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The mercy board and the EoG list: Myth vs Reality

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Sardonic

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One of the largest misconceptions about GOONS is the function and nature of the mercy board. I would like to take the time to dispel any myths and misconceptions about the mercy board. I have created two flowcharts to help illustrate my points.

Consider this chart as you read on:

techraiding.png

Myth: All tech raided nations must go through the mercy board to secure peace.

Reality: The mercy board is one of many options a raid target has, it is a path rarely taken. There are two options for those in AAs, they can complete terms for themselves, or harder terms for their entire AA. This will put the entire AA on the no-raid list.

Myth: The mercy board is designed to embarrass people

Reality: The mercy board is designed so that nations have an alternative to paying money to secure their peace. It is for the benefit of our enemies that we have the mercy board, or else we wouldn't have any way to solve our differences besides monetary means.

Myth: The mercy board is the worst thing ever

Reality: The mercy board can be fun for everyone involved, if you try not to take things so seriously. It just requires a little humility and work on your part.

I would also like to dispel a misconception about the EoG list, please consider the following:

methrage.png

Myth: The EoG list is a PZI list.

Reality: The EoG list is not a PZI list. First of all, if you delete, we have no intention of following you, unless you do something to put yourself on the list again. Secondly, we don't care if you're at zero infrastructure or not, somebody might be at it, somebody else might not. ZI is completely independent of the function of the list, if somebody plays their cards right, they can get off the list before hitting ZI, using the aforementioned path. Thirdly, we don't order people to attack the individuals on the list, they can attack them at any time at their own leisure.

I hope this has been informative, please post any further questions you might have in the comments and I will address them.

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Most people don't bother to go through that. They just delete. 20,958 Nations - also thanks to GOONS

20,962 right now. I'll assume the +4 is due to GOONS, just as you incredibly assume the lesser number is due to them.

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I'm so glad GOONS gives raid targets an alternative to paying extortion fees to GOONS.

As usual, you are wrong. We don't ever ask money of tech raid targets, they are free to stop being attacked whenever they are no longer a valid target.

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uh, it's quite obvious how EoG and PZI differ. For a PZI, only the person who placed you on it can remove you. For EoG, both the person who placed on the list, and you, can remove yourself. There is nothing permanent about it.

What I find funny is that almost every sanctioned alliance maintains some sort of unofficial PZI list (committed rogues, former alliance spies who left the game but wouldn't be allowed to return), and they are often the ones most vocal against the GOONS.

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Most people don't bother to go through that. They just delete. 20,958 Nations - also thanks to GOONS

You heard it here first. GOONS caused 21,000 nations to delete.

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uh, it's quite obvious how EoG and PZI differ. For a PZI, only the person who placed you on it can remove you. For EoG, both the person who placed on the list, and you, can remove yourself. There is nothing permanent about it.

What I find funny is that almost every sanctioned alliance maintains some sort of unofficial PZI list (committed rogues, former alliance spies who left the game but wouldn't be allowed to return), and they are often the ones most vocal against the GOONS.

No, ultimately only GOONS can remove an EoG nation from the EoG list. They can allow a show of an appeal, but truth be told if they want that nation to remain at war it will stay there. While I'll admit I can now see and understand the logic behind the Mercy Board (though I still do not agree with it), let's face it, EoG and PZI are the exact same thing. Let's not dance around that fact.

Also, I am the most vocal critic of GOONS. I do not maintain a PZI list at all.

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uh, it's quite obvious how EoG and PZI differ. For a PZI, only the person who placed you on it can remove you. For EoG, both the person who placed on the list, and you, can remove yourself. There is nothing permanent about it.

What I find funny is that almost every sanctioned alliance maintains some sort of unofficial PZI list (committed rogues, former alliance spies who left the game but wouldn't be allowed to return), and they are often the ones most vocal against the GOONS.

Like RV said, it's GOONS choice ultimately. I think the relationship between EoG and PZI is due to Pacifica claiming that they never had a PZI just a Enemy of Pacifica list.

You'll hear it more when more things come up. I remember some talks of GOD when they let KaiserMartens off of their PZI list.

To GOONS: Thank you for making that a flow chart <3

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With responses like this, honestly, Sardonic, why do you bother trying to reason with people?

There is a segment of population who is both rational, and non-vocal, and these people will probably side with the side that is aligned with their general conceptions of reality and fairness. Rational adresses on popular subjects have their place, even if everyone don't get it.

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Institutionalized bullying. We all know you do it but thanks for laying out the framework for us.

Or you could define justice, pubbie, and goon for me, I need a good laugh.

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So nations that do not appeal to the mercy board are always going to get raided then? At least until they appeal to the mercy board/join an alliance/whatever.

That's just it. There is no real difference in his explanation.

1. Not all PZI was across rerolls. Eventually there became the distinction between PZI and EZI. One just ZI'ed the nation over and over, one went across rerolls. PZI and EoG in that sense, have little difference.

2. The "ZI" in ZI doesn't really mean Zero Infrastructure (in this context). It means "We kill you until we feel like it or until you pay up." It's possible, easily so, for a nation to get off a PZI list without ever actually getting ZI'ed. Chickenzilla did it. Certainly some people actually do want to finish the ZI, but that's about the only difference.

3. The same principle of just letting people hit ZI targets without actually ordering people to hit was always there. I was never actually hit myself until I was hitting NPO. Besides, whether you actively order it or not really makes little difference, you are allowing your nations to keep at war another nation for an extended time.

So this is the problem we have with explaining why EoG is not PZI. It's not that people don't understand EoG, it's that they don't even understand PZI. PZI means "Permanent Zero Infrastructure". If there is any context where PZI does not literally mean "PZI", then it's not PZI.

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So this is the problem we have with explaining why EoG is not PZI. It's not that people don't understand EoG, it's that they don't even understand PZI. PZI means "Permanent Zero Infrastructure". If there is any context where PZI does not literally mean "PZI", then it's not PZI.

Actually Mega and you are both correct. PZI is like being on death row, it is a death sentence but stuff like good DNA can get you off, problem is, finding that DNA. EoG as I understand it, is just a guilty sentencing, one where the prosecutor tells the convict, hey, want early parol? We have a work camp program that gets you out early.

My issue is the mercy boards. I personally feel the boards are a perverse OOC violation of the game. What part of the mercy boards remotely resemble the following:

Create a nation and decide how you will rule your people by choosing a government type, a national religion, tax rate and more. Build your nation by purchasing infrastructure to support your citizens, land to expand your borders, technology to increase your effectiveness, military to defend your interests, and develop national improvements and wonders to build your nation according to your choosing

In my opinion it doesn't. Don't get me wrong, do what ever you like with your EoG members, I am sure the vast majority knew what they were getting into before they ended up there. But to force this player created aspect upon players who are enjoying themselves as listed in the qoute above is just wrong. You want their tech and land, by all means take it, keep taking it until they find a way not to be such an appealing target, but find a in game way to let the wars end after the raid.

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My issue is the mercy boards. I personally feel the boards are a perverse OOC violation of the game. What part of the mercy boards remotely resemble the following:

In my opinion it doesn't. Don't get me wrong, do what ever you like with your EoG members, I am sure the vast majority knew what they were getting into before they ended up there. But to force this player created aspect upon players who are enjoying themselves as listed in the qoute above is just wrong. You want their tech and land, by all means take it, keep taking it until they find away not to be such an appealing target, but find a in game way to let the wars end after the raid.

As I understand it, the Mercy Board is just one way someone can gain peace, if they don't wish to do it with any in-game ways. I agree that there's a line that should never be crossed, but having looked at the Mercy Board myself, I don't see that line being crossed anywhere. If I had the choice of paying $3,000,000 or writing a poem, I'd write a poem.

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People are confusing PZI and EZI in here. EZI is across re-rolls, while PZI means you just don't stop smashing the nation until you feel like stopping.

The EoG list is PZI, but not EZI. I haven't seen a single case of EZI in a really, really long time.

As usual, you are wrong. We don't ever ask money of tech raid targets, they are free to stop being attacked whenever they are no longer a valid target.
Then learn to word things better. All indications were that that part of the FAQ applied to tech raids and not your EoG list.

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As I understand it, the Mercy Board is just one way someone can gain peace, if they don't wish to do it with any in-game ways. I agree that there's a line that should never be crossed, but having looked at the Mercy Board myself, I don't see that line being cross anywhere. If I had the choice of paying $3,000,000 or writing a poem, I'd write a poem.

Finally, someone with some sense.

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Actually, we have a list exactly like that, and if a GOON were to raid one of those people, they have to give reps to the nation and probably go through mercy as well.

He explained the difference.

So why make the raiding nation go through the mercy board? Since they are not being attacked by their own allies, I presume it is some form of embarrasing, punitive measure?

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I always understood that PZI was only for one nation. If you delete and reroll you're okay. If you're not okay then it was EZI.

That said, the EoG list could be construed as PZI. However, the major difference between it and PZI is that there is a path out (an easy one too) of EoG for the guilty.

And moralists way to make yourself look like fools again. GOONS: Destroying 20,000 nations since 2009!

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So why make the raiding nation go through the mercy board? Since they are not being attacked by their own allies, I presume it is some form of embarrasing, punitive measure?

Once again, it is one of the ways that the nation can achieve peace (see the pretty pretty flowchart that Sardonic made). And it takes 5 minutes.

BUT FIVE MINUTES IS A WASTE OF TIME you say, yes? IT'S EMBARRASSING you say, yes?

I personally would take a mercy board post to paying any reps at all.

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My issue is the mercy boards. I personally feel the boards are a perverse OOC violation of the game. What part of the mercy boards remotely resemble the following:

It's called "emergent gameplay".

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Then learn to word things better.

Learn how to read a flow chart. The only mention of monetary compensation is in the case of an EoG. The tech raid flowchart doesn't say anything about monetary compensation.

Seriously, I wish our opposition would learn to read and then respond, rather than just respond. How many people have commented with questions that were already answered in the OP? I mean, I'd expect it from HoT, but not you, gopherbashi. That's just sad, man. :mellow:

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Read my reply above.

Since you're quoting me and not giving me an answer I'll ask again.

Do you YOURSELF, your person, your thoughts, and yes maybe even your soul. Do you find those mercy board winners funny? I'm not expanding my question to include other pubbies. I only care about your personal feelings because in the end, we're all here to cater to you :D.

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Learn how to read a flow chart. The only mention of monetary compensation is in the case of an EoG. The tech raid flowchart doesn't say anything about monetary compensation.

Seriously, I wish our opposition would learn to read and then respond, rather than just respond. How many people have commented with questions that were already answered in the OP? I mean, I'd expect it from HoT, but not you, gopherbashi. That's just sad, man. :mellow:

On the contrary Nippy, my comment was in response to Sardonic's half-assed rebuttal to the myth that "the mercy board is designed to embarrass people". Nowhere in his reality does he refute this claim - it is completely possible (and argued by many) that the mercy board is "designed so that nations have an alternative to paying money to secure their peace" while still intended to embarass them in the process.

If you're going to launch a PR campaign to defend the mercy board, have Hidraca do it - addressing the actual myth, explaining why and how the mercy board isn't designed to humiliate people, and giving concrete examples to refute these myths is going to get you a lot farther than anything Sardonic posted.

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On the contrary Nippy, my comment was in response to Sardonic's half-assed rebuttal to the myth that "the mercy board is designed to embarrass people". Nowhere in his reality does he refute this claim - it is completely possible (and argued by many) that the mercy board is "designed so that nations have an alternative to paying money to secure their peace" while still intended to embarass them in the process.

If you're going to launch a PR campaign to defend the mercy board, have Hidraca do it - addressing the actual myth, explaining why and how the mercy board isn't designed to humiliate people, and giving concrete examples to refute these myths is going to get you a lot farther than anything Sardonic posted.

If it was designed to embarrass and humiliate people, don't you think the terms would be more, I don't know, embarrassing or humiliating? The whole thing is really quite silly when you look at it objectively. We ask people to write us poems or draw us pictures. It's designed to add some fun to a situation that is otherwise almost completely devoid of fun.

It seems to me that the only way one could argue that the mercy board is humiliating would be if one had never even seen it.

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If it was designed to embarrass and humiliate people, don't you think the terms would be more, I don't know, embarrassing or humiliating? The whole thing is really quite silly when you look at it objectively. We ask people to write us poems or draw us pictures. It's designed to add some fun to a situation that is otherwise almost completely devoid of fun.

That's exactly the point I'm getting at, and that's why I made my original comment. If Sardonic had given examples like yourself or Hidraca have done, then it would've been a non-issue and I wouldn't have needed to respond in the first place. However, trying to convince CN that the mercy board doesn't humiliate people - simply because it gives them alternative to paying money - isn't going to fly, unless (like you and Hidraca have done) you address the humiliation aspect.

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Request for Samples

http://cngoons.com/Board/index.php?topic=2999.msg29323#msg29323

Here's Spudtech, some of you may recall him over another rogue incident.

Okay Spud' date=' here are the terms. Complete one of these these as soon as possible. You don't exactly have a time limit, but you'll remain an EoG until this is completed. You can do either one of the terms listed below. Complete one and post the results in this thread.

OPTION #1: ESSAY

Write an essay in letter format to Carlos Mencia explaining why he should just stop it already. The letter must be at least 200 words. Make sure to adhere to proper letter format.

OPTION #2: MATH

Please complete my math homework for me. I'm getting behind in class and I'll be grounded if I fail. :(

May 14' date=' 2010

Mr. Carlos Mencia

CEO, Comedienne Extraordinaire

MenciaCorp Enterprises, LLC

1451 Wilshire Blvd.

Los Angeles, CA

Dear Mr. Mencia,

I write today to formally tender my resignation from MenciaCorp Enterprises, LLC, effective immediately. I am currently unable to fulfill my obligations and responsibilities as a MenciaCorp employee and wish to terminate my contract. It saddens and upsets me that my appeals to upper management for changes in workplace protocol have yet gone unnoticed, and I feel that I have no other recourse than to pursue employment elsewhere as well as demand reimbursement for medical bills incurred due to experiences at MenciaCorp.

My specific reasons for leaving MenciaCorp Enterprises, LLC, are as follows:

1. A perpetually hostile work environment, as demonstrated by “morale boosters” given to the lowest performing employees each week by the CEO yourself in your private office, which commonly result in anal fissures and decreased productivity for several weeks.

2. Frequent unethical demands placed upon foreign and internet-only outsourced personnel to avoid federal regulations, particularly the 2009 federal prohibition on the intentional viewing of Mind of Mencia by any persons under the age of 65.

3. The frequent and non-consented testing of experimental drugs on MenciaCorp personnel, for the purposes of increasing the number of persons who enjoy Mr. Mencia’s routines (and universally suffer permanent cognitive impairment as a result) as well as investigating the neural substrates of Mencia-category humorless individuals (e.g., Kathy Griffin, Dane Cook, Louis Anderson, Sinbad).

4. The intentional directives by management personnel towards receiving unconscionable government contracts for Mind of Mencia DVDs to be used exclusively as alternative coercive techniques when less painful methods such as waterboarding are ineffective.

No non-financial recourse may compensate for the emotional trauma of my experiences at MenciaCorp. The medical experiments as outlined in reason #3, for example, were never at any point ethical or legal, and as a result I have been permanently sickened by the daily exposure to toxic levels of imitation Dane Cook serum. I now require biweekly blood transfusions to alleviate symptoms of my illness, which include unnecessary gestures and posture while talking, extremely unnatural speech intonation and rhythm, and bouts of severe cognitive impairment with no memory of the event.

I will drop all litigation if the following condition is met: Please, just stop this madness. Disband the corporation, and cease all research activities. Too many have suffered at your callous, unfunny hands.

Sincerely,

Spudminster A. Techley

[/quote']

Another winning Pubbie http://cngoons.com/Board/index.php?topic=3129.msg30300#msg30300

Here are the terms. You have 24 hours or else war resumes. Submit results here.

Option #1:

You are at the barbers and ask the barber to cut off your fancy beard. Having an amazing beard himself' date=' the barber advises against it. After asking why, he takes you on a magical journey with his enchanted beard, over the meadows and streams, through the jungles and on a magic-beard-ride across the desert. Write up this story in at least 200 words.

Option #2:

You've been bad in class lately and got in trouble. Write the line "I will not kick the back of Xodi's chair" 50 times. You may either write it and scan it or write it using the pencil tool in your graphic editor of choice. Copy/paste is not allowed, and will be checked. So will fancy fonts. Submit as an image.

[/quote']

Well here is the story:

Well once upon a time I was walking then decided to go the barbers to cut my beard. So I went and asked the barber to cut my beard then the barber looked at me and said “Boy' date=' are you crazy?”. I said “no sir”. Immediately his beard transformed to giant portal and told me to go in it. I said “Hell NO!” starring with amazement. Then the barber said, “Boy you better get in there before I go all shoop the whoop on your ass”. So feeling threatened by his Texan accent I went it into the magical beard portal and ended up in in a place of meadows and streams. “Where the hell am I”? I said. The barber said “This is where all the famous beard people hang out”. Then from the heavens came angelic figures, one of them was Jesus ,then Lincoln followed by David Gilmour, Jimi Hendrix and many more beard people. The barber explained that the beard symbolizes success and pride and cutting it is unorthodox. Then we traveled to a strange jungle place. ”Why are we here” I asked, he said “I just felt coming here”. Out of nowhere a shadow appeared, it was a Chuck Norris. Without saying a word he roundhouse kicked to my next stop, a dried up desert wasteland. Here the barber explained that this is the place where unprideful beardless people stay, there was Tom Cruise, Madonna and Rosie O’Donnell and Miley Cyrus. I then woke up in the street dazed and confused. That day I discovered two things, a beard symbolizes your pride and success and that the barber had injected me with LSD causing a drug trip.

I know its not very good but I did my best.

[/quote']

Okay now for some losers.

Actually really I can't cut and paste their examples so I'll have to give links.

So I'll just say, the people you fail at this have not learned an age old adage of being able to make fun of yourself. This is something we Goons know and accept in our hearts.

Life is dull without comedy and comedy is born from tragedy. We SomethingAwful dot Com Forum payers see ourselves as one of the last embodiments of the greatness of the intertubes. We may look down on the rest of you folk, but really it's not with hatred or pity, but more with hope. We look down on pubbies with hope, hope that one day they will learn the secret of the internet and rise above it as we have. To that end the Mercy Board is a tool used to bring a Gentile to an enlightened state.

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On the contrary Nippy, my comment was in response to Sardonic's half-assed rebuttal to the myth that "the mercy board is designed to embarrass people". Nowhere in his reality does he refute this claim - it is completely possible (and argued by many) that the mercy board is "designed so that nations have an alternative to paying money to secure their peace" while still intended to embarass them in the process.

If you're going to launch a PR campaign to defend the mercy board, have Hidraca do it - addressing the actual myth, explaining why and how the mercy board isn't designed to humiliate people, and giving concrete examples to refute these myths is going to get you a lot farther than anything Sardonic posted.

I suppose you're approaching the scenario of being presented with the option of utilizing the mercy board from your own perspective. I can understand how some people would perceive the mercy board as a tool meant to force embarrassment upon another, given that people exist whom are uncomfortable with public displays of their own talents. There are those that dream of having their art appear in the next Magic: The Gathering deck as the image depicted on the "Elvish Horse Sniffer" card, but their emotional state would never allow them to submit their wares for public revue. Sardonic did a fine job explaining how the mercy board isn't meant as an intentional source of embarrassment for the participants. The fact remains, however, that there are those that dread exposure of their talents (or lack thereof), despite our easy-to-meet demands.

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