Dear VE, A dear message from TKTB's supposed spy

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]VE should provide evidence.

TKTB should stick up for their member and not back down like cowards. Grow a pair, and take a stand...IF you are right.[/color][color="#FF0000"][/color]

[Jewelangel]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1292076857' post='2536357']
[color="#FF0000"]VE should provide evidence.

TKTB should stick up for their member and not back down like cowards. Grow a pair, and take a stand...IF you are right.[/color][color="#FF0000"][/color]
[/quote]
Not sure where you see us backing down. Was left to protect us. This was his choice. We were arguing with VE right up to him posting this.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Jewelangel' timestamp='1292077196' post='2536359']
Not sure where you see us backing down. Was left to protect us. This was his choice. We were arguing with VE right up to him posting this.
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]I don't let my freinds burn. TKTB is letting one of their members burn; for you guys, it's only a convienent excuse that he resigned.[/color]

[Rudolph]

[quote name='KingEd' timestamp='1292076744' post='2536355']Not really. He could have logged in and once he noticed the problem, notified VE Govt himself. This would have shown he wasn't trying to abuse the masking mistake.
[/quote]

Except VE didn't give him time to notify. When he tried to talk to VE, VE already were aiming their sights on Was. As to why he took time, I'm sure I'd be pretty shocked at the sheer incompetence of more than six months, being in another alliance and STILL not be demasked in that time period.

I know I would.

[Barix9]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1292077389' post='2536360']
[color="#FF0000"]I don't let my freinds burn. TKTB is letting one of their members burn; for you guys, it's only a convienent excuse that he resigned.[/color]
[/quote]

Why dont you go hang out by Hiro in the corner for irrelevant people who have no business being in this thread.

[President Hardin]

this is one of those times when we need a Wikileak of our own so we can see these alleged atrocities and back room spying logs..until then it's all speculation and accusations. as the axis of evil continues to flex its muscle once again, i wish ya good luck WasDrogan.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1292076490' post='2536352']
So you're never allowed to go visit the forums of a former alliance? interesting...
[/quote]

You know nothing of what took place. It wasn't a merely forum visit or a wrong forum mask. Try again though.

[DictatatorDan]

[quote name='Barix9' timestamp='1292077568' post='2536362']
Why dont you go hang out by Hiro in the corner for irrelevant people who have no business being in this thread.
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]*Melts into a steamy pile of ooze*
Alas, I have been vanquished by the "You are so irrelevant" argument. Congrats, You're a true WINNER!

Maybe I'll throw a straw man of my own.

If you dont like me, do something about it.[/color]

[Auctor]

sounds pretty lame on a lot of levels. Nice to see VE make their own CB's up for a change though.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1292065078' post='2536260']
Without making the case too specific to this incident, mask mistakes do get made, but people still get rolled for taking advantage of them and releasing confidential information.

It's not unsubstantiated and you know it – VE doesn't go around chasing ex-members for jollies and it's sad that it's come to this. It's an honourable move to make this decision yourself and let your alliance not have to.
[/quote]

yep, just ask NSO about a mask mistake. i could have sworn NSO's mask mistake made them laughed at, yet now we have VE making an even worse mask mistake (6 months compared to a couple of days) and all those who insulted NSO are saying that VE did nothing wrong. that is amusing. VE should probably admit they $%&@ed up and let Was go, especially since there would be no logs from a Skype Voice chat that could substantiate anything. so VE has no proof of this crime except for a he said, she said. what VE does have is a huge mistake in their masking methods. 6 months is a long time to leave someone masked. i have never known any alliance that incompetent.

[TheListener]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1292078180' post='2536366']
You know nothing of what took place. It wasn't a merely forum visit or a wrong forum mask. Try again though.
[/quote]

Very interesting, so you apparently know every bit of knowledge that I am in possession of? Sweet, I guess kriekfreak can read minds, wait this is something he shouldn't have and could exploit.

[color="#FF0000"]*TheListener[/color] goes to rally IAA behind the idea that kriekfreak is spying on IAA.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='TheListener' timestamp='1292079337' post='2536375']
Very interesting, so you apparently know every bit of knowledge that I am in possession of? Sweet, I guess kriekfreak can read minds, wait this is something he shouldn't have and could exploit.

[color="#FF0000"]*TheListener[/color] goes to rally IAA behind the idea that kriekfreak is spying on IAA.
[/quote]

hey now, stop using a VE-level bit of evidence to try and bully another alliance...

[Diomede]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1292078215' post='2536367']
[color="#FF0000"]*Melts into a steamy pile of ooze*
Alas, I have been vanquished by the "You are so irrelevant" argument. Congrats, You're a true WINNER!

Maybe I'll throw a straw man of my own.

If you dont like me, do something about it.[/color]
[/quote]
I'd really rather he didn't as it would mean I'd have to clean up your mess for you.

[Barix9]

[quote name='Diomede' timestamp='1292080135' post='2536381']
I'd really rather he didn't as it would mean I'd have to clean up your mess for you.
[/quote]


Fine Diomede, but only cause jewel <3 you.

[Ardus]

It's amusing that all the people ripping on VE for not corroborating enough only have details about this whole incident from people on "their side".

VE corroborated. It checked out. A masking error is not carte blanche to perform criminal acts against an alliance.

At this point, though, it's pretty clear TKTB condoned this individual's actions and should be held appropriately responsible, though I'm sure I'm in the minority position with that particular opinion. Oh well.

[berbers]

So Person X leaves Alliance Y.

Person X didn't get forum access removed from Alliance Y.

Alliance Y hears a rumor about Person X spying? or just visiting the forums? I'm a little foggy here, was there actual information stolen?

Alliance Y attacks Person X.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If a CIA employee left his job, and found out 6 months later he could still login to the secure server, decides to do so, takes information and gives it to the GRU or other opposing group, would he be at fault or would the CIA for not removing access? Is this the scenario?

Or


A CIA employee left his job, found out 6 months later he could still login to the secure server. Random other person calls the CIA and says "Your former employee stole information and gave it to the GRU", but there is no actual proof of theft of information. Is this the scenario?

Because I can't tell which of the above applies from the information in this thread, and it makes a big difference in how to view this situation.

[Ardus]

EDIT: I'll let VE determine how much information it gives instead of running in and doing things on their behalf.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Ardus

[Chimaera]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1292077389' post='2536360']
[color="#FF0000"]I don't let my freinds burn. TKTB is letting one of their members burn; for you guys, it's only a convienent excuse that he resigned.[/color]
[/quote]
Generally speaking, you don't let your entire alliance burn over allegations of transgressions by one member. It's called making the smart decision.

That's not what TKTB had to do here, since Was resigned on his own, but it's what any progressive-thinking alliance would do.

Of course, that doesn't address the actual matter at hand - did Was do anything wrong? This is a classic example of a "He Said; She Said" argument, and, frankly, I don't think that should ever be just cause for an attack.

Then again, this was never about TKTB or WasDrogan anyway, so that point is also irrelevant.

[TheListener]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1292081087' post='2536387']
It's amusing that all the people ripping on VE for not corroborating enough only have details about this whole incident from people on "their side".

VE corroborated. It checked out. A masking error is not carte blanche to perform criminal acts against an alliance.
[/quote]

You know, I'd love to say I'm not biased on the subject but I simply can't because I've only heard one side of the story, now is that my fault for not trying hard enough to hear what VE has to say? I don't think so because to be honest VE has really made no attempt at providing their side of the story. I really can't be unbiased until both sides provide their story.

[Audran]

It's quite hilarious how misinformed some people in this thread are. Do you really think we'd go after a former member who was well respected within the alliance without cause?

And before I get the expected "well then tell us the reason" response, it's not my decision to make. That being said, the reason is quite legitimate.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Audran

[Supa_Troop3r]

>So Person X leaves Alliance Y.
>Person X didn't get forum access removed from Alliance Y.
>Alliance Y accuses Person X of spying
> Person X throws down the call out
> ???????
> Profit


No point will be proven by this. As you said in the OP you're basically giving VE just want they wanted. So you're just being submissive to their will.. So I don't really see the point for this thread at all. Although, I don't see much point for most of the threads on this forum. Anyhoo.
Enjoy your day.

[Sigrun Vapneir]

[quote name='Audran' timestamp='1292082497' post='2536400']
It's quite hilarious how misinformed some people in this thread are. Do you really think we'd go after a former member who was well respected within the alliance without cause?
[/quote]

I would like to think not, but if I had to judge by the evidence before me...

[GulagArchipelago]

Good luck Was, cause u'll need it...

I think we can all agree that we're guilty before proven innocent.

[kerschbs]

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1292079087' post='2536372']
yep, just ask NSO about a mask mistake. i could have sworn NSO's mask mistake made them laughed at, yet now we have VE making an even worse mask mistake (6 months compared to a couple of days) and all those who insulted NSO are saying that VE did nothing wrong. that is amusing. VE should probably admit they $%&@ed up and let Was go, especially since there would be no logs from a Skype Voice chat that could substantiate anything. so VE has no proof of this crime except for a he said, she said. what VE does have is a huge mistake in their masking methods. 6 months is a long time to leave someone masked. i have never known any alliance that incompetent.
[/quote]

I agree with everything my ally has said here. I have a lot of respect for VE and their members, but I think you guys made a mistake here.

[kevin32891]

Another war averted on Bob .

[quote name='Barix9' timestamp='1292077568' post='2536362']
Why dont you go hang out by Hiro in the corner for irrelevant people who have no business being in this thread.
[/quote]

Sorry sweetie once its on the OWF, its everyone's business.