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When diplomacy fails...


Rush Sykes

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Since my rise to the position of MoFA of Athens, I have always made it a point to protect and repair Athens image in all of my dealings. To this end, I am exceedingly polite and diplomatic in all of my dealings. Even to the point of leading nearly every diplomatic inquiry with an apology for having to take peoples' time. In the end, this is a game, and those people within the game have a life going on around them. Today, my faith in the simplest of diplomacy was shattered.

You see, Back near the end of April, I was looking around for tech dealers to buy tech from. I found a thread in the Black Market forum started by the alliance FAR. It listed no frills tech sellers. The instructions, if I recall correctly, said simply to send them the money, and I would receive the tech. I forget the exact date, but I will assume it was April 30(you will see why later). I clicked on one of the linked nations in the post(this nation....http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=392444)... and sent the $3 million. On May 9th, I received the following message from this nation (it will be pasted in IRC Query format... I had originally saved the message on CN, but it only saves for 30 days.)...

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> To: Rush Sykes From: Great1 Date: 5/9/2010 5:22:06 PM

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Subject: Tech Deal Reminder....

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Message: Hey dudes...

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> this is to Lord Gen, Anotoneher, Jerahoam, Mason Storm, and Rush Sykes.

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Reminder: 4 of you have tech due the same day and Rush you are the day after.

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I will only buy 50 tech at a time so its cheaper for me. So one accepts, then others may need to wait a bit until I log back in to rebuy tech.

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Anyway, everyone will get their tech just be sure to log in daily to check so we can get this all done.

The message was standard, and at the time I received it, it was no big deal to me. The next day went by. No tech. The following day, no tech. Another day... no tech. After several days, I sent this nation a friendly in-game reminder. Pointing out to him that the other 4 had all received their tech, and that I had not. I assumed it was just an oversight, so again, at the time, no big deal, I explained to him, in the message, that sending all the offers out at once is ok, cuz if he doesnt have the tech to fill it, the offer will stay in place till he does, and doing so will not waste precious days on the aid slot. Day after day goes by, he doesnt even open the message. His nations inactivity days are mounting up. They got in the high teens , so I assumed he just quit the game. It is not my style to hold FAR as an alliance, responsible for 1 bad seller who quits, so, at the time, I wrote it off as a loss. A few days later, however, I checked his nation to see if it had deleted. It was now at 2 days inactive. He had collected. Meaning, he totally just blew off my message. Did not even open it or make any effort to address it. It was, at this point, I contacted FAR government. During this contact, I had a pleasant chat with StealingPandas. Log:

[15:57:44] <StealingPandas[FAR]> Hey

[15:57:52] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> hello

[15:58:11] <StealingPandas[FAR]> I'm FAR gov, what did you need?

[15:58:27] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=392444

[15:59:12] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> That nation... entered a tech deal with me about 3 weeks ago... I have not yet received the tech... I waited so long to talk to you, because a few days back. he was 19 days inactive, and I assumed he just quit

[15:59:23] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> but, since, he has collected and what not

[15:59:34] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I messaged him in game 2 times... no answer

[16:00:41] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I know the aid slot no longer exists... but I have the message he sent me in game 2 days before the tech was due....explaining that he would buy in lots of 50... as he owed 5 people tech...

[16:00:44] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> standard stuff

[16:01:05] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> the other 4 he mentioned in the message, got tech on that day

[16:01:08] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I never did

[16:01:28] <StealingPandas[FAR]> I believe you... and he has 50. I have no idea why he wouldn't send it

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> To: Rush Sykes From: Great1 Date: 5/9/2010 5:22:06 PM

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Subject: Tech Deal Reminder....

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Message: Hey dudes...

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> this is to Lord Gen, Anotoneher, Jerahoam, Mason Storm, and Rush Sykes.

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Reminder: 4 of you have tech due the same day and Rush you are the day after.

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I will only buy 50 tech at a time so its cheaper for me. So one accepts, then others may need to wait a bit until I log back in to rebuy tech.

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Anyway, everyone will get their tech just be sure to log in daily to check so we can get this all done.

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> thanks

[16:01:45] <StealingPandas[FAR]> I'll message him, and if he won't pay it then we'll find a way of getting it to you

[16:01:48] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> thats a copy and paste of the message he sent

[16:01:58] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I have it saved if you need a screenie

[16:02:35] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> any assistance you can provide is appreciated.... thank you very much

[16:03:26] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> also... if he refuses to pay, personally, I wouldnt want another FAR nation to be punished by having to send for him

[16:03:41] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> we can cross the "what if he doesnt pay" bridge when it comes

[16:05:17] <StealingPandas[FAR]> Ok, I messaged him. If there is no reply or if he doesn't cooperate then we'll figure out what to do

[16:05:27] <StealingPandas[FAR]> I'll notify you if he replies

This happened on June 1. As of the writing of this blog, my aid slots date back to May 21. On June 1, they would have dated back an additional cycle. It was clearly visible to anyone who looked that I had received no tech from this nation. Following this conversation, day after day went by, I did not bug FAR repeatedly because I trusted in what I was told. I still do trust in what I was told. As such, I can only conclude that Great1 did not reply to the message even from his own gov concerning this issue. Again, his inactivity days began to mount. Once again, I figured he was probably quitting, as he had ignored his own gov this time. Today, however, I checked in on him again. Back to 2 days inactive. He again collected. He has now ignored 2(it might even be 3, i really dont remember) in-game messages from me, and at least 1 from his own gov. Surely, now this matter could be resolved. I again approached FAR seeking to have this nation released to Athens military, as it was clear I would never see my tech from him. In the midst of what was a rather pleasant conversation with Sir Exodus concerning this incident, I received a query from Fernando. It was, at this point.. the pleasantries ended. Log:

[21:23:46] <Fernando12> yo

[21:23:56] <Fernando12> just got word from Sir Exodus

[21:24:36] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> yes... chatting with him now

[21:24:43] <Fernando12> you guys have any proof of him tech scamming?

[21:24:52] <Fernando12> screenshots

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> To: Rush Sykes From: Great1 Date: 5/9/2010 5:22:06 PM

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Subject: Tech Deal Reminder....

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Message: Hey dudes...

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> this is to Lord Gen, Anotoneher, Jerahoam, Mason Storm, and Rush Sykes.

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Reminder: 4 of you have tech due the same day and Rush you are the day after.

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I will only buy 50 tech at a time so its cheaper for me. So one accepts, then others may need to wait a bit until I log back in to rebuy tech.

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Anyway, everyone will get their tech just be sure to log in daily to check so we can get this all done.

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]>

[21:25:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> [16:01:39] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> thanks

[21:25:31] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I had it saved on CN.. and offered a screenie of it to Stealing Pandas when we talked about it before

[21:25:32] <Fernando12> and?

[21:25:36] <Fernando12> so what?

[21:25:37] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> he said not to worry

[21:25:49] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> and CN only saves messages for 30 days

[21:25:54] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> so, it vanished 4 days ago

[21:25:55] <Fernando12> yeah

[21:26:06] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> 4 days ago, he was 17 days inactive

[21:26:07] <Fernando12> but how do we know he did or didn't deliver the tech?

[21:26:13] <Fernando12> this is over a month ago

[21:26:24] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> to be honest... because I have better things to do than make this up

[21:26:40] <Fernando12> yeah

[21:26:40] <Fernando12> but

[21:26:42] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> and pick a random FAR nation to target

[21:26:58] <Fernando12> its a tiny amount of tech in the large scope of things

[21:27:05] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> its 100 tech

[21:27:07] <Fernando12> there is no way to prove anything

[21:27:11] <Fernando12> well

[21:27:22] <Fernando12> your going to put me in the position of believing him or you

[21:27:25] <Fernando12> you lose

[21:27:38] <Fernando12> what you should do is fill that slot and move on

[21:27:38] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> and the mere fact that he ignored your own govs in-game message

[21:27:46] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> IGNORED it

[21:27:56] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> ignored 2 ingame messages from me

[21:28:55] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> seriously... if you want to pain me in the role of the troublemaker here.. so be it

[21:28:58] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> we can leave it at that

[21:29:21] <Fernando12> i'm not doing anything here

[21:29:27] <Fernando12> its been a month

[21:29:34] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> yes it has

[21:29:35] <Fernando12> no real solid proof either way

[21:29:41] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I talked to Stealing Pandas 12 days ago

[21:29:44] <Fernando12> so move on

[21:29:55] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I gave him the message that was sent to me

[21:29:58] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> offered the screenie

[21:30:03] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> he told me it was not needed

[21:30:14] <Fernando12> too bad

[21:30:21] <Fernando12> i have final word

[21:30:37] <Fernando12> your wanting month old tech

[21:30:46] <Fernando12> i dont know if that tech was delivered or not

[21:30:49] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> you are missing the point

[21:30:54] <Fernando12> no i'm not

[21:30:57] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> he went to 19 days inactive..so I assumed he was bailing

[21:30:57] <Fernando12> you are

[21:31:03] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> and I was willing to forget it

[21:31:08] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> he has since collected

[21:31:12] <Fernando12> so?

[21:31:16] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> which means... he renegged on his deal

[21:31:28] <Fernando12> prove it

[21:31:33] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> wow

[21:31:34] <Fernando12> you got a month old message

[21:31:35] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> really?

[21:31:42] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> you really think...

[21:31:46] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I just made all this up

[21:31:50] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> wow...

[21:31:52] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> ok

[21:31:54] <Fernando12> i told you

[21:32:03] <Fernando12> believe him or you...you lose

[21:32:15] <Fernando12> many of our guys have done very well at selling

[21:32:18] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> believe the guy who ignored a message from YOUR gov just to address it?

[21:32:20] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> seriously?

[21:32:23] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> thats your stance?

[21:32:27] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> its fine

[21:32:53] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I will now leave this in Londos hands

[21:32:55] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> Good day

[21:32:59] <Fernando12> cya

[21:33:06] <Fernando12> #FAR if he wants to chat ;)

[21:33:20] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> oh you will hear from him

[21:33:28] <Fernando12> good

[21:33:34] <Fernando12> never talked to Londo

[21:33:38] <Fernando12> should be a treat

### Log session terminated at Sun Jun 13 22:02:19 2010 ###

### Log session started at Sun Jun 13 23:27:39 2010 ###

[23:27:40] Common channels for Fernando12 [ModEdit - IP Removed]: #siberian_tigers, #nsa, +#RoK, #mushroom, ~#FAR

[23:27:40] <Fernando12> you get a copy yet? Londo has one

[23:27:44] <Fernando12> To: Fernando12 From: Great1 Date: 6/13/2010 10:03:28 PM

[23:27:44] <Fernando12> Subject: RE: Did you finish all tech deals?

[23:27:44] <Fernando12> Message: I finished all of my tech deals a few weeks ago. I'm sure if I did sell him tech that I sent it to him. I messaged my buyers like was showed. I had all of them the same day so they had to wait to get their tech. I'm sure all of them received their tech. I quit selling because the hassle and little profit was not worth it.

[23:27:49] <Fernando12> ....

[23:28:11] <Fernando12> Londo said he would discuss it with you...

[23:55:34] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> quit amusing

[23:55:37] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> quite*

[23:56:02] <Fernando12> its a you said he said...

[23:56:09] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> no it isnt

[23:56:14] <Fernando12> it is

[23:56:25] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> 12 days ago when I contacted SP about it

[23:56:35] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> proof existed within MY aid slots that I didnt get tech from him

[23:56:52] <Fernando12> you should have screen shot them

[23:57:01] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> the only reason such proof does not exist now, is me taking your gov at its word that it would be looked into

[23:57:07] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I was told no proof was necesarry

[23:57:15] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> I have the log to support it

[23:57:20] <Fernando12> it is necessary

[23:57:31] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> My aid slots as they stand now... date all the back to May 21

[23:57:42] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> 12 days ago...they dated equally further back

[23:57:46] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> the proof was there

[23:58:08] <Fernando12> Rush, fill your slots with new tech deals. I'm not making great1 send you any more tech

[23:58:34] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> of course you arent... you prefer to believe that I sat around and made all of this up for no apparent reason

[23:58:40] <RushSykes[Athens|MoFA]> and thats fine...Im finished with you

[23:58:45] <Fernando12> k

[23:58:51] <Fernando12> gnite

Essentially, I was called a liar. What should have been a simple matter of diplomacy, ended with me being called a liar. Lesson learned... sometimes some involved parties do not want simplicity. For my part, it began with one nation screwing me over in a tech deal. And ended with an entire alliance supporting such action. And Athens are the bad guys.... Diplomacy FTL.

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You sure do love to make grandiose and flowery (yet utterly empty) statements. Do you practice in the mirror?

:)

No, but I have been known upon the rare occasion to over-estimate the intelligence of my audience. I'll work on that.

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I would say that Athens had plenty of proof provided to satisfactorily prove owed tech, at THIS point it is the SELLERS responsibility to prove that they payed the tech, not the responsibility of the buyer to prove that they didn't get it O_o This whole situation seems backwards to me.

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You sure do love to act like you've got a stick up your $@!. Is criticizing others a hobby for you? Do you practice that in the mirror or does being a pissy princess come naturally?

Actually I found a magical amulet at the bottom of a wishing well,

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You need screenshots if you're dealing with aid scammers. That's just basic stuff that everyone knows.

If you're going to contact the government of the other alliance and ask for someone to be booted for attack, then you need to do so PROMPTLY - don't wait for a month or so to go by and then complain, as it then becomes perfectly reasonable for the other alliance to figure that you probably received the tech and forgot about it.

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You need screenshots if you're dealing with aid scammers. That's just basic stuff that everyone knows.

If you're going to contact the government of the other alliance and ask for someone to be booted for attack, then you need to do so PROMPTLY - don't wait for a month or so to go by and then complain, as it then becomes perfectly reasonable for the other alliance to figure that you probably received the tech and forgot about it.

Im not so sure any further replies in this blog, can top the idiocy of this one. Its reasonable to think that he sent it , and *I* just forgot? Seriously... if you BELIEVE that... then the Purple sphere is VERY deserving of you. Your scenario would require me to FORGET I recieved the 2nd shipment of tech, as I was messaging the seller about not having received the FIRST shipment of tech. Its ABSURD for anyone to believe that could , or WOULD happen. Literally, you made me facepalm... and although we all SAY we facepalm alot, as a figure of speech... I really truly DID facepalm reading that nonsense.

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Im not so sure any further replies in this blog, can top the idiocy of this one. Its reasonable to think that he sent it , and *I* just forgot? Seriously... if you BELIEVE that... then the Purple sphere is VERY deserving of you. Your scenario would require me to FORGET I recieved the 2nd shipment of tech, as I was messaging the seller about not having received the FIRST shipment of tech. Its ABSURD for anyone to believe that could , or WOULD happen. Literally, you made me facepalm... and although we all SAY we facepalm alot, as a figure of speech... I really truly DID facepalm reading that nonsense.

Yes, I've had tech buyers - from Aqua no less - perform this exact mistake.

Thank god I don't have to deal with tech anymore. <_<

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According to Rush's information he was owed the first 50 tech on May 10th meaning he sent the $3mil on April 30th.

So...

April 30th - $3mil sent to Great1, then on May 10th and 20th are the dates when tech would be sent to Rush.

He contacts our government June 1st when he speaks to Pandas. What Rush fails to see is that by the time he contacted our government the last tech slot would have expired on May 30th and prolly deleted by Great1 or even Rush. So its possible that no evidence was there anyway.

He says that Great1 was inactive so did not pursue it? Backcollecting/improvement swapping anyone? Rush could have saved everyone all this trouble if on May 11th or soon after the $3mil slot expired he asked anyone in our gov to see whats going on. Again, he came to us after even the last tech slot would have been expired and deleted by him or Great1.

My only mistake is use of words. When I was telling Rush that in a case of Rush v. Great1 that Rush loses every time...what was going on in my head was Rush is here to get military clearance and that based on the information given I would not be releasing Great1 to Athens Military especially over a tech deal even if it turned out Rush was right. Thats what I meant as far as Great1 over Rush. All I meant was that the info was to incomplete to just release someone for attack so I would be siding with Great1 over Rush in this matter.

What would happen if monday morning quarterbacking was allowed?

First, I talk alot less in query to Rush and just take the info down and let him know it would be looked into:

*Great1 is asked about this:

*Admits he owes, then he sends the tech.

*Admits and refuses to send the tech, then we send the tech and FAR deals with him.

*At no time will any FAR nation be released to a foreign military over a tech deal.

Only time a foreign alliance will be granted the right to attack a FAR nation is if the FAR nation went rogue and attacked them.

End result is Great1 responded saying he paid the tech. Rush came to us after the last tech sent slot would have expired and been deleted by Great1 or Rush. Seeing as its a 50-50 situation in who is right then I side with my fellow alliance member. Why? Because in the end it is only a tech deal and I will not see Great1 torn to bits over a tech deal and evidence that from my point of view is incomplete and came far too late to even be investigated properly.

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*At no time will any FAR nation be released to a foreign military over a tech deal.

At least they asked permission ^_^ I had an unhappy tech buyer nuke a nation over missing tech without talking to anyone -_-

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