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The MCXA in the post-TSO era


Rextu

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Last month, Supercoolyellow asked me to help him out in the Ragnarok Embassy. We had been asked the question about what happened during the events of early 2009 when MCXA history took an enormous turn. There is always more than one side to any story and RoK were interested when they learnt the story from my side, that is somebody who respected the existing government, yet was kept in the dark about the events that were about to unfold. This wasn't the first time Supercoolyellow was asked however. Time and time again, people wanted to know what happened and how we were coping. So today, I write this blog about it. I do expect to be trolled by TSO and others wishing to correct me, but fudge it, this is my take on it.

This is what I wrote in the RoK embassy (there was a question about sam, which is why he is mentioned right from the start)

Baden-W├╝rttemberg, or "sam" as he would be known on IRC, was a Co-Chancellor of the MCXA for a long time. When I first joined the MCXA Oloiqui was the other Co-Chancellor. Oloiqui's nation name was "The Sweet Oblivion" and served as the basis for naming the splinter group. Both of these people, along with many other prominent MCXA members such as Dragonaspect, SleepiB, Lakie and Celt (whom later was appointed as a chancellor and spearheaded the TSO movement) were simply unhappy with the way the MCXA was headed and started plans to leave to make a new, small and exclusive alliance. This is the part I simply don't understand, how could they be so displeased with the operations of the alliance that they lead? Not that they ever marketed TSO that way, often making it out like they were persecuted as hardworking public servants who all made a snap decision to leave simultaneously. Gimme a break.

That basically outlines my thoughts and emotions, still to this day. However, the TSO seperatists would say I am missing something. That thing is a person named nc1701.

nc1701 was the High Councillor who exposed the planning for TSO. It didn't come in the form of logs posted all over the MCXA forums but rather through appealing to the new and active members. The keyword used in his speeches was 'transperancy'. It worked a charm. The General Assembly was fired up and the High Council freaked. There were the people who all of a sudden hated the HC, there was the HC who hated the plebians, there were the HC who wanted to stay, there were the GA (like me) who trusted the HC. On top of that were the people who were just jumping ship anyway. And there were a LOT of those.

So the TSO ship sailed and we weren't left with much. There was somebody who tried deleting all the TSO evidence by hacking our forums. There was sup4, there was Francesca (ironically, both dating at the time in real life). Those three worked together to make the MCXA be the way they wanted it, making their own IRC channel to establish plans to create discontent with Gopherbashi, Dr. Fresh and KingEd as part of a campaign to gain governmental control of the alliance; although were unsuccessful on two attempts on polling day. These plans may have been all and well if it wasn't for a radical by the name of Maxfiles, who pulled out the Francesca/nc1701 conspiracy and released the logs to those who could do something about it. Although, to his credit, sup4 was never really wanted to take over with nc and fran. NC left during his expulsion hearing and then left to join the Mushroom Kingdom.

Of course the Karma War was another major hit. The new government was determined to maintain its honour to the alliances of One Vision and The Continuum which had supported it over the years and throughout the TSO split and entered the war knowing that it wouldn't be an easy battle. By then, Francesca had left to the Viridian Entente (due to the High Council's decision to back the Hegemony, if memory serves me right) and we more or less had a clean fight against VE, NV, 1TF and GLOF.

That's pretty much it from the drama side of things. Yet there are a couple of other things I think I should mention.

Not long after forming (and evidence pointing to one of their members spying on and sabotaging our forums), TSO offered us a goodwill aid package of 1.7 billion CN dollars. Was this a bribe to stop us and OV from stomping them? Of course they had the TOP protectorate which complicated things a little bit. But I'll leave that in the hands of the Hegemony-era CN philosophers to debate. Of course after TSO took the side of Karma, there wasn't much anyone could do, except for the invisible hand of CN inactivity itself.

At the time, I was the Minister of Finance for the MCXA, voting against the aid package. Sam and Celt had reiterated that it was a small package, being the size of each of their nations' war chests. Nonetheless, the MCXA High Council were keen to accept it and I was keen to take my time in making sure it targeted the right nations. (Only made more difficult among forum hacks, the withdrawl of Berzerkerweb and members leaving left right and centre). A couple of TSO financiers pressured me for 'lists' threatening to send the aid without specified targets. One even thought the draft list I copypasta'd into an IRC query with SleepiB was the final and complained that it wasn't formatted neatly. The TSO bluff was called in the end and the aid continued to flow in past my term as Minister of Finance.

I think that's it. I'm sure somebody will remind me of something else and I welcome them in doing so. But I think that it is appropriate that I post my thoughts.

I think that somewhere in there, TOP were embarrassed with the behaviour of TSO during their declaration of existence, especially with an inconsiderate rickroll. Perhaps deep within they thought twice about their decision to protect TSO after the controversy of their creation, which was only mentioned on the Continuum leadership forum a few days prior to the DoE. In fact, Moo and Electron Sponge discussed it on the CN Talkshow, both showing sympathy towards the MCXA left behind, but their comments reassured me: Gopherbashi and Dr. Fresh would take good care of the MCXA. And that, they did.

These days, I am Chancellor of the MCXA. I understand that TSO too has a new government and that new government wishes to seek ties with MCXA. We can always be friends, we could always fight on the same side of a major war. But I'm not interested in a treaty. Whilst every now and then, there's a small mention of MCXA being boring in the modern scope, I don't care. We're not out here to troll and/or comment on every OWF thread, we're here to be the best we can be.

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Its one thing if your not interested in a treaty if you don't think the two alliances are on the same page or have no similar interests, its another if your not interested because you hold a past grudge. The former is good foreign affairs, the latter is a dangerous mindset of retribution, and if thats the case, dig two graves.

Interesting account none the less.

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I'm not completly in the know of what happened during the formation of TSO, but after reading your story I have two remarks.

were simply unhappy with the way the MCXA was headed and started plans to leave to make a new, small and exclusive alliance. This is the part I simply don't understand, how could they be so displeased with the operations of the alliance that they lead?

Ask Archon, he will probably tell you MK has turned out completely different then he expected when starting it. He will probably tell us it is a better alliance, why is it then impossible that an alliance you lead becomes worse then expected.

After all the membership makes an alliance not the leadership.

Next to that a persons opinion of what he wants out of an alliance can change, As you put it they wanted a small and exclusive alliance. I'm guessing they wanted to be part of an alliance like Umbrella instead of one that had a pretty inactive membership, I also see no wrongdoing there. Or you must prefer they kicked out 80% of the non-"elite" members MCXA had at that time.

nc1701 was the High Councillor who exposed the planning for TSO. It didn't come in the form of logs posted all over the MCXA forums but rather through appealing to the new and active members. The keyword used in his speeches was 'transperancy'. It worked a charm. The General Assembly was fired up and the High Council freaked. There were the people who all of a sudden hated the HC, there was the HC who hated the plebians, there were the HC who wanted to stay, there were the GA (like me) who trusted the HC. On top of that were the people who were just jumping ship anyway. And there were a LOT of those.
Not that they ever marketed TSO that way, often making it out like they were persecuted as hardworking public servants who all made a snap decision to leave simultaneously

The above two quotes and what I heard earlier about the situation made me to conclude the TSO founders were planning on the following scenario:

They would quietly pull out of Government positions one by one over the course of two months and then start TSO. Which made sure MCXA had some continuity in their government.

Apparently that didn't fell well with some other MCXA members, with drama happening and they probably thought "$%&@ it" and left immediatly. Which may be very disliked by most people, but it still happens far more often then only at MCXA.

They maybe made some stupid moves afterwards but after reading your story I still feel they had the best intentions for everybody when starting it. You even tell us they didn't advertise their alliance to other MCXA members.

In my humble opinion you can't blame 35 people , although there may have been made some major mistakes down the road, but who probably always worked their $@! of for your alliance and made it a strong political entity, for choosing their own way.

If an alliance which had at the time around 600 members can't find other people to take their place their is something completely wrong anyway with that alliance.

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I'm not completly in the know of what happened during the formation of TSO, but after reading your story I have two remarks.

Ask Archon, he will probably tell you MK has turned out completely different then he expected when starting it. He will probably tell us it is a better alliance, why is it then impossible that an alliance you lead becomes worse then expected.

After all the membership makes an alliance not the leadership.

Next to that a persons opinion of what he wants out of an alliance can change, As you put it they wanted a small and exclusive alliance. I'm guessing they wanted to be part of an alliance like Umbrella instead of one that had a pretty inactive membership, I also see no wrongdoing there. Or you must prefer they kicked out 80% of the non-"elite" members MCXA had at that time.

The above two quotes and what I heard earlier about the situation made me to conclude the TSO founders were planning on the following scenario:

They would quietly pull out of Government positions one by one over the course of two months and then start TSO. Which made sure MCXA had some continuity in their government.

Apparently that didn't fell well with some other MCXA members, with drama happening and they probably thought "$%&@ it" and left immediatly. Which may be very disliked by most people, but it still happens far more often then only at MCXA.

They maybe made some stupid moves afterwards but after reading your story I still feel they had the best intentions for everybody when starting it. You even tell us they didn't advertise their alliance to other MCXA members.

In my humble opinion you can't blame 35 people , although there may have been made some major mistakes down the road, but who probably always worked their $@! of for your alliance and made it a strong political entity, for choosing their own way.

If an alliance which had at the time around 600 members can't find other people to take their place their is something completely wrong anyway with that alliance.

You're mostly correct. TSO did have a slow withdrawl plan which was to some extent, conceited. Whilst I understand some prefer a smaller alliance, why would they work so hard to make the alliance they created become bigger and bigger? I think in these situations, it is nothing less than honourable to stay in what you have created. Furthermore, the MCXA Government at the time were very close knit. They were together in their own forum section before the split (nothing wrong with that) yet the 700 member buffer somehow spoiled their party.

Nobody doubts what the members who went on to found TSO did for MCXA, after all, they made it. But it is pretty clear that their sudden exodus had a big impact on the health of the MCXA, not to mention the steady decline in overall CN activity. But do not forget the good that stayed behind. Gopher and Fresh were both competent leaders and both found a government who were keen to lead from the ashes. It definitely was not a case of not being able to find leaders, but rather the very sudden shift and drama that surrounded it.

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This is silly.

But, whatever. It was a lose/lose situation for Sam, Iggy, etc. In order for MCXA to become what they wanted it to be, they would have needed to purge most of the membership - full out elimination of 75% of the membership. That would have been !@#$% crazy and people like Rextu would have screamed bloody murder. So, instead, they pulled away to allow MCXA to continue on a course of quantity > quality. And, here we are 549 Days later and Rextu is still screaming bloody murder.

This is silly.

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This is silly.

But, whatever. It was a lose/lose situation for Sam, Iggy, etc. In order for MCXA to become what they wanted it to be, they would have needed to purge most of the membership - full out elimination of 75% of the membership. That would have been !@#$% crazy and people like Rextu would have screamed bloody murder. So, instead, they pulled away to allow MCXA to continue on a course of quantity > quality. And, here we are 549 Days later and Rextu is still screaming bloody murder.

This is silly.

Hai watchmen. I must disagree with your summary of Rextu's post as "screaming bloody murder" Its far too long to be screamed. Also I have to take issue with your mantra of quality vs quantity. We're you aware that MCXA is only 7K below TSO's average NS? As far as activity, we have had 22 ppl on our forums in the past two hours. Our forums have been getting so active its become a challenge for me to keep up on my slow ISP. On TSO's forums, there has been 1. Me, and 2. You on the forums in the past two hours, at this moment.

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supercoolyellow, your looking at numbers that are not even close to what they were when the split occured. Our average nation strength at that time was close to 60,000 (i think) and yes you are right our forums have always been dead for the most part. Private IRC channels and in-game contact is were most of us talk. I was one of the founders of MCXA so you will not see me speak badly of them but did we really need another post about this?

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Hai watchmen. I must disagree with your summary of Rextu's post as "screaming bloody murder" Its far too long to be screamed. Also I have to take issue with your mantra of quality vs quantity. We're you aware that MCXA is only 7K below TSO's average NS? As far as activity, we have had 22 ppl on our forums in the past two hours. On TSO's forums, there has been 1. Me, and 2. You on the forums in the past two hours, at this moment.

Lol so even with most of our tech gone, and half our membership also gone we are still above you in avg NS, as for the forums you probably have a lot more membership then we do.

I see Rextu that he does not know why MCXA were paid 1.7 billion it seems that your former leader Dr Fresh didn't reveal the IRC logs of his conversation with Celt over the matter lets just say that it could have been paid in a different currency then CN dollars

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Just so you all know. When we left MCXA, yes we wanted to leave slowly and train people. and yes when people found out we were leaving, we got asked if they could join. heck, I asked to join, granted i was one of the first people in the group leaving. originally it was going to be 2 people that were leaving. but the loyalty and friendship that most of us had, made us want to be together.

Don't get me wrong, its not that I didnt like some of the people in MCXA. Rextu you were one of the great people there. but for most of us, we got tired of the bickering and the personal (OOC) attacks on our friends. we had, had enough. Do i still talk to MCXA members, yes, because some of them are great people and i consider friends in CN. I spent 2 YEARS building up MCXA, building guides for new members, training, working. I dont want to see it fail. that would be a waste.

yes we did agree to pay 1.7 billion to MCXA, you guys asked for a LOT more than that. some may say you deserved more. but lets remember this. When we left. we handed over the forums. the forums that one of our members was paying for out of pocket. at NO COST to MCXA. we didnt have to do that, but we did. we left all the guides, all the posts, and all the work that we had done personally for MCXA. I do know that your forums were hacked but it wasnt by TSO and they did get more than just "TSO evidence" as you call it. they went after everything, if i remember correctly. most of the forum accounts were gone.

honestly though, its been over a year and a half. and this topic is still getting brought up. sure ok, that makes sense....

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yes we did agree to pay 1.7 billion to MCXA, you guys asked for a LOT more than that. some may say you deserved more. but lets remember this. When we left. we handed over the forums. the forums that one of our members was paying for out of pocket. at NO COST to MCXA. we didnt have to do that, but we did. we left all the guides, all the posts, and all the work that we had done personally for MCXA. I do know that your forums were hacked but it wasnt by TSO and they did get more than just "TSO evidence" as you call it. they went after everything, if i remember correctly. most of the forum accounts were gone.

honestly though, its been over a year and a half. and this topic is still getting brought up. sure ok, that makes sense....

If memory serves me right, we were still having our forums hosted by Berzerkerweb, which was free (or close enough to it) if a request was made to the server admin. If I am correct again, Dr. Fresh paid for the next set of hosting.

It does make sense because I want to make two things clear to the neutral spectators of Bob: 1. the detailed story of what happened from our perspective and 2. That we are no longer an alliance in transition. We are a growing alliance, seeking new ties that work well with those that have been with us for years. We have a fresh government of very competent individuals and are willing to take the MCXA to a bright future.

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If memory serves me right, we were still having our forums hosted by Berzerkerweb, which was free (or close enough to it) if a request was made to the server admin. If I am correct again, Dr. Fresh paid for the next set of hosting.

things changed when we changed the domain and other hosting things because berzerkerweb would not allow us to put in things we wanted like an arcade, we had a few members offer to host it but we didnt go with that. so the price went up quite a bit. i talked with Olo several times about it since he was the one dishing out the cash.

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Then why do you have to keep bringing them up?

I brought it up because there is still a large degree of uncertainty about the history of the MCXA during that period. As I said, SuperCoolYellow was asked several times to which he could not answer as he was in a different alliance at the time. One of the first things RoK asked in our embassy was what happened [from our perspective]. By no means is this a nostalgic complaint, it is a statement intended to close the speculation and to clearly state that we are headed forward.

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Its one thing if your not interested in a treaty if you don't think the two alliances are on the same page or have no similar interests, its another if your not interested because you hold a past grudge. The former is good foreign affairs, the latter is a dangerous mindset of retribution, and if thats the case, dig two graves.

Holding a grudge is a terrific reason to refuse a treaty.

The dangerous mindset of retribution is when you declare war in order to fulfil a grudge.

If you don't like someone, though, you shouldn't treaty them. That should be obvious by now.

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