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The Official Terms Given To TOP/IRON/TSO/DAWN/TORN

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Ejayrazz

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Since everyone and their mother has seen them, I mine as well post them since I received permission from the person I received them from.

Terms of surrender of The Order of the Paradox (TOP), Independent Republic of Orange Nations (IRON), Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations (DAWN), The Sweet Oblivion (TSO), and The Order of Righteous Nations (TORN) - collectively hereafter referred to as TIDTT.

General

1. TIDTT admits defeat and surrenders to the collective forces of the Complaints & Grievances Union, and their allies in Sparta, Mostly Harmless Alliance, The Grämlins, Fark, Nemesis, Dark Fist, The Brigade, The Resistance, Aloha, Aircastle, The Jedi Order, Prism Protection Front, Siberian Tiger Alliance, New Polar Order, The Alliance of Angry Bees, FOK, Christian Coalition of Countries, Federation of Armed Nations, BaCoN, Ronin, Global Alliance and Treaty Organization, Umbrella, Imperial Assault Alliance, Open Source Alliance, Genesis, Eldar, and the Order of the Black Rose.

Reparations

2. TIDTT shall pay reparations in the amounts outlined below. In the case of both reparations paid directly by TIDTT and of TIDTT paying for tech deals from other alliances, it is the responsibility of TIDTT to ensure that payments reach targets specified by the receiving alliances.

3. TOP shall pay the following reparations:

300K tech to the Complaints & Grievances Union. Up to 150K tech may be purchased by TOP from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

25K tech to Sparta.

7.5K tech and $105 Million to Dark Fist.

5K tech to The Brigade.

5K tech to The Resistance.

2.9K tech to Nemesis.

4. IRON shall pay the following reparations:

150K tech to the Complaints & Grievances Union. Up to 50K tech may be purchased by IRON from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

15K tech to Sparta.

6K tech paid for at a rate of 3m per 150 tech for Fark and a Beer Review which must meet their criteria.

6K tech paid for at a rate of 3m per 150 tech for Grämlins

IRON shall agree to provide BACoN with unlimited cast iron frying pans for bacon cooking purposes

a good bourbon review from IRON leaders for FAN

5. DAWN shall pay the following reparations:

10K tech to the Complaints & Grievances Union. Up to 5K tech may be purchased by DAWN from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

5K tech and 200M to IAA (SHARED WITH TORN)

6K tech to Grämlins, 3K of which is paid for at a rate of 150/3m

500 tech and a Beer Review for Fark which must meet their criteria.

6. TSO shall pay the following reparations:

40K tech to the Complaints & Grievances Union. Up to 20K tech may be purchased by TSO from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

10K tech to GATO or it's equivalent in cash at $3mil per 100 or any combonation thereof.

5K tech to OSA and a short essay of no less than 400 words on why GNU/Linux is a superior operating system to Windows. Up to 2.5K tech may be purchased by TSO from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

5K tech to Genesis. Up to 2.5K tech may be purchased by TSO from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

5K tech to Ronin. Up to 2.5K tech may be purchased by TSO from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

7. TORN shall pay the following reparations:

10K tech to the Complaints & Grievances Union. Up to 5K tech may be purchased by TORN from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

5K tech and 200M to IAA (SHARED WITH DAWN)

8. TIDTT alliances and their members shall not engage in inter-alliance aid except aid required to pay reparations.

Length of Terms

9. These terms shall last individually for each TIDTT alliance. When an alliance has completed the full payment of their reparations to designated targets from each receiving alliance, their time subject to these terms is complete.

Amazingly redundant. So far I have heard "NPO has given worse," well who cares? It doesn't mean these aren't ridiculous just because others have been worse. I have heard this would take at least 100 days to pay off (Someone calculate it), let alone people leaving, not being able to pay, or generally refusing to. I am sure we will be losing some people after this, great, just what this game needs. "I love your tears," I am sure that will be mentioned by one egotistical idiot who adds nothing civil to this discussion, mine as well mention it in the initial post.

I am more concerned with the timing. I do not care how much damage an alliance has done, even to mine, I wouldn't give them terms which would jeopardize growth for MONTHS at a time like NPO has done. These terms are ridiculious, and I laugh even harder at people saying "They could have been worse," alright, we get it, but it doesn't change the fact that these will take too long to pay off. "Others have done it," I don't care for it either, just because others had to you'd think they wouldn't wish for others to go through similar situations. Or, best of all, "THEY DID THIS TO THEMSELVES," yeah, they did, but this is exactly what others have done before; causing others to waste slots for months while another side builds and builds. I guess it is how this game goes, I guess you could have asked for more, but good job breaking the cycle. This is a game and ultimately we play it for fun, good job with adding to the problem at hand that this game faces with months of consequences over one war, but wait! Since this is a game, no one TRULY can grasp this concept since mentioning this is just a game is something none of us can accept, therefore we must do what we can to REBUILD PRECIOUS STATS! TOP, you were stupid for the attacks, but these terms are laughable at best. Mind you, these are terms who were only representative tonight. They'll be more most likely.

Even though I was against you TOP in this war, I hope you absolutely refuse these reps and do as much damage as possible. These terms are a joke.

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From your actions in both the distant and recent past, it seems you don't really need a reason to be angry at people.

Lets see, War of the Coalition we destroyed an alliance that clearly stated they wanted us dead. Karma War we entered on the side of most of our allies and actually became good friends with some of our opponents. This war we entered as part of Polar's coalition against a bloc that has constantly trolled us and made their hate for us known. And no we weren't planning to kill CnG, a war came up where we would be on opposite sides and we took the chance to blitz you (yea, yea, you weren't even going to enter. :rolleyes: )

Clearly we have a history of attacking random alliances just because we can. Something that no CnG alliance would ever do. lol

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Hold on. Going to write an entire paragraph about how I am not serious and list references! I'll one up you that way!

300 words or more. Double spaced please! Seriously though Ejay, I genuinely do like you, I simply think you could not be more wrong in this case.

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What's ironic is Sunstar is in ODN, an alliance known for totally fail actions in the past that is trying to put forth a nice reformed image...

Also, reps are NUTS. Keep nuking them to pieces, TOP.

So instead of either a) responding to the legitimate points I made, or b) explaining why you think the reps are nuts, you choose to make a completely off-topic remark and vague attack on my credibility. I don't feel like biting, so how about instead we discuss the issue at hand.

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Yes we demanded heavy reps from NpO. Our whole goal was to destroy Polaris and eliminate them as a threat.

If your goal is to eliminate TOP as a threat, don't expect us to help you with your goal.

Whoops, didn't work did it?

Just as it didnt work for you, this will not work for anyone. TOP will rebuild just as we did... and still be a pain in the $@! to those who regard them that way.

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Lets see, War of the Coalition we destroyed an alliance that clearly stated they wanted us dead. Karma War we entered on the side of most of our allies and actually became good friends with some of our opponents. This war we entered as part of Polar's coalition against a bloc that has constantly trolled us and made their hate for us known. And no we weren't planning to kill CnG, a war came up where we would be on opposite sides and we took the chance to blitz you (yea, yea, you weren't even going to enter. :rolleyes: )

Clearly we have a history of attacking random alliances just because we can. Something that no CnG alliance would ever do. lol

ZOMG some of us trolled you! The horror! Grow thicker skin perhaps? Seriously...don't give me that nonsense that a war arose where you would be on the opposite side, so you blitzed us. At least be honest, Crymson was. The war arose WITH Polar on what you perceived as the side "against" us. Had that exact same war set up without Polar at its helm, you would all still be untouched. You tried to take advantage of a situation, and you lost.

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What I see as relevant is this war. This war that was started by TOP and Co. without cause or justification. Should they have to pay for the damage they caused? It would make sense, but unfortunately that isn't really feasible. Damages taken by C&G alone likely outvalue the entire sum of these reparations by 10 times at least.

In referencing the past, I seek to remind people that TOP has a history of starting aggressive wars with little to no cause. You may notice they did it again a month ago, and I see no indication that they are likely to change their ways anytime soon. As a member of an alliance they seem to have a problem with, that does not sit well with me.

Fine, I'll respond to this. So... I'm not seeing how TOP started this war with no cause/justification. They knew CnG would be on the opposite side, etc. ... But that's been debated so many times it's hardly worth debating again.

I'm not sure where TOP has such a history...? This war, they entered a Coalition war. Karma, they entered, wasn't it through OUT which you shared with them (I admit I'm not 100% sure). WotC, I think they had plenty of reason to declare on Polar, though the tech was not justified. In any case, they declared alongside several alliances, many of which are on your side of this war. In one of the 2nd/3rd GW's, they got hit. These are the only ones I can remember, I admit, but... where is the aggressive nature, seriously?

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300 words or more. Double spaced please! Seriously though Ejay, I genuinely do like you, I simply think you could not be more wrong in this case.

To each his own.

Lets be serious. ^_^

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NUTS!

Good on you for rejecting these terms TOP and IRON.

Also, to the war profiteers...since Planet Bob has now finished its business with WUT and One Vision, allow me to present the following diagram...:

contlulz.png

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The crying reference was not directed solely at you, maybe not even predominantly at you. I do understand your ego requires you to champion a cause and be seen as a pillar of the community that exceeds standards. I get it, I really do. Alas, this is about TOP and friends, not about you. The funny thing is, you call our responses crying. My side is winning this war. I really have little to cry about. What this is about, to me, is the game. See, Ejay, the social definition of this game, does not rest with you. It rests with the community at large. Neither of us are in a position to speak for this games social direction. I do find it curious though, this new love of white peace from TOP. They had what amounted to zero interest in white peace pre-Karma. Then, lo and behold, just about all of their friends were on the losing side in Karma. So they exerted some political pressure to get them more favorable terms. Funny how watching your friends stare down monster reps will change your outlook.

The horror of TOP not being a politcal player for 3 or 4 months... TRAGIC I say! TOP-IRON-DAWN-TORN-TSO... roughly 730 nations. Yeah, thats roughly 3% of the world. Sorry, I dont think even for one moment that will effect, or stagnate the game. I just dont. NPO is still under terms. And the last 10 months can hardly be described as "uneventfu." Your "these reps will stagnate the game" argument fails, and it fails miserably. It will stagnate TOP and friends, and you know what? I dont care. Sorry, I just dont(apologies to a few very close friends in TOP, I hope you can forgive me).

IC has nothing to do with reps? Who made that rule? You? If reps had nothing to do with IC...they would not be permissable for discussion in IC forums. Reps epitomize what a leader of a nation(TOTALLY IC), might want to do to recoup some of his citizens losses. As for why I am so serious... ask around...Im one of the least serious people on here. In fact, the mere fact that you felt such outrage that you had to run right out and write a blog to bring to light the heinous antics of CnG and allies, might indicate, that it is you who are too serious. Yes yes, I know thats a great big NO U, but I am so not serious, that I find great humor in playing the NO U game.

This game has been stagnating for quite a while...I remember when admin had to cap off people coming into the game, when it was around 40,000, because the servers simply couldn't handle anymore people. And the reason isn't because of overly harsh terms or anything of the sort. It's the extremely competitive, arrogant, unfriendly responses that seem to characterize many of the games most active users in combination with the fact that the game itself is poorly designed and overall quite mediocre.

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Funny blog is, well funny.

TOP/IRON and co will either accept or not, very easy to understand that.

Grämlins are not DEMANDING a thing, as happened in other wars due to our codex, we buy our tech from sureendering alliances.

As for you Ejay, you need to get down of your high horse, The lack of oxygen is making you weird

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I don't understand what inter-alliance aid means. Does it mean that TOP nations can't aid other TOP nations or TOP nations can't aid other nations not in top? Or is it both? Either way, I don't see what that would be necessary. TOP and IRON wouldn't be a threat to CnG even if they went off without any reps at the state they're in. And isn't 21.5K tech for DAWN a bit too much? That's 75% of their current tech.

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Fine, I'll respond to this. So... I'm not seeing how TOP started this war with no cause/justification. They knew CnG would be on the opposite side, etc. ... But that's been debated so many times it's hardly worth debating again.

I'm not sure where TOP has such a history...? This war, they entered a Coalition war. Karma, they entered, wasn't it through OUT which you shared with them (I admit I'm not 100% sure). WotC, I think they had plenty of reason to declare on Polar, though the tech was not justified. In any case, they declared alongside several alliances, many of which are on your side of this war. In one of the 2nd/3rd GW's, they got hit. These are the only ones I can remember, I admit, but... where is the aggressive nature, seriously?

Its a generally established unofficial "rule" when you start an alliance war in CN that you state a Casus Belli. Just look at the wiki and notice there's a convenient box for them in the alliance war template. The validity of CBs are often debated, and useful when considering the war as a whole.

TOP's been a part of seven alliance wars in its history now, and three of them have been declared aggressively by TOP against other alliances with little to no CB (I am speaking of the GPA war, WotC, and this current conflict). That's 43% of the time. For comparison, ODN's been part of nice alliance wars, one of which (GWIII against GOONS) would qualify as aggressive/unwarranted. Guess what happened after that? The ODN paid the harshest reparations ever in history.

If TOP had lost the GPA war I should hope GPA would have demanded reparations. If they had lost to Polaris in WotC I feel Polaris would have been right to take reparations from them then. When you declare an aggressive war without cause you should pay for it. When you declare an aggressive war without cause and lose, then you might actually have to.

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Funny blog is, well funny.

TOP/IRON and co will either accept or not, very easy to understand that.

Grämlins are not DEMANDING a thing, as happened in other wars due to our codex, we buy our tech from sureendering alliances.

As for you Ejay, you need to get down of your high horse, The lack of oxygen is making you weird

I voice an opinion and I am on a high horse? Shut up.

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Funny blog is, well funny.

TOP/IRON and co will either accept or not, very easy to understand that.

Grämlins are not DEMANDING a thing, as happened in other wars due to our codex, we buy our tech from sureendering alliances.

As for you Ejay, you need to get down of your high horse, The lack of oxygen is making you weird

I happen to remember a certain promise by the Gremlins to TOP

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"This is a game and ultimately we play it for fun, good job with adding to the problem at hand that this game faces with months of consequences over one war." - Karma War ended for us on 19th July 2009...guess who is still disarmed and under terms, not even being able to pay cause of the war, 7 and a half months later?

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Why is DAWN a new protectorate of IRON, and host to only 33k tech being leveraged for 26k tech. TOOL may not have been on the level of Athens, this is though.

Keep rejecting these terms, let their name continue to get dragged through the mudd. They may not pay for it in NS, but they will in PR fallout.

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Why is DAWN a new protectorate of IRON, and host to only 33k tech being leveraged for 26k tech. TOOL may not have been on the level of Athens, this is though.

DAWN is not a protectorate of IRON at all. They are a fully independent alliance who made their own choice to participate in this war of aggression. Also, they are not being leveraged for 26K tech. Assuming DAWN and TORN were to equally split the reparations sought by IAA, then they are being assessed 12.5K tech in reparations.

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DAWN is not a protectorate of IRON at all. They are a fully independent alliance who made their own choice to participate in this war of aggression. Also, they are not being leveraged for 26K tech. Assuming DAWN and TORN were to equally split the reparations sought by IAA, then they are being assessed 12.5K tech in reparations.

By the most conservative measure (no part of the IAA reps), DAWN is being assessed 16.5k tech. Read your own terms :P

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These surrender terms mean that two of the largest alliances in the game will be all but removed from action for a year. I honestly don't see how that advances the game. Neither does killing two of the largest alliances in the game simply because they refuse to pay a portion of someone's rebuilding costs.

The rule of thumb for wars is that when they go past 3 rounds people start getting butthurt and most players aren't having any fun anymore, either because they are tired of the long hours online or they simply get tired of watching as they can no longer adequately fight back while months if not years or work gets flushed down the toilet. More than a few players will quit as a result.

Everyone is of course free to roleplay as they wish, but as a player I'm completely unimpressed.

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DAWN is not a protectorate of IRON at all. They are a fully independent alliance who made their own choice to participate in this war of aggression. Also, they are not being leveraged for 26K tech. Assuming DAWN and TORN were to equally split the reparations sought by IAA, then they are being assessed 12.5K tech in reparations.

10K tech to the Complaints & Grievances Union. Up to 5K tech may be purchased by DAWN from nations of other alliances at their discretion & coordination.

5K tech and 200M to IAA (SHARED WITH TORN)

6K tech to Grämlins, 3K of which is paid for at a rate of 150/3m

500 tech and a Beer Review for Fark which must meet their criteria.

IAA is only taking 5k from that 21.5k tech. So DAWN will still have to pay 19k tech.

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i hope to god that IAA's name is taken off of the list of alliances taking reps from TORN/DAWN. i refuse to take reps for this war and would hope my alliance would have far more honor than this.

as for the rest, CnG is the only alliances that should take reps. every other alliance that demands it should have more honor.

You know, there is a precedent for alliances seeking separate peace in cases like this.

Or if IAA shared your view on this (and perhaps they will), we may take a big leap forward on completing a deal for peace.

At the very least, some of us would (for real) not forget such a gesture.

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