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Critique of "The Slavery of International Rights"


Kzoppistan

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*I was moving some articles around and found this one tucked away. Thought I'd share it. It's old, Zenith is disbanded, SNOW is long gone, and I now know who Vladimir is. :mellow:

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Critique of "The Slavery of International Rights"

By Kzoppistan, originally posted in the Zenith Debating Chamber on February 21st, 2009. Formatting and minor editing by Ferrous

The following is a critique on "The Slavery of International Rights," an essay by Vladimir.

This article falls short of convincing me that international rights should not exist. Whether or not I feel international rights should exist is a different story, but this article fails to convince me of anything except the inability of the author to argue a stance, despite the heavy "intellectualization" of the wordage. The author attacks the position of the Globalists and attempts to knock flat their assertions by an examination of the components of "rights". However, the author falls victim to the fallacy of argumentum ad logicam, or simply argument to logic (This is the fallacy of assuming that something is false simply because a proof or argument that someone has offered for it is invalid; this reasoning is fallacious because there may be another proof or argument that successfully supports the proposition.) He may have scored several points against the Globalists if those really were their points that they put forth, but for the case against international rights he's just knocking down straw men. A careful examination of his refutation shows that his arguments are, at best, limited in scope.

Before that look, though, I'd like to point out that since the article details the inter-player relationship the author can be forgiven for thinking "inside the box" because, when you take a long view of it, there already is an international body of rights and enforcement, the Admin.

One of the major points of contention I have with this article is the lack of clarification of what rights the author is talking about.

Onward.

"The idealistic conception that the Globalists – the supporters of international rights – have of the international arena is undoubtedly an attractive one at first glance, and it is easy to see why so many are sucked into its well-meaning simplicity. Indeed, on the face of it international rights are difficult to argue against; after all, who could possibly deny someone their freedom? However, this idealism is based on the mistaken premise that international rights are negative – that they only require others to refrain from interfering..."

This statement can be proven false by simple logic. If I am a person who supports international rights, then that makes me a Globalist. However, that does not necessarily make me some one who believes that international rights are negative (as in, they only require others to refrain from interfering). What if I believed that a world governing body should be imposed to enforce international rights? What then? (the end result of that intention is what he decries at the end of the article, but the points he provides to get to that final argument are weak, thus the reason of this critique.)

"The basis of the anti-Globalist argument is the premise that an international body is required to enforce international rights if they are truly to exist."

Then that premise is false. An international body doesn't have to be created to enforce an international law. By the author's definition: "Rights have two prerequisites in order for them to exist: a law in support of them (whether by written legislation or precedent) and a body capable and willing to enforce that law." Neither of those stipulate that an international body must be the enforcing party. Most enforcement of international laws, such as they oft written "no spying" law, is done by the offended party.

Another example:

"Likewise, if one creates an alliance, there is absolutely nothing to prevent another from immediately destroying it, and so no alliance can be said to have a right to existence."

What the author fails to consider is the fluid nature of rights. Rights are formal rules of entitlement not only created by those with the power to enforce them but also by consensus. (Which we'll examine in a moment) What if, in the example above, that alliance applies for protection from a larger partner. Then it certainly has the right to exist as long as the protecting partner is strong enough to deflect an attacker.

"However, since there has never been a hegemonic bloc either capable or willing to enforce international laws, it is correct to say that there are not, and have never been, international rights."

That statement is incorrect by the point above about spying.

"As should become increasingly clear to the reader at this point, what international rights truly require, and therefore what they inherently symbolise, is an international military dictatorship. The hegemonic bloc would need to claim sovereignty over the world, forcing all nations, alliances and blocs under its domain; thus completely destroying their sovereignty."

Is that not the point? If not, then why was there conflict built into the system? What is the difference between one nation imposing their will by force-of-arms on another nation, and one bloc forcing their will on the rest of the world?

"Conclusion

It is clear when going through the concrete logical motions that are required for international rights to exist that they are not the route to freedom and liberty on Planet Bob, as the idealistic Globalists would have us believe. Instead they are the basis of the slow, long walk to global slavery, where the international arena is overseen by a select few who, through military hegemony, have declared themselves legislative, police, judge, jury and executioner. Is this the world we seek to aspire to?"

Yes. For many, who ever wields complete control over the rest could be considered the "winner" of the game. For those who just want to develop their nations to the fullest can do so within the protection of an alliance.

Ironically, both the Globalists and the author are wrong for the same reason but by different routes of reasoning. The Globalists contend that there should be international rights, like the right to existence- which would make it illegal for one nation to attack another. But that removes the risk factor and is contrary to a major factor of the game. Besides, there already is the right to exist without being attacked, it's called peace mode (if one doesn't want to incur the penalties of existing in peace mode, they have to entertain a little bit of risk, kinda like life. Don't like it? Play a different game. Or enforce your will in this one.) On the other hand, the ultimate argument of the author, despite all the blah-blah above it, is that the method to enforce those rights would make some one an imperialistic a-hole. That is also messed up because enforcing your will upon another is, again, a major feature of the game. To simplify, the Globalists say "Don't do that" and the author says "You shouldn't tell other people what to do" which inherently contradicts itself.

As a counter point to the "against the point of the game" argument (yes, I know, I'm arguing both sides -_- , could be, "the game is what you make it." If all the major powers agreed and enforced a rule that everyone should buy 10 tanks and then decommission them every Tuesday, well, that's the game. Despite the designer's intentions.

Some of the better stances to take involve a middle-of-the-road approach. Let's take two alternatives to the dictatorial bloc the author provided. One in reality and one hypothetical.

Both are international rules of consensus.

The first involves the SNOW treaty. While it is, in essence, an economic treaty, it also serves as a bloc of power and protection. Since it spans several alliances, that constitutes international, if not global. When an alliance joins, they receive the right to not be attack by other signatories. If they are, the bloc, and particularly TOOL, can punish the perpetrators. This is right by consensus. If some one doesn't agree to that charter, they don't have to join.

Let's take a hypothetical example. Let's call it the "Hammer of Ice". If all the major alliances and nations on the white sphere can come to an agreement to not attack one another and pass the responsibility of enforcing that agreement onto the alliance who holds the senatorial position then you will have a extraordinary large bloc of power and rights. If the agreement to rotate the senate position through a roster of alliances, (passing the Hammer of Ice) then it is not an elite few that enforce those rights but rather the whole white sphere. Rights by consensus, law, and enforceability. Now, if there was a person on the white sphere who did not agree to those rights and refused to move spheres, is that the tyranny of the majority over the minority? Of course, but that is also no different from the tyranny of the strong over the weak, the crux of the game warfare mechanic and life itself.

So in conclusion, I think this case could have been much better argued by pointing out the undesirability of universal rights because they conflict with the nature of the game, rather than all the other hoo-ha this guy said.

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Whether or not I feel international rights should exist is a different story, but this article fails to convince me of anything except the inability of the author to argue a stance, despite the heavy "intellectualization" of the wordage

How exceedingly true of everything Vladimir writes.

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You wound me, Chief Savage Man.

I don't find this critique to be convincing in any sense of the word, missing as it does the point from start to finish. In discussing what 'Globalists' argue, it ignores the context within which the article was written back in 2007. Moreover, it ignorantly distorts what is meant here by an 'international right', first through an extraordinarily superficial misanalysis of world politics (the 'spy' example), and then through an extraordinary misreading of the point by turning it into a parochial concern of colour spheres. This is all nicely rounded off by turning to the metaphysical and once again missing the context within which the debate was taking place.

I will expand on these points a little later should I find the time. Interested readers can find the complete original article here: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_Slavery_of_International_Rights

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Ha! He takes the bait, now if only I can reel him in.

You wound me, Chief Savage Man.

I don't find this critique to be convincing in any sense of the word, missing as it does the point from start to finish. In discussing what 'Globalists' argue, it ignores the context within which the article was written back in 2007. Moreover, it ignorantly distorts what is meant here by an 'international right', first through an extraordinarily superficial misanalysis of world politics (the 'spy' example), and then through an extraordinary misreading of the point by turning it into a parochial concern of colour spheres. This is all nicely rounded off by turning to the metaphysical and once again missing the context within which the debate was taking place.

I will expand on these points a little later should I find the time. Interested readers can find the complete original article here: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/The_Slavery_of_International_Rights

Pretty words, Vladimir, but throwing a dictionary at someone isn't making an argument. You say I missed the

context, I say you never even properly established it. So go ahead, illuminate your reasoning, I dare say it could use it, but I warn you, I wrote this a year and half ago as a young buck cutting his teeth on the simplistic politics of this world, a system that you've taken great pains to convolute for your own ends. Let's see how you fare against a seasoned player.

I don't find this critique to be convincing in any sense of the word, missing as it does the point from start to finish.

Then the point?

(*Thanks for the link, the one I had went to the old Zenith forum, so I edited it out. In fact, I may have to go back and read it myself as I can't for the life of me remember what the hell I was even talking about. :lol1: )

*Edit:

Hmmm, after going back and reading the article. I find myself more in agreement now than at the time I wrote the critique. Looking back on it, I think I wrote the critique more to sharpen my pen than anything. The premise, that the enforcement of international rights would require an international authoritarian body, a situation that should be avoided because to willing bow to such would be to place the shackles on one's own wrists, is a premise I myself would probably argue seeing as I have such a disdain for authority and am rebellious in nature.

But doesn't that argument invalidate the justification for NPO's dominance over the red sphere?

And isn't the point to make others submit to the will of the alliance?

To me, it sounds as if you are painting flowers on your sword. In one breath, claiming that one shouldn't submit to any hegemonic bloc bent on establishing a world order, and in the next, claiming the red sphere as yours.

*shrug*

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I'm glad you agree (if sorry that this means we can't spit further polemics at one another over the matter).

As regards the Moldavi Doctrine, it was not a document that spoke to international rights, and so cannot be juxtaposed to my article. By international rights we mean a truly global phenomenon -- a universal and inescapable law that weighs heavy on the mind of every individual. The Doctrine, on the other hand, merely codified de facto Pacifican sovereignty over the red sphere; the practical effect of which was an economic boost for small alliances as they were paid to move elsewhere.

The important line here in this matter is the following: "The hegemonic bloc would need to claim sovereignty over the world, forcing all nations, alliances and blocs under its domain; thus completely destroying their sovereignty."

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I'm glad you agree (if sorry that this means we can't spit further polemics at one another over the matter).

It's a dichotomous agreement, at best. Because on one hand, I don't like people telling me what to do, on the other, I doubt I, nor anyone and especially not any organization, could resist for long the lure towards being hegemonic bloc capable of enslaving the world if I/we had the power to do so. Even a 'live and let live' individual such as myself could probably find a justification for utilizing such power, nor do I think any other could resist the temptation for long either. Frankly, this seems like exactly the article to write to allay the fears of outsiders about one's growing power, while on the other side of the curtain, furiously working to make it come about. Whether that was the intention or not, I suppose only your inner thoughts know the truth to that.

As regards the Moldavi Doctrine, it was not a document that spoke to international rights, and so cannot be juxtaposed to my article. By international rights we mean a truly global phenomenon -- a universal and inescapable law that weighs heavy on the mind of every individual. The Doctrine, on the other hand, merely codified de facto Pacifican sovereignty over the red sphere; the practical effect of which was an economic boost for small alliances as they were paid to move elsewhere.

The important line here in this matter is the following: "The hegemonic bloc would need to claim sovereignty over the world, forcing all nations, alliances and blocs under its domain; thus completely destroying their sovereignty."

Again, while it's quite a leap from a sphere to a globe, I find the distinction a bit arbitrary.

Regardless, an interesting reply. I've been looking for a chance to clash verbal swords with you over something (not because I'm any good, in fact, I'm a horrible debater, but I enjoy it so much that I'm willing to risk embarrassment to do so :lol1: ) but I think perhaps another piece would be better suited to serve as a battleground of fallacious arguments and engorged vocabularies. :3

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I'm glad you agree (if sorry that this means we can't spit further polemics at one another over the matter).

As regards the Moldavi Doctrine, it was not a document that spoke to international rights, and so cannot be juxtaposed to my article. By international rights we mean a truly global phenomenon -- a universal and inescapable law that weighs heavy on the mind of every individual. The Doctrine, on the other hand, merely codified de facto Pacifican sovereignty over the red sphere; the practical effect of which was an economic boost for small alliances as they were paid to move elsewhere.

The important line here in this matter is the following: "The hegemonic bloc would need to claim sovereignty over the world, forcing all nations, alliances and blocs under its domain; thus completely destroying their sovereignty."

so, if an alliance from any other color sphere were to have mass raided the red sphere would it still not be a global incident? what about an established alliance moving to the red sphere?

sorry, but when you dictate something as you did with the Moldavi Doctrine, just because the subject is relatively small, the impact is still global.

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There is a difference between 'proclaim sovereignty over the entire world' and 'have a global impact', Dochartaigh. Every time an alliance is created, every time a treaty is signed, every time a policy is announced -- there is a global impact. The article was not attacking 'things that have a global impact'; it was attacking the creation of a military dictatorship over the entire world.

Your miss the central tenet of my logic, Kzoppistan. The difference between sphere and world is not arbitrary -- no more arbitrary than between alliance and world. The point being made in the quote I posted previously was that to assume sovereignty over the entire world would be to assume sovereignty over every nation in said world, whether they consented or not. It would be to enforce your own laws over other alliances, and to deny any safe refuge from your tyranny. None of the criticisms I made can apply to a colour sphere.

It's a dichotomous agreement, at best. Because on one hand, I don't like people telling me what to do, on the other, I doubt I, nor anyone and especially not any organization, could resist for long the lure towards being hegemonic bloc capable of enslaving the world if I/we had the power to do so. Even a 'live and let live' individual such as myself could probably find a justification for utilizing such power, nor do I think any other could resist the temptation for long either. Frankly, this seems like exactly the article to write to allay the fears of outsiders about one's growing power, while on the other side of the curtain, furiously working to make it come about. Whether that was the intention or not, I suppose only your inner thoughts know the truth to that.

You have strayed from the article here, but I will provide some thoughts anyway.

If one bases their thought on materialism, as I do, then it is clear that individuals will hold different political views, and thus partake in different political activities, depending on where they exist within the superstructure. Or, to put it another way: power has a logic of its own.

One may say something when they are downtrodden and then act completely differently once they attain power (as Karma has perfectly demonstrated). But this isn't necessarily a conscious hypocrisy (though it may be); it is simply the case that your interests have changed, and as such ideas that once sounded rational now sound absurd, and ideas that once sounded absurd now sound rational.

But this is another matter entirely (and one that I have written on before, if you are keen to challenge my ideas).

The point of the article is very specific -- international rights and their practical implications. On this the New Pacific Order wholly and explicitly rejected taking the place of the hegemonic bloc, despite the power it would have provided. Indeed, when Vox Populi first established itself and gained a following, it set out to organise an international 'Bill of Rights', and asked the NPO to become its enforcer. On the same reasoning I had provided the year previous, it was rejected out of hand. [This was noted briefly in the addendum to my article, Despotic Primitivism.]

In fact the the Order took a very libertarian approach to power, allowing alliances to do what they wanted so long as it didn't affect our security. Ironically it was this libertarianism that was turned against us during Karma, as we were roundly condemned for failing to interfere in events retrospectively deemed to be bad.

All that said, I hope that you will continue to read and write on the underlying politics of our little world -- whether in agreement or disagreement with me. I have missed sparring with our mutual comrade, Ferrous.

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You have strayed from the article here, but I will provide some thoughts anyway.

If one bases their thought on materialism, as I do, then it is clear that individuals will hold different political views, and thus partake in different political activities, depending on where they exist within the superstructure. Or, to put it another way: power has a logic of its own.

One may say something when they are downtrodden and then act completely differently once they attain power (as Karma has perfectly demonstrated). But this isn't necessarily a conscious hypocrisy (though it may be); it is simply the case that your interests have changed, and as such ideas that once sounded rational now sound absurd, and ideas that once sounded absurd now sound rational.

But this is another matter entirely (and one that I have written on before, if you are keen to challenge my ideas).

I am eager to do so, but I'm afraid I'm finding little to disagree with at the moment. <_< (Straying farther from the original article, but a bit related to your thoughts, I wrote short piece on such: An Essay Regarding the Nature of Power)

Your miss the central tenet of my logic, Kzoppistan. The difference between sphere and world is not arbitrary -- no more arbitrary than between alliance and world. The point being made in the quote I posted previously was that to assume sovereignty over the entire world would be to assume sovereignty over every nation in said world, whether they consented or not. It would be to enforce your own laws over other alliances, and to deny any safe refuge from your tyranny. None of the criticisms I made can apply to a colour sphere.

The point of the article is very specific -- international rights and their practical implications. On this the New Pacific Order wholly and explicitly rejected taking the place of the hegemonic bloc, despite the power it would have provided. Indeed, when Vox Populi first established itself and gained a following, it set out to organise an international 'Bill of Rights', and asked the NPO to become its enforcer. On the same reasoning I had provided the year previous, it was rejected out of hand. [This was noted briefly in the addendum to my article, Despotic Primitivism.]

Well now that you have provide a context, I can see that you were replying very specifically to the papers put forth by a group that was opposed to the existence of the Order, and so it was in your interest to undermine their philosophy point by point. While I was speaking a bit more generally and somewhat abstractedly about the nature of rights and so forth.

In fact the the Order took a very libertarian approach to power, allowing alliances to do what they wanted so long as it didn't affect our security. Ironically it was this libertarianism that was turned against us during Karma, as we were roundly condemned for failing to interfere in events retrospectively deemed to be bad.

Ironic, indeed.

All that said, I hope that you will continue to read and write on the underlying politics of our little world -- whether in agreement or disagreement with me. I have missed sparring with our mutual comrade, Ferrous.

Ha, I bet! Ferrous is a great guy. I virtually followed in his footsteps up the ladder of gov. He's got a very sharp mind, great integrity, and always took great care in mentoring those interested in politics.

I will keep a lookout for any of your other work, and of course will continue to shape my own political philosophy as well.

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