort of laughing saying, "I don't know, but is it not reasonable to assume that there is cheating going on when cell phones and calculators are out at the same time? I mean if some of you put in 20% of the effort you use getting around these things you can easily understand this material."

He then turned serious and in a very calm and respectful manner, unlike his usual yelling when people interrupted his class unfairly, said, "This hurts the most. Because I can deal with a lack of respect towards me. But please have the integrity to have that respect towards your classmates and to yourselves because this is at the very heart of your character."

We got on with class. The first thing we reviewed was the quiz. My friend who had told on the guy scored a 5/10 on the quiz, visibly upset. Whereas the guy who cheated scored a 9/10 and interrupted the teacher asking why he missed a point and felt he should get it back. The teacher simply replied, "just talk to me after class about that" as if it were nothing. My friend was very upset. How could he, who took the test honestly, be content with a 5/10 when a guy who cheated scored a 9/10 and was asking for points? He felt the teacher was a sell-out, I did. As if what he said meant absolutely nothing at all. I thought my friend was just going to storm out of the room in anger but he stuck around for something, he put up a problem on the board.

We usually have something called "board problems." Problems from the homework that the teacher designates to put on the board and then explain them to the class as to how we got that answer for bonus points. Now of course the guy who cheats always wants to steal the board problems. We had previously come to a consensus, as a class that if you do a board problem one day you don't do one a next since they were limited and to give others a chance. The guy lashed out saying, "that's not fair, no! I don't agree to that." And the matter was put to rest. Now my friend and I each put a problem on the board, yet the other guy decided to put up 3, the maximum you can put up, stealing points from others.

Now the teacher asked me to explain my problem, I did. Although I messed up the domain since I didn't read the question properly he still accepted it and said, "good." He then asked my friend who explained his question well and the teacher said, "good." Now it came time to ask the person who cheated how he got his answers. I thought he would get away with it, but the teacher did something I never expected and probably one of the coolest things I have ever seen.

Now the guy can't explain his problems. As was found out, he usually goes into the library and gets the solution's manual and copies it all word for word, letter by letter. So of course when it comes time to explain it, he makes stuff up to get through it having to get the teacher to explain it. The teacher usually allows it. Well not this day, not today. One of the problems involved exponential functions using half life. Now although I don't recall the problem, I do remember the particular issue in question which was so simple.

Now the guy had the ln(1/2) and then on the next line he all of a sudden had ln(-2). The teacher asked how we got it. The guy stuttered, "yeah well the 30 there and you take the log of the natural log." He was spouting nonsense for ten minutes, the teacher didn't let up. "No! How did you get ln(-2) from ln(1/2)?" He couldn't explain it. The teacher than said, "ln(1/2) is the same as the ln(1) - ln(2) through the property of the division of logarithms. The ln(1) is 0 therefore it's 0-ln(2) therefore it's ln(-2)."

I looked at my friend, he looked at me as if to say, "he got 'em" nodding our head's. People looked at us not knowing what had happened. My friend stood up stretching his arms, I thought he was going to do something but then sat back down.

He didn't continue on with the problem. He said, if some of you would be so deceitful as to copy and paste problems from the solution's manual at least have the decency to explain it properly. He then went on with class.

At the end of class the guy just bolted for the door not asking about the point he had lost on the quiz. My other friend, who had a point stolen by the guy via a board problem he got wrong talked to the teacher saying it's just not fair. He told the teacher, "he comes from a well to do family and gets to cheat yet myself who had it hard my whole life (his dad died when he was young) has to work for every damn thing!"

Thanking the teacher for catching him I looked on in awe. This was the single coolest and greatest thing I have ever seen. The way he approached the situation was so methodical and mathematical in its own right, it was truly amazing. I felt for awhile that cheaters do prosper and that teachers don't care. And for the most part it's true, yet that day I ran into a cheater who didn't prosper and a teacher who did care.

I agree society has become a muck of cheating and taking the easy road out. But no matter how bad it is, never give up on society and stay true to yourself and those around you.

/End rant

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It is a real job, and one that takes up much more time than the hours they get paid for. Grading and producing lesson plans are time consuming.

You mean oppressing free adults with an arbitrary metric based on merit and making lists of unreasonable expectations?

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You mean oppressing free adults with an arbitrary metric based on merit and making lists of unreasonable expectations?

Twelve year old kids are adults now? When did that happen? Anyway, the grading system is by no means perfect, I'll admit it, and neither are the learning standards have to teach, but they are better than nothing. To call it "oppression," however, is simply absurd. As is calling the expectation unreasonable. If anything not enough is expected from students these days, as we have seen educational standards lowered constantly over the last decade.

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You mean oppressing free adults with an arbitrary metric based on merit and making lists of unreasonable expectations?

It's called learning. Kids don't teach themselves and if parents were the ones who were meant to give a well rounded education to their children, there would be hell. That's why we get professionals to do it.

What is with the teacher-hating? Since when is it not a valid profession?

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It is a real job, and one that takes up much more time than the hours they get paid for. Grading and producing lesson plans are time consuming.

Obviously there is a difference between your teachers and ours. 40k euros plus, 3 months off in the summer, christmas off, mid terms off, easter off. Starting at 9am and finished before 4pm. All in all about 5 months off per year and 40k - 50k euros to follow a cirriculum thats set out for you. In class they read from the book and give you a little homework.

Compare that to most other jobs with about a month of holidays per year, earlier start, later finish constant hourly, daily monitoring of your stats for much less money.

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Obviously there is a difference between your teachers and ours. 40k euros plus, 3 months off in the summer, christmas off, mid terms off, easter off. Starting at 9am and finished before 4pm. All in all about 5 months off per year and 40k - 50k euros to follow a cirriculum thats set out for you. In class they read from the book and give you a little homework.

Compare that to most other jobs with about a month of holidays per year, earlier start, later finish constant hourly, daily monitoring of your stats for much less money.

My wife is a teacher, and although there are plenty of teachers out there that do just as you said (follow curriculum with minimal effort), there are teachers out there like my wife that put a lot more into their teaching than just handing out homework and tests. Some people go into that profession because they really do like working with kids and making them better people. It's rare, but it does happen.

Also, holy crap...40k to 50k euros is an amazing salary for a teacher. Teachers in the U.S. would be lucky to make half of that!

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Methrage you seem to lack something vital. Not sure what it is, but it makes you far less appealing as a person.

To endorse "finding an alternative way to succeed" is ridiculous. Using one's phone to pass a test, whether there are clear rules or no clear rules on the matter, is dishonourable and anyone would be right to get angry at a situation like this. I don't see how anyone can be jealous as you've said; it's not jealousy at all, it's standing up for what's right.

You seem like someone who would take "rules" word for word and find ways to work around them so you're not technically breaking them. Which makes sense as you praise this cheater's "creativity".

Somehow I doubt you'll get far in life with that mentality, and I don't sympathise with you one bit.

By the way, the teacher is male. How many times do you need to be told? Maybe read the OP.

I wasn't praising the guy and think he'll do better in life if he doesn't try cheating on stuff, but I think the people who always worry about what other people are doing rather than focus on their own test are worse. The guy with the cell phone obviousely shouldn't of been doing that, but I think the person who complained to the teacher and was unable to mind his own business is worse. I doubt you'll get far in life with your mentality as well, if you eventually have a job and you try getting your co-workers in trouble all the time, nobody will like you or want to hang out with you. Also your wrong about your analysis of me, just because I don't like the type of person who tries getting their classmates in trouble doesn't mean I was one of the trouble makers.

If the teacher caught him cheating I think he would of deserved whatever punishment he got, but its not any of the other student's responsibly to spy on their classmates and try getting each other in trouble.

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I wasn't praising the guy and think he'll do better in life if he doesn't try cheating on stuff, but I think the people who always worry about what other people are doing rather than focus on their own test are worse. The guy with the cell phone obviousely shouldn't of been doing that, but I think the person who complained to the teacher and was unable to mind his own business is worse. I doubt you'll get far in life with your mentality as well, if you eventually have a job and you try getting your co-workers in trouble all the time, nobody will like you or want to hang out with you. Also your wrong about your analysis of me, just because I don't like the type of person who tries getting their classmates in trouble doesn't mean I was one of the trouble makers.

If the teacher caught him cheating I think he would of deserved whatever punishment he got, but its not any of the other student's responsibly to spy on their classmates and try getting each other in trouble.

I don't know why people are hating on Methrage. He's just saying what 90% of people support, anyways. People get uncomfortable with rocking the boat and turn their eyes to abuses all the damn time. "How many times can a man turn his head, pretending that he just doesn't see?" The answer is a lot, Bob Dylan.

Note that I've lost my faith in society because we have a $1 trillion output gap, we know how to fix it, and we aren't doing it!

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Honestly, this story just shows exactly why we should give up on this society. The guy is ousted for cheating and gets embarrassed a little in front of a class that thinks it's amusing, but honestly won't give a damn by the next day? If his friends even find out about it, they won't think worse of him, they'll feel sympathy. We live in a society where oathbreaking carries no penalty, and your story just exemplifies it.

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Honestly, this story just shows exactly why we should give up on this society. The guy is ousted for cheating and gets embarrassed a little in front of a class that thinks it's amusing, but honestly won't give a damn by the next day? If his friends even find out about it, they won't think worse of him, they'll feel sympathy. We live in a society where oathbreaking carries no penalty, and your story just exemplifies it.

The guy got an F in the class.

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What you're showing is when you get jealous of people or they have something you don't, you think its alright to stick your nose into their business when its not hurting anyone, as well as cause other people to start sticking their noses into their business. When I went to school I didn't bother cheating, for me it was easy enough without it. However I never view those who did cheat as low lives, they're just trying to pass the test using whatever ability they have.

If someone has a better memory than someone else and this has been verified, would the guy with a better memory be cheating if someone without good memory is taking the test? What if someone takes prescription meds that increase their memory and do so they can think better, would these people be cheating in comparison to those who aren't on meds? Not everyone is made equally and some people need to try different approaches if they are going to be able to pass, there is nothing immoral about this. They just should be ready for the consequences if they get caught. However its obvious intelligent discussion isn't your strong suit, so don't expect anymore responses as I'm done responding to you.

I'm going to interject right here, to state that the point of learning a field such as math (I'm a 4th year math student) is not memorization, but learning how the rules of math work and how you can use those rules to solve problems. Copying down an answer sheet is highly dishonest in math. The guy in the story clearly was being dishonest, because he was pretending to understand math. When the teacher asked him to expand and explain what was going on, he didn't have a clue. Therefore, he shouldn't be passing any tests.

I think the teacher in the story is lazy for asking the same problems on the test as were asked on the homework, and I think they are also being dishonest as a teacher by providing an avenue of straight memorization instead of learning the actual math. The kid who cheated is still way in the wrong.

You say it's not a competition. Have you seen the job market? It most certainly is. And what happens if he gets hired at some place because his grades say he has skills he really doesn't have? He's cheating his employer out of money. So no, Metherage, you are wrong on all counts. The opinions you have expressed in this blog have demonstrated you to be a man of zero morals. You disgust me.

I'm not sure where you got that idea, but I'm going to assume you were that person in school that got picked on a lot for various reasons, one of the reasons being you betraying the trust of your classmates and not realizing that even most of the teachers face palm and can't stand those types of people.

Oh man, I need to finish reading this blog.

I was 'one of those kids' who was 'picked on.' Oh, poor me. But look at me now. I'm on top of the world while all the 'popular kids' will be pumping my gas in a few years. The fact that you equate high school popularity with success in life demonstrates how incredibly immature you are. Enjoy mopping the floor at your local gas station. Meanwhile, I'm going to entertain myself reading the rest of your comments.

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I wasn't praising the guy and think he'll do better in life if he doesn't try cheating on stuff, but I think the people who always worry about what other people are doing rather than focus on their own test are worse. The guy with the cell phone obviousely shouldn't of been doing that, but I think the person who complained to the teacher and was unable to mind his own business is worse. I doubt you'll get far in life with your mentality as well, if you eventually have a job and you try getting your co-workers in trouble all the time, nobody will like you or want to hang out with you. Also your wrong about your analysis of me, just because I don't like the type of person who tries getting their classmates in trouble doesn't mean I was one of the trouble makers.

If the teacher caught him cheating I think he would of deserved whatever punishment he got, but its not any of the other student's responsibly to spy on their classmates and try getting each other in trouble.

You're making the assumption that everyone in the world is unable to follow a moral code. The guy who told the teacher was the brave one IMO, he actually stood up and said something and didn't let issue just get kicked under the table.

I'll have a tough time will I? All because people who can't act as mature adults don't want to "hang around with me"? Seems I'd be better off from where I see it. I shouldn't need to get them in trouble all the time, and if I was forced to do that then it'd just exacerbate this issue with society everyone has these days.

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You're making the assumption that everyone in the world is unable to follow a moral code. The guy who told the teacher was the brave one IMO, he actually stood up and said something and didn't let issue just get kicked under the table.

I'll have a tough time will I? All because people who can't act as mature adults don't want to "hang around with me"? Seems I'd be better off from where I see it. I shouldn't need to get them in trouble all the time, and if I was forced to do that then it'd just exacerbate this issue with society everyone has these days.

Oh, Ironfist...come on now. You just don't have adult priorities yet. Adults care about not causing a stir so that more people will hang out with them, not about their own views on ethics and morality. You'll know this once you graduate from middle school and become a 23 yr. old.

By the way, I must commend you on your eloquence. I never thought I'd find another middle-schooler on CN that has the eloquence of a family man in his mid-thirties. Kudos.

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You're making the assumption that everyone in the world is unable to follow a moral code. The guy who told the teacher was the brave one IMO, he actually stood up and said something and didn't let issue just get kicked under the table.

I'll have a tough time will I? All because people who can't act as mature adults don't want to "hang around with me"? Seems I'd be better off from where I see it. I shouldn't need to get them in trouble all the time, and if I was forced to do that then it'd just exacerbate this issue with society everyone has these days.

If you think the one who told the teacher he saw someone cheating without even being asked is someone to look up to or if you would want to follow their example, then I'm sure a lot of people will want to avoid you or give you a hard time for trying to get them trouble whenever you see them break rule when it doesn't matter.

Also you're making the assumption your moral code is the only one in the world and everyone must follow it, I think loyalty to your friends and those you work with, which would be your classmates while in school, is a better moral code to follow than worrying about if others are cheating on tests. If your friend is going to get kicked out of college and his house if he doesn't pass an exam, if his friends decided to help him I think they would be doing a good thing. In the real world mostly what matters are your connections and if your not someone most people would want any connection to you limit your options in life.

I think your getting morals and ethics mixed up as well, cheating on a test has nothing to do with morals. Good work ethic is good to have and can improve someone as they get stuff done, but someone isn't immoral for cheating on test.

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If you think the one who told the teacher he saw someone cheating without even being asked is someone to look up to or if you would want to follow their example, then I'm sure a lot of people will want to avoid you or give you a hard time for trying to get them trouble whenever you see them break rule when it doesn't matter.

Also you're making the assumption your moral code is the only one in the world and everyone must follow it, I think loyalty to your friends and those you work with, which would be your classmates while in school, is a better moral code to follow than worrying about if others are cheating on tests. If your friend is going to get kicked out of college and his house if he doesn't pass an exam, if his friends decided to help him I think they would be doing a good thing. In the real world mostly what matters are your connections and if your not someone most people would want any connection to you limit your options in life.

I think your getting morals and ethics mixed up as well, cheating on a test has nothing to do with morals. Good work ethic is good to have and can improve someone as they get stuff done, but someone isn't immoral for cheating on test.

I have no reason to remain "loyal" to someone who is devaluing my greatest investment, nor is this person a friend or peer of mine. My friends and peers are the ones working their butts off together and separately to learn the material required to pass the test. We're the ones working through the homework and asking each other questions about difficult problems. The cheater is a parasite who is taking credit for work that was never done.

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If you think the one who told the teacher he saw someone cheating without even being asked is someone to look up to or if you would want to follow their example, then I'm sure a lot of people will want to avoid you or give you a hard time for trying to get them trouble whenever you see them break rule when it doesn't matter.

Again, I don't see what impact this has on me as a person. If they want to give me a hard time because I'm actively speaking out against immature cheaters, then that's their problem.

Also you're making the assumption your moral code is the only one in the world and everyone must follow it, I think loyalty to your friends and those you work with, which would be your classmates while in school, is a better moral code to follow than worrying about if others are cheating on tests. If your friend is going to get kicked out of college and his house if he doesn't pass an exam, if his friends decided to help him I think they would be doing a good thing. In the real world mostly what matters are your connections and if your not someone most people would want any connection to you limit your options in life.

My moral code isn't (or at least should not be) any different to anyone elses in this instance - which is the only "instance" I'm discussing here. Cheaters should not be accepted. Anyone who believes they should clearly have other agendas that *most* people would disagree with.

I think your getting morals and ethics mixed up as well, cheating on a test has nothing to do with morals. Good work ethic is good to have and can improve someone as they get stuff done, but someone isn't immoral for cheating on test.

I don't think I'm getting them mixed up at all. The cheater has morals that I disagree with, and that most people most likely disagree with (including yourself, presumably?). My opinion is enforced by ethics. Perhaps my wording could have been clearer in earlier posts.

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I stopped reading here, because that made absolutely no sense.

Yeah, it confused me as well. I figured it was either a joke or an Islamic point of view to which I was seemingly ignorant.

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This topic really amuses me.

Surely no one wants people in jobs requiring knowledge to have faked their way through them... right?

Design engineers who cheated through physics/strengths of materials/design courses?

Public defenders who faked through law school/BAR exams?

Mechanics fixing your car who aren't qualified?

No one in their right mind wants to deal with the consequences of this mentality.

One could argue that he is defrauding anyone who goes on to hire him on the basis of the qualifications that he holds (which, after all, is the entire point of the qualification). They are losing resources purchasing something which is not as advertised.

Very true.

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